Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

[fleur]

Is there a genuine reason why we are good against top 9 sides and average vs bad sides

The average sides tag Serong and sometimes Brayshaw too. Most of our losses were due largely to this. The better teams want to go head to head, and we beat them

 

[DocT]

We were flat in the first and it is tempting to blame JLo. And he has form in this area.
And yet I think we need to back off.
I genuinely think Carlton came out hard.
I also think all teams can get caught out no matter how good they are. The measure is how they respond. And we responded.
And the irrefutable fact is that we are young and a degree of inconsistency comes with that territory.

 

[JunglistPosse]

The average sides tag Serong and sometimes Brayshaw too. Most of our losses were due largely to this. The better teams want to go head to head, and we beat them

Spot on

 

[Bicco]

Been arguing with them for weeks that he isn’t all that good.

You've done a bloody good job too.
Pity that you're wrong.

 

[Freo Shark]

You still going the early crow you may be vindicated in the end i still don’t think he’s a premiership coach.

Take the next step fwd and ask....can we afford to wait to find out or do we go the Ross the Boss route and be ruthless.

 

[Troy Cooked It]

Absolute shambles some of the mental states of some of the posters in here trying to be the first to remind everyone of their superior knowledge. Back in the clown car for next week.

• 14 wins with 3 to play
• 10 from the last 11(!)
• Best record against the top 9
• Only one loss at home all year
• 4 from 5 comeback wins from being down at 3 qtr time
• Winning in the wet
• Changing momentum mid game

If flags are the goal, then let the man cook with this list he has moulded because we want for nothing but maturity and experience and that just comes with time.

 

[Ghost Pig]

Absolute shambles some of the mental states of some of the posters in here trying to be the first to remind everyone of their superior knowledge. Back in the clown car for next week.

• 14 wins with 3 to play
• 10 from the last 11(!)
• Best record against the top 9
• Only one loss at home all year
• 4 from 5 comeback wins from being down at 3 qtr time
• Winning in the wet
• Changing momentum mid game

If flags are the goal, then let the man cook with this list he has moulded because we want for nothing but maturity and experience and that just comes with time.

Excuse you! Terse compliments through gritted teeth are preferred in this thread, please and thankyou!!

 

[rgauci]

Can someone let him know that a starting Jackson in the centre square against fresh bonafide ruckman is a recipe for disaster. Happened in the derby we lost last year, or the year before when Bailey Williams went berserk on Jackson and we had Sean Darcy

4

Sean Darcy

Age

27

Ht

203cm

Wt

111kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

3.4

1star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

2.4

4star

HO

28.8

5star

D

6.8

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

4.8

3star

CL

1.8

4star

HO

20.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

6.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

32.0

5star

sitting on the pine.

Rinse / repeat same shit today. Except Darcy was forward which is pretty useless.

I said to my cousin, start Darcy ruck and Jackson rover opposed to Cripps. Luckily we found the right matchups eventually.

 

[Purple Suit]

Absolute shambles some of the mental states of some of the posters in here trying to be the first to remind everyone of their superior knowledge. Back in the clown car for next week.

• 14 wins with 3 to play
• 10 from the last 11(!)
• Best record against the top 9
• Only one loss at home all year
• 4 from 5 comeback wins from being down at 3 qtr time
• Winning in the wet
• Changing momentum mid game

If flags are the goal, then let the man cook with this list he has moulded because we want for nothing but maturity and experience and that just comes with time.

It’s been slim pickings for the negative Nellie’s of late. They need to throw stones the second we get behind or they won’t get the chance by the end of the game.

If Jlo gets all the blame for a slow start he needs all the credit for turning them around. Well Done.

 

[anchor man]

And to top it all off to those pi55ed off that he is coaching so well, he handled his presser today magnificently.
To the knocker of Jackson starting at first bounce, I think you will find that Carlton started with De Koning as their starter. A leaper, like Jackson. He , at the start would have leapt all over Darcy. Darcy took Pitonett and won out handsomely.
Horses for courses.

 

[13then7]

Yep. As I’ve said - each week he wins, he gets closer to the pass mark to get another season… not over the line yet.

But let’s be real here. That’s about 1% of what you’ve said. You throw that comment in occasionally to save face.

You have been sniping this man’s job since round 5 or so. Relentlessly!

The players were sloppy and disinterested for the first half today. I’m sure you think it was bad coaching and the players turned it around despite the coaches best efforts?

I will give you credit though, you’re consistent.

 

[anchor man]

Nicks? Technically 5 years no finals and got a 6th, compared to JL 5 years 1 final so it’s a pretty good comparison. Both made finals once in 6 years if we miss this year.

Anyway, doesn’t matter what I think. All the talk from those in charge have made it pretty clear that JL isn’t going anywhere.

Didn't both Nicks and Longmuir start the same year! The covid year.

 

[largebus]

Darcy said he gave them a massive spray at HT:

“That first quarter and first half was some of the worst footy we’ve played in a little bit.

“We’ve got to start games better than we did.

“We got a spray which was deserving.

“I think everyone knew what we were expecting because we were playing poorly.

“I don’t mind a spray – I grew up with Ross Lyon. I can deal with a spray every now and then."

 

[swanny1234]

You've done a bloody good job too.
Pity that you're wrong.

If we win a final, I’ll happily admit I was wrong, until then…

 

[rgauci]

And to top it all off to those pi55ed off that he is coaching so well, he handled his presser today magnificently.
To the knocker of Jackson starting at first bounce, I think you will find that Carlton started with De Koning as their starter. A leaper, like Jackson. He , at the start would have leapt all over Darcy. Darcy took Pitonett and won out handsomely.
Horses for courses.

We don’t have a good matchup for Cripps, we tried JOM early which didn’t work. Brayshaw, Serong had turns. Cripps loves playing on small midfielders, Matt Johnson is injured and would of provided resistance.

We needed to start with Jackson by his side. Jackson is big enough to rattle him. De Koning was jumping all over Jackson early anyway.

Before the ball was bounced Jackson was always Cripps best matchup. Cripps is terrible defensively, he leaves the other midfielders to do the defensive stuff. It left Jackson to run free and impact our transition game immensely. Jackson getting 27 disposals is his highest tally for the year. The other Carlton mids wouldn’t stand a chance against Jackson in transition.

I’m not saying Longmuir coached poorly, flipping JOM to Hewett was a master stroke and turned the game. Jackson to Cripps was obvious and should have been the plan from the outside. JOM, Brayshaw, Serong would predictably get owned.

 

[ImperialPurple]

I have stayed out of this thread and kept my mouth shut because, you know, 9 of the last 10 and all that, with some very good wins among that. He’s proven he’s not shit, and I had really really hoped I was wrong, but he’s just not the one to take us all the way. I still really really hope I’m wrong but my gut has been telling me all along that he ain’t it.

Prove me wrong JL, pleeeaaase prove me wrong

Humble pie. He proved me wrong today. Let’s hope he continues to prove me wrong. He was one of my favourite players in his day, I want him to be my favourite ever coach. Come on JL, say ‘suck shit’ to me for doubting you.

 

[Lach72]

Reasonably happy with the improvement.

Still very young.

 

[swanny1234]

Humble pie. He proved me wrong today. Let’s hope he continues to prove me wrong. He was one of my favourite players in his day, I want him to be my favourite ever coach. Come on JL, say ‘suck shit’ to me for doubting you.

I'll be the happiest person on the planet if he proves me wrong and wins a flag - I'll probably go on a month long bender and say JLo is my favourite person on the planet (sorry in advance to my girlfriend - she's already second to Pat Voss), but until we get to that point, I'm still a doubter and will eat all the humble pie if we keep winning. Freo has scarred me I think, and every time we play a bad half like yesterday, I catastrophise and think we'll see a repeat of the Essendon game last year or the St Kilda game.

 

[fleur]

Freo fans:

 

[jusjoshin]

Is there a genuine reason why we are good against top 9 sides and average vs bad sides

Yes. We have two distinct game styles. The "chip around in the back half and switch from side to side trying to push up a wing" mode, and the "attacking direct up the corridor" mode. We tend to only switch into the second mode when we need to (either when we are behind or are against better teams) as it is very physically taxing. It is the reason we aren't blowing the bottom teams away like Geelong, Adelaide and Hawthorn do, but also the reason we aren't limping towards September, fatigued and crippled by injuries like we have been under previous coaches like Ross Lyon and Chris Connelly. The amount of travel we do compared to most of the league means we can't play an aggressive style all season.

 

[Docker82]

Can someone let him know that a starting Jackson in the centre square against fresh bonafide ruckman is a recipe for disaster. Happened in the derby we lost last year, or the year before when Bailey Williams went berserk on Jackson and we had Sean Darcy sitting on the pine.

Rinse / repeat same shit today. Except Darcy was forward which is pretty useless.

I said to my cousin, start Darcy ruck and Jackson rover opposed to Cripps. Luckily we found the right matchups eventually.

Darcy is still able to contribute so I won't say this anymore but earlier in the year I'd honestly say why is Darcy playing if Jackson the no.1 ruck? Seeing Jackson as the no.1 when Reidy was in the team was downright dumb imo.

I still reckon Darcy is our best ruck and Jackson is better off utilised elsewhere until Darcy needs a rest.

 

[mattis117]

You still going the early crow you may be vindicated in the end i still don’t think he’s a premiership coach.

I'm going no crow buddy, that was you.

 

[ubiquitous226]

Yes. We have two distinct game styles. The "chip around in the back half and switch from side to side trying to push up a wing" mode, and the "attacking direct up the corridor" mode. We tend to only switch into the second mode when we need to (either when we are behind or are against better teams) as it is very physically taxing. It is the reason we aren't blowing the bottom teams away like Geelong, Adelaide and Hawthorn do, but also the reason we aren't limping towards September, fatigued and crippled by injuries like we have been under previous coaches like Ross Lyon and Chris Connelly. The amount of travel we do compared to most of the league means we can't play an aggressive style all season.

We haven't been switching that much this year, and we seemed to barely use that option yesterday.
Carlton did well to close off short outlets coming out of D50 and we seemed to take the long kick consistently.

The biggest change I saw was to move more towards a territory game instead of over-possessing it.
In the first couple of quarters, particularly the first, I was yelling just get it forward, it wasn't that wet but we were being pressured into dumb things.
There's always a risk of more intercepts doing that, but we let our forwards get to work and it was a lot more successful.

 

[Duz97]

We haven't been switching that much this year, and we seemed to barely use that option yesterday.
Carlton did well to close off short outlets coming out of D50 and we seemed to take the long kick consistently.

The biggest change I saw was to move more towards a territory game instead of over-possessing it.
In the first couple of quarters, particularly the first, I was yelling just get it forward, it wasn't that wet but we were being pressured into dumb things.
There's always a risk of more intercepts doing that, but we let our forwards get to work and it was a lot more successful.

The words that stick into my head is brayshaws post match from a couple of weeks ago
“ we have a lot of surprises but we are saving that for September”
Could we have other styles of play that we Just haven’t seen yet and we are going at 80-90%

 

[ignoramus]

Yes. We have two distinct game styles. The "chip around in the back half and switch from side to side trying to push up a wing" mode, and the "attacking direct up the corridor" mode. We tend to only switch into the second mode when we need to (either when we are behind or are against better teams) as it is very physically taxing. It is the reason we aren't blowing the bottom teams away like Geelong, Adelaide and Hawthorn do, but also the reason we aren't limping towards September, fatigued and crippled by injuries like we have been under previous coaches like Ross Lyon and Chris Connelly. The amount of travel we do compared to most of the league means we can't play an aggressive style all season.

I wanna leapfrog off this comment to maybe start a more nuanced discussion of how we go about it. I agree with the observation about reserving energy by not going all out all the time, but I think the “two distinct styles” comment doesn’t do justice to the dynamism of the “game plan” (quotation marks because I feel the whole idea of a game plan is misleading to the extent it suggests a simple set of directives to be followed consistently throughout the game) both across a game and across the season.

For starters, the so-called game plan has shifted and developed quite a bit across the season. E.g. we’ve hardly been switching lately. Whether that’s because the oppo has been conceding the short kick, or indicative of a deliberate change in strategy is up for debate. I tend to feel that we’ve been playing what the oppo give us, rather than following some “chip-chip game plan”. Also: remember all the angst at the start of the season about how our handball game can’t stand up to elite pressure? There’s been a lot less of that that lately (first half against Carlton, notwithstanding).

Another thing is that the two distinct styles you’ve identified both relate to possession strategies, in the sense of what to do when we have the ball. There’s also different styles or strategies of play without the ball, and different stoppage strategies. E.g. for a few weeks there we were playing much more one-on-one (e.g. Hawthorn, if my memory serves), and/or zoning only for specific scenarios (e.g. kick out, wing stoppages?).

Identifying differences in stoppage strategy (beyond differences in personnel) is a bit beyond me, but I think in any case they might be a bit more reactive in the sense of being ad hoc solutions to problems encountered as the game unfolds. Hence why we sometimes seem to be getting beat in stoppages early, but then turn it around — which potentially tests the argument that Longmuir is not a good game day coach, and offers another reaon why we don’t smash “lesser” teams from the get go.

The clichéd ways of putting it is either having “a Plan B” or throwing “the magnets” around, though to my mind the former phrase doesn’t capture the ad hoc nature of the adjustments while the later phrase makes it sound as though it’s all to do with personnel, when it’s probably as much if not more to do with positioning and decision making.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I don’t really know much about football so maybe others who have some inside knowledge of semi-professional football can clean up some of my clumsiness. A lot has been made of a change in style since the Saints loss — but is it as wholesale as all that? It feels like we are getting to the point where we can be more flexible and adaptable, adjusting (whether from the get go, or at a certain point in the game) to what the oppo is doing but without threatening team cohesion.