Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVIII

[Aphrodite]

#BUMP from February


Re: 'Alleged' rumours resurfacing ...

Folks, this is the way things are here.

Posters are responsible for what they post. Moderators can not attest to the accuracy or otherwise of any rumour posted.

Moderators will intervene for a couple of reasons.

1. If a thread is threatening to be derailed because of a post.

2. If invested parties request the removal of material.

None of this draws a conclusion as to the accuracy or otherwise of the original post.

There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.

Also, you need to remember that this thread like all parts of this forum is bound by the rules of poster conduct. If you want to express skepticism towards a rumour that's fine, but having a crack at posters who are contributors to this forum is simply not on and will be acted upon.

Simply put, don't be a dick.

Thanks all!

 

[Dramoth]

Cripps is not going to wc, people have the right to be sceptical and his trade suggestion was mediocre.

As a critic of the rumour myself please show me where I unfairly attacked him.

Nothing has been corroborated same with the Charlie curnow rumour.
The player himself squashed it.

I think might be me they’re talking about.

 

[Own The Future]

Cripps is not going to wc, people have the right to be sceptical and his trade suggestion was mediocre.

As a critic of the rumour myself please show me where I unfairly attacked him.

Nothing has been corroborated same with the Charlie curnow rumour.
The player himself squashed it.

Just to play devil’s advocate - history is filled with players who dispelled rumours of wanting to leave during the year and ended up requesting a trade that same offseason.
While I’m glad Charlie said what he did, I think there is too much smoke to dispel the idea completely.
I don’t want 5+ of our best players to leave at once - but I also don’t want a list packed with guys who don’t want to be there.
Stating the obvious but this is gonna be a wild offseason.

 

[entitled supporters]

I think it's going to be a wild off season in the minds of some people who have agendas.Trade these good players, easy to say, tell us who replaces them so we don't expect any improvement for another 5 years waiting to see if their replacements are any good

 

[Garters]

Given the amount of time spent on the park, I'd say Haynes has had a better year than Jsos.

Yep Haynes has been our best backman this year by a long way, will finishe top 5 B&F. Weiters way off his best but still 2nd best by a long stretch. JSOS was good in the dozen or so games but can't do much playing half a season each year. Cripps rumour, (not that I think it would materialise) yet if a mature conversation is to be had then there is huge potential for Cripps to leave an enduring legacy through what we get back in return and he gets to enjoy his final years home well deserved. Sounds ok to me.

 

[Treesloth]

Cripps is not going to wc, people have the right to be sceptical and his trade suggestion was mediocre.

As a critic of the rumour myself please show me where I unfairly attacked him.

Nothing has been corroborated same with the Charlie curnow rumour.
The player himself squashed it.

Charlie wants out? Really?
Don’t believe everything you hear.

You are not exactly painting a very good picture of knowing what your talking about.

The post I responded to wasn’t about Cripps leaving it was about what you suggested was his trade value which again doesn’t paint a very good picture.
If you for one moment thinks we would trade Crippa for a mid 1st rounder, if WC even have 1 then I suggest you do some homework.

You are mistaken if you think I’m upset with the rumour, but yeah I think it’s rubbish.
If you think me calling you out for your trade suggestion is being a dick so be it.
Why don’t you make a poll and see how many Carlton supporters would agree with you that Cripps with 2 years left on his contract is worth a mid first rounder in what is regarded as a pretty weak draft?

That’s not homework! That’s just adding 1+1 and getting 3.
Under no circumstances are we contractually obliged to let him go for a mid first round pick in a shallow draft.
What do you mean happy to be proven wrong? Not the way I would have worded it if I was passing on a rumour.

Not the most mature set of responses Lily.

Again, get that you disagree with info and my opinion on the potential trade value (and I’m not the only one on this thread who has the view that we wouldn’t get the farm for him).

But you could have respectfully made those points without the snark. I just shared what I’d heard because I trusted it and thought it was important and relevant to where we’re at as a club.

Can do without the “don’t believe everything you hear” and “do your homework” and “you’re not painting a very good picture of what you’re talking about” stuff. Not to mention blatantly ignoring that several in the media have the Charlie story and that Houston flat denied his interest in moving last year before ending up at Collingwood anyway.

The whole point of being discretionary in what I share is a quite literally don’t believe everything I hear. That’s why I filter it out and share the stuff I do think has merit.

Anyway, we move on. Time will tell if a potential trade comes and what it looks like and if it doesn’t happen then at least you’ll actually have a good reason to sink the boot in.

 

[DollarsandSense]

This is going to be a VERY long 4 months isn’t it……….

 

[raymagoo]

Booth 3 at the physio's in Port Melbourne. Those walls are hellishly thin.

I miss poomonkey

 

[raymagoo]

Cripps’ only possible destination are the eagles couldn’t possibly fit in freos midfield.

There's room if they give us young

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Taken me a while [might be the slow one here] but I think i have a handle on the 'something wrong' and 'players not happy' thing.

The players HAD real connection with each other and believed they could do something special together. But I think, they have slowly lost faith in the club to put them in a position to deliver. I do wonder if asked, 'has the club done absolutely everything to go all out for a premiership' they would respond emphatically 'NO'. Instead they will feel they have been let down and concluding the club didnt believe in us.

Whether that is trading for young talent, trading out heart and soul players. Not investing in an A grade footy program.

Look I am piecing this together from what I have read, i am not itk but that's my hypothesis.

Well, maybe those big names looking to get out should look at their bank balances and come to the realisation that the club put an extraordinary amount of faith in them and has paid them accordingly which has significantly hamstrung the ability of the club to bring in better depth.

Maybe if they hadn’t have been so flipping flaky over the last 6+ years we could have got players coming in at less than market rate.

It’s been plainly obvious to me over the last 3 offseasons that there’s “no cash here” to spend and have been quietly reshaping the list profile via the draft because we had to.

Where’s all the cash tied up? Some of them need to look in the mirror and take some accountability.

 

[dangertroy]

There's room if they give us young

Nice, because we've generally got space in the rehab group...

 

[Coops93]

I’m absolutely loving some of the reasoning being used at the moment

Get an experienced head coach? That worked well for us last time

Keep the current coach? That worked well for us last time

Bring in a highly rated assistant from a successful club? That worked well for us last time

So basically whatever we do next must not have been tried by any football club since 1890 for some to be happy

Similarly the idea of bringing in a big name or someone with a great resume is just trying to find the next messiah.

But if it's someone unknown it's no one wants to come to Carlton right now.

There's actually nothing that can be done if you were to listen to the fans. Might as well pack it in now.

 

[raymagoo]

People don't want our stars to go. We've had Brownlow's, Coleman's, AA's They're top end players but we've never gotten close. Why?? Clearly some issues with the playing group. If they want out we let them go. A refresh will help, it's not going to be a rebuild. Build the culture we need with players, coaches & club.

Love crippa but we owe it to him if he wants out. People in here are so stubborn & biased. Cripps & curnow aren't going to be here for a flag so we work the list for people that can be.

Watch the same olds thumbs down

 

[lily of laguna]

Not the most mature set of responses Lily.

Again, get that you disagree with info and my opinion on the potential trade value (and I’m not the only one on this thread who has the view that we wouldn’t get the farm for him).

But you could have respectfully made those points without the snark. I just shared what I’d heard because I trusted it and thought it was important and relevant to where we’re at as a club.

Can do without the “don’t believe everything you hear” and “do your homework” and “you’re not painting a very good picture of what you’re talking about” stuff. Not to mention blatantly ignoring that several in the media have the Charlie story and that Houston flat denied his interest in moving last year before ending up at Collingwood anyway.

The whole point of being discretionary in what I share is a quite literally don’t believe everything I hear. That’s why I filter it out and share the stuff I do think has merit.

Anyway, we move on. Time will tell if a potential trade comes and what it looks like and if it doesn’t happen then at least you’ll actually have a good reason to sink the boot in.

I apologise if you feel I have “sunk the boots in” and when Cripps and Charlie are blues players next season I will not be seeking to gloat or point it out, I m not the type to carry on like that.

 

[lily of laguna]

Just to play devil’s advocate - history is filled with players who dispelled rumours of wanting to leave during the year and ended up requesting a trade that same offseason.
While I’m glad Charlie said what he did, I think there is too much smoke to dispel the idea completely.
I don’t want 5+ of our best players to leave at once - but I also don’t want a list packed with guys who don’t want to be there.
Stating the obvious but this is gonna be a wild offseason.

Yes there are examples of players casting doubt on rumours only to end up moving on, but plenty more of scuttlebut not eventuating too.
I’m excited to see what unfolds in the off season, we are all crying out for changes, and seems there will be a few!

 

[Treesloth]

People don't want our stars to go. We've had Brownlow's, Coleman's, AA's They're top end players but we've never gotten close. Why?? Clearly some issues with the playing group. If they want out we let them go. A refresh will help, it's not going to be a rebuild. Build the culture we need with players, coaches & club.

Love crippa but we owe it to him if he wants out. People in here are so stubborn & biased. Cripps & curnow aren't going to be here for a flag so we work the list for people that can be.

Watch the same olds thumbs down

Nailed it. And re Crippa - it simply doesn’t pass the pub test to lean back on the old “he’s contracted” schtick in the hope of receiving a king’s ransom.

That position is too soulless and tone deaf for a player and person who has given us everything and may want to go home for family (or similar) reasons. And god knows does this club need to rediscover its soul.

Some players simply earn the right to have those decisions supported by their incumbent clubs and he’s one of them. No matter how much we as fans may hate it.

 

[CoM]

Geez mate…

I don’t have insights on what the process was but if that’s what McRae went through then it’s reasonable to assume the other candidates, including Voss, did that as well.

All I’m saying is I trust my mail that Voss didn’t impress GW for his part. Whether that has any bearing on his survival now, who can say?

All the applicants that impressed received 2nd interviews, Voss interviewed that poorly that he did not…

 

[Blue By Blood]

People don't want our stars to go. We've had Brownlow's, Coleman's, AA's They're top end players but we've never gotten close. Why?? Clearly some issues with the playing group. If they want out we let them go. A refresh will help, it's not going to be a rebuild. Build the culture we need with players, coaches & club.

Love crippa but we owe it to him if he wants out. People in here are so stubborn & biased. Cripps & curnow aren't going to be here for a flag so we work the list for people that can be.

Watch the same olds thumbs down

Is there cleary issues with those guys though? I don't buy that.

Is it that we've maybe had some really poor coaches? A washed up Malthouse, a stubborn Bolton with a very young list (see Tuohy talking about him), the Teague train who valued all out attack at the expense of having any form of defence, or Vossy who values contested ball above all else in an era where it's lost a lot of its importance and we play whack-a-mole with a different area of weakness each year. Not 4 coaches that instill much faith- that's just my opinion.. 4 poor choices. Or maybe it's that we haven't had a deep enough squad to help out our stars? Is it that we've been smashed by injury worse than any team these past 5 years?

Or maybe it's a combination of all of the points mentioned above. My opinion is that we haven't given this list the best chance of success and have let our star players down rather than them being the issue. I mean what more could they have done.. leading goal kickers, Brownlow's.. they've held up their end of the bargain. I appreciate different view points but genuinely I feel like we've bungled the talent we had/have.

I'm also in the camp where I don't think it's time to let our stars walk. We don't need a full rebuild. We need some savvy list management and we can contend again before their time is up. We need to inject some pace and smarts around the ball and they don't need to be stars. Cripps and Hewett feeding the ball out to a guy like Campbell from Sydney just as an example, maybe even Florent would make a big difference. Get a few role players who can hit up our forwards. Teach proper leading patterns and connection with the mids- this comes down to a well drilled game plan. And hunting for a small forward with genuine natural forward smarts. None of this should require us to sell the farm.

Just look at the Freo game this week past. We dominated that game early days as we have many times this year. Even hitting up the short kick into the 50. When we get our game going our best is almost unmatched. We were flat out bullying Freo. But we lack the ability to play that for 4 quarters, which is why we need to construct a game plan that allows us to generate easier goals. This also requires some savvy list management. A significant change to our fitness regime focusing on 'explosion and power' has in my opinion impacted out ability to run out games as well as we should. The human body can take some time to adapt to a new regime especially when it's a big shift in methodology.

But the bottom line is that we don't need to ship off our stars. In fact we should be supporting them with a better coach/game plan and a few more role players that can actually run and kick. I genuinely believe this can be turned around quickly and that said stars still have time to contend with us. Cowan, Moir, Carroll, HOF, Jagga is a nice batch of youth to support our experienced guys and Dean and Walker coming in over the coming years. We can turn it around quickly. Whether we will or not is the big question.

 

[ferrisb]

This is going to be a VERY long 4 months isn’t it……….

Can't be as long as the last four months...

 

[thegreatbeast]

Can't be as long as the last four months...

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the last 4 months is going to be as long as the next 4 months.

I am a bit of a maths genius if I do say so myself.

 

[Walshy_The_Goat]

Voss will go. Won't be the coach in 2026.

Thank **** for that! Zero chance he survives after the putrid season we have had and the fact his gameplan, stubborness and unwillingness to adapt a new setup is one of the prime causes for the sides decline (mind you, the same thing happened in 2023 before his job was on the line and only then he adjusted, but stubbornly went back to that same setup since).

 

[TENACIOUS]

The melts are entertaining…

If any player wants to go, let them! We’ll get adequately compensated and the sun will still come up tomorrow.

I see it as a positive, allows us to cherry pick the competition, for players to make us better.

The top teams continue to improve their lists each year through FA, trade or draft.

Where we’ve been hampered through salary cap constraints and forced to stick to the draft and low end trades. Which has caught up to us.

If we can nail trade period I could see us bouncing back in 2026.

 

[GT619]

I'd add Phillips as cheap backup. He's huge for the VFL side, a real general.

I would to as a stop gap

 

[NYCFC]

I really couldn't give two stuffs about any player who wants to leave, leaving. I get that little kids will be devastated if their favorite player goes, but this club can't succeed if it's all about coddling our 'important' players at the expense of fostering an absolutely team-first culture.

But what has me utterly deflated right now is seeing kids like Jagger and HOF, who genuinely want to be here and are a big part of our future, going down with ACLs.

Has a club ever had their first two draft picks in any draft go down with season-ending knees at the beginning of their careers?

 

[HalloweenJack]

The melts are entertaining…

If any player wants to go, let them! We’ll get adequately compensated and the sun will still come up tomorrow.

I see it as a positive, allows us to cherry pick the competition, for players to make us better.

The top teams continue to improve their lists each year through FA, trade or draft.

Where we’ve been hampered through salary cap constraints and forced to stick to the draft and low end trades. Which has caught up to us.

If we can nail trade period I could see us bouncing back in 2026.

The melts are entertaining but do you really believe that Carlton can actually pick the right players whether that be by trading or draft.

Our history is dotted with a failure to attract and secure good trades or overpay or make the wrong trade (see Judd where we should have kept Kennedy and let go of the number 1 pick). Apart from the 2015 draft we've failed with the majority of our picks (the last few drafts are still indeterminate).

I personally have no confidence that we will get it right which is a pity because after we thrashed Collingwood in round 3, 2012 I was very optimistic about the future.

 

[BlueTang]

If Cripps wants to get back to WA I am all for it and would still love the bloke. Has been an absolute champion of our club.
I think we made a misstep focusing on a perfect spine for the team, I like Adelaide’s approach, just get in the best forward group possible and a premium mid to kick it to them (Dawson). The rest of the side is hoping for the best draft and trade wise. But it seems getting the forward mix right was their priority and it looks to be paying off for them