List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[Joffaboy]

To build a winning culture a team needs to win close games

 

[TheJackal]

Given the signing and the big deal about today’s open training I’m surprised I’ve heard nothing about it.

Did anyone get along?

Anyway there’s this

I was there, basic session but really positive vibe, players all in good spirits and honestly, it felt a little weird considering we aren't in the finals. Real sense of hope and celebration amongst supporters, the Nas thing is massive I don't think I'veseen a re-signing quite luke it.

Windy was a standout from an effort point of view, he was really upbeat, if he doesn't stay its not through lack of interest in the club or teammates.

- Unfortunately McLennan is on borrowed time, definitely not up to the standard.

- Heath has improved a huge amount even from the start to the end of this season. It's just his fluidity and being able to hit up teammates when switching it (for example) is much improved.

- Dodson, he is an absolute beauty. Jones calling him a peanut a few times was rich considering, well, Jones... I dont think he gets another contract.

- I still really rate Said, he is all class on the training track. His VFL performances have been underwhelming but I'm still super hopeful.

- I fear he wont, but I really hope Carroll gets another year and a full preseason. That feeling in the guts is that he is going to be the hard luck story - I hope I'm wrong. He has that step, left boot and turn of speed that can do some real damage.

- Arie, his weapon is too valuable to give up on. Personally, worth trying to make work if not for an investment point of view with Tassie. He didn't have his best session.

- Keels, so happy he got an extra year. Just needs to build his size and not be pushed around. His running is fine (actually above average for his size) but too often looks cooked due to the physical nature of his role.

- Webster, I get the feeling he wont be putting his hand up to retire. Kicking was Nas like elite levels today. Might not get a contract, but didn't train like someone counting down the days until retirement.

- Boyd/Byrnes, not there but you'd imagine Boyd's gone and Byrnes unlucky but could be gone - sort of like Paton last year, limited footballer not taking us to promised lands.

- Again, didn't see any injured players signing autographs at the end, so no Max King again. Its just a small thing but for engagement I wish the injured guys still had a presence.

- Not training related but I wanted to mention Finchers game on the weekend. I feel like its been overlooked somewhat. He looked every part a first rounder, especially in this cooked draft. I hope I'm wrong and he goes after pick 36, but his tackling, kicking, decision making etc was as good as I've seen for an U18 kid at Sandy.

 

[Parkysp]

Kick ins were so boring without Doogs!

I'll go against a grain here but Sincs kick ins have done my head in nearly equally. He is a much slower player at that point than he is getting the ball as the 2nd or 3rd in the chain.

It's nearly become a specialist position in the AFL. In NFL terms it's the one time you have guaranteed ball in hand. It will be interesting to see it's evolution as I think there it is still a bit untapped. Though I'm down on us in both aspects. When we have it or when we kick a point. I reckon our metres gained differential would be appalling.

 

[Saints4ever]

If Gawn says he believes TDK has the potential to be the best ruck in the league I’m going to listen to his opinion more than a bunch of saints nuffies on a fan forum.

No disrespect to us nuffies.

 

[Broski]

Which one of you fellas went around filming all the boys in the cafe today resulting in the most awkward vid ive ever seen

Oh boy that was an incredibly tough watch

 

[Diehard Saint]

Another wash, a DFA, that was picked up by our club and not only has significantly contributed on field but has been fantastic for the kids coming through. A thorough clubman and I hope he stays at the club in some capacity after his playing days.
Shoutout to his partner as well who has opened her house to teenage kids, would be like herding cats.

I believe the Box is staying with Stocker. Another excellent role model.

 

[Remboy]

I was there, basic session but really positive vibe, players all in good spirits and honestly, it felt a little weird considering we aren't in the finals. Real sense of hope and celebration amongst supporters, the Nas thing is massive I don't think I'veseen a re-signing quite luke it.

Windy was a standout from an effort point of view, he was really upbeat, if he doesn't stay its not through lack of interest in the club or teammates.

- Unfortunately McLennan is on borrowed time, definitely not up to the standard.

- Heath has improved a huge amount even from the start to the end of this season. It's just his fluidity and being able to hit up teammates when switching it (for example) is much improved.

- Dodson, he is an absolute beauty. Jones calling him a peanut a few times was rich considering, well, Jones... I dont think he gets another contract.

- I still really rate Said, he is all class on the training track. His VFL performances have been underwhelming but I'm still super hopeful.

- I fear he wont, but I really hope Carroll gets another year and a full preseason. That feeling in the guts is that he is going to be the hard luck story - I hope I'm wrong. He has that step, left boot and turn of speed that can do some real damage.

- Arie, his weapon is too valuable to give up on. Personally, worth trying to make work if not for an investment point of view with Tassie. He didn't have his best session.

- Keels, so happy he got an extra year. Just needs to build his size and not be pushed around. His running is fine (actually above average for his size) but too often looks cooked due to the physical nature of his role.

- Webster, I get the feeling he wont be putting his hand up to retire. Kicking was Nas like elite levels today. Might not get a contract, but didn't train like someone counting down the days until retirement.

- Boyd/Byrnes, not there but you'd imagine Boyd's gone and Byrnes unlucky but could be gone - sort of like Paton last year, limited footballer not taking us to promised lands.

- Again, didn't see any injured players signing autographs at the end, so no Max King again. Its just a small thing but for engagement I wish the injured guys still had a presence.

- Not training related but I wanted to mention Finchers game on the weekend. I feel like its been overlooked somewhat. He looked every part a first rounder, especially in this cooked draft. I hope I'm wrong and he goes after pick 36, but his tackling, kicking, decision making etc was as good as I've seen for an U18 kid at Sandy.

I agree on Carroll. The times I've been to training he always seems to look good. Moves well, good evasion, good skills. I wouldn't mind him getting another year but there's going to be a real squeeze for spots and someone has to miss out.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Hopefully we’re having a very close look at Dylan Shields 🛡
We can finally get our man nice and cheap.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I was there, basic session but really positive vibe, players all in good spirits and honestly, it felt a little weird considering we aren't in the finals. Real sense of hope and celebration amongst supporters, the Nas thing is massive I don't think I'veseen a re-signing quite luke it.

Windy was a standout from an effort point of view, he was really upbeat, if he doesn't stay its not through lack of interest in the club or teammates.

- Unfortunately McLennan is on borrowed time, definitely not up to the standard.

- Heath has improved a huge amount even from the start to the end of this season. It's just his fluidity and being able to hit up teammates when switching it (for example) is much improved.

- Dodson, he is an absolute beauty. Jones calling him a peanut a few times was rich considering, well, Jones... I dont think he gets another contract.

- I still really rate Said, he is all class on the training track. His VFL performances have been underwhelming but I'm still super hopeful.

- I fear he wont, but I really hope Carroll gets another year and a full preseason. That feeling in the guts is that he is going to be the hard luck story - I hope I'm wrong. He has that step, left boot and turn of speed that can do some real damage.

- Arie, his weapon is too valuable to give up on. Personally, worth trying to make work if not for an investment point of view with Tassie. He didn't have his best session.

- Keels, so happy he got an extra year. Just needs to build his size and not be pushed around. His running is fine (actually above average for his size) but too often looks cooked due to the physical nature of his role.

- Webster, I get the feeling he wont be putting his hand up to retire. Kicking was Nas like elite levels today. Might not get a contract, but didn't train like someone counting down the days until retirement.

- Boyd/Byrnes, not there but you'd imagine Boyd's gone and Byrnes unlucky but could be gone - sort of like Paton last year, limited footballer not taking us to promised lands.

- Again, didn't see any injured players signing autographs at the end, so no Max King again. Its just a small thing but for engagement I wish the injured guys still had a presence.

- Not training related but I wanted to mention Finchers game on the weekend. I feel like its been overlooked somewhat. He looked every part a first rounder, especially in this cooked draft. I hope I'm wrong and he goes after pick 36, but his tackling, kicking, decision making etc was as good as I've seen for an U18 kid at Sandy.

Much appreciated Jackal

 

[Saints4ever]

I believe the Box is staying with Stocker. Another excellent role model.

I have absolutely no doubt Box is going to be an A grade mid.

No doubt at all.

 

[TheJackal]

I believe the Box is staying with Stocker. Another excellent role model.

Just on Stocker, I watched him a couple of weeks back working with a young defender not on our list. Im guessing he was a Sandy player. He stayed back after the main drills working with him one on one, not for hours but long enough to notice and for a senior player to give the time of day to an unknown is pretty big for me.

He is a different cat, but he is actually a proper natural leader.

 

[TheJackal]

I agree on Carroll. The times I've been to training he always seems to look good. Moves well, good evasion, good skills. I wouldn't mind him getting another year but there's going to be a real squeeze for spots and someone has to miss out.

If I could be at all critical of him, I dont think he arrived with the fitness expected of someone who had been in the system for 3 years already. He arrived at Carlton with wraps on his fitness, but when he arrived with us he looked to struggle to keep up with our intense preseason running.

Looked ripped, but was surprised with his running struggles. I've often thought about Carltons second half fadeouts and JCs fitness at the beginning thinking maybe it was a Carton thing - probably looking into it too much though.

That early conditioning could have had a bit to do with his injuries this year. Its a shame he got those injuries and never got to knock the door down early days.

Its going to be a really tight squeeze you are absolutely right. As long as Jones doesn't stay in place of him.

 

[TheJackal]

Further to my thoughts on our training, Wilson didn't exactly set things alight. Definitely second year blues for him. Lost pretty much every one on one contest against other mids.

His job as a second year player is to develop, but being trained as an inside mid isn't focussing on his strengths. I guess that's the point, to improve on weaknesses.

The worry is that we will Jack Billings

14

Jack Billings

Age

30

Ht

185cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

5.1

5star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

19.7

5star

K

11.7

5star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.7

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

2.3

4star

D

13.8

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

4.6

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

1.6

4star

CL

0.0

1star

him and not play him to his strengths, but plenty of years left before we worry about that.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

We might already have the KP back man in Keeler , with a full pre season in defense if TDK comes & Marshall stays with Dodson he becomes surplus as a ruck/Forward move him to defense, then go and get a pure VFL ruck to help Dodson at our reserve side.

Amazing how some have got Voss in their side for next year ahead of Stocker.

Johna Campigli as a small/medium forward rookied

Campigli 189cm, whatever you wanna call that

 

[Moquo]

Was a little bored this arvo so I googled how much tax do you have to pay on 2 million dollars.

The answer $860 000

Tax man is going to love Nas.

2? Wait until the sponsors wake up to him. He'll pay 2 in tax

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Jackson Voss instead of Stocker

Well may laugh or be bemused.
Voss from the time he started with Frankston fc, l noticed that he was often named in a back- pocket on the teamsheet. Not sure if he was B.P or H.B on game day.
Admittedly haven't seen enough of him.
This year he has played in the midfield & starred, a chance for the JJ Liston is it?
25 y.o with tidy ball disposal.
If we have interest in him, like some media states.
Then no reason why he couldn't usurp
Slow Stocker.

 

[thekizzler]

Link?

St Kilda Uncensored Facebook group.

You have to be part of the group to see it.

 

[sauce_head]

2? Wait until the sponsors wake up to him. He'll pay 2 in tax

It will be less once you take out the agents fees…

Some footy players also get special tax deductions! Yes that’s right, it’s because their careers are short and don’t have the same longevity as a “normal” career. Not sure if the case in Australia but is it (at least was) in the UK. It’s really more shopping for players domicile.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

We might already have the KP back man in Keeler , with a full pre season in defense if TDK comes & Marshall stays with Dodson he becomes surplus as a ruck/Forward move him to defense, then go and get a pure VFL ruck to help Dodson at our reserve side.

Amazing how some have got Voss in their side for next year ahead of Stocker.

Johna Campigli as a small/medium forward rookied

Not some, just me I think
I did pick Boxshall early in the phantom's for us last year.
Got a big head now!!!

 

[mad-saint-guy]

I'll give you the first two out of the generosity of my heart but you cannot possibly believe that Dan Butler is better than Liam Ryan

I didn't say Butler is better. Just said that Ryan is not better. They are the same age, same size, kick the same amount of goals and get the same amount of touches. Ryan slightly ahead in marks, Butler slightly ahead in pressure and tackles.

Ryan has more flashy highlights but his production is basically the same.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

I didn't say Butler is better. Just said that Ryan is not better. They are the same age, same size, kick the same amount of goals and get the same amount of touches. Ryan slightly ahead in marks, Butler slightly ahead in pressure and tackles.

Ryan has more flashy highlights but his production is basically the same.

Haven't seen Butler take a hanger.
Ryan regularly took them in his early years
Mark of the Year too, 2018?

 

[mad-saint-guy]

I'm just going to say is not about those guys being better than our players, it's about how do they make THE TEAM better.

I get the TDK doubt, that cash is alot (and imo inflated massively by the media). But TDK make us a better team, we are short, incredibly short, TDK and hopefully Marshall are incredibly mobile for big guys, I can easily see them being mobile CHF's, what we lack alot is a big guys helping with the bail out kick down the line, we rely on Ro and Wood more often than not. I don't see the risk.

Ross has repeatedly said Hammer is a FWD, regarless we need more tall defenders, ross utilised Dawson sucessfully in 2 teams that both made GF's. I'll back him again to do what he needs with Aleer, because if we can free up Wilkie, that makes the team better.

and Butler, as stavro#4 knows, I don't rate, purely on that he doesn't kick enough goals, pressure is pointless if you can't make your direct opponent accountable. I wish him well, but he doesn't do his primary role well enough.

not sure how Ryan goes crumbing, it's an obvious deficiency for our smalls, it's certainly a need.

I don't buy this "Hammer is a FWD" line of thinking. He's big and athletic but his footy IQ is low and he's a poor kick for goal. Simplifying the game by playing him in defence has made him look so much better, and he's benefit from a full pre season of actually training in defence.

If King gets fit, we recruit TDK and keep Marshall then there absolutely no room for Caminiti forward (alongside Sharman, Owens and even Wood).

Note that stav responded to your comment about Ryan with a highlights package from 2022. Next season is 2026

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Haven't seen Butler take a hanger.
Ryan regularly took them in his early years
Mark of the Year too, 2018?

So we're recruiting a 29 year old small forward because he used to take hangers back in 2018?

 

[akaifu]

I don't buy this "Hammer is a FWD" line of thinking. He's big and athletic but his footy IQ is low and he's a poor kick for goal. Simplifying the game by playing him in defence has made him look so much better, and he's benefit from a full pre season of actually training in defence.

If King gets fit, we recruit TDK and keep Marshall then there absolutely no room for Caminiti forward (alongside Sharman, Owens and even Wood).

Note that stav responded to your comment about Ryan with a highlights package from 2022. Next season is 2026

We haven't seen Caminiti play as a forward after his development in defence. Maybe his IQ/craft wouldve improved after playing on the competition's best forwards. We shouldn't conclude anything until we see him in the F50 for at least a few games

And his goalkicking isn't that bad - is actually quite good IIRC. Checked stats and its 4.1 for the year. 53.3% goal accuracy for his career. It's his field kicking/decision-making that is below average imo - and that doesn't matter as much in the forward half

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

So we're recruiting a 29 year old small forward because he used to take hangers back in 2018?

No, not what l implied
Down rover.
Just pointing out that he can take a hanger.
Butler can't or haven't seen one.