List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[MordySaint]

Justin Koschitzke was probably the greatest player in AFL history based on a run of form over a 6 week period. Every year he has a patch of form that makes you think he could be a superstar but so far he hasn't managed to make it last for more than a short period.

I loved Kosi so much ... still do.

His journey hasn’t been easy, but I truly wish him the very best for the future. He deserves all the good things in life—best wishes, superstar!

 

[SainterinSydney]

Carlton… the same club who has a thread with posts wanting and hoping for us to go out of business/be shut down.

The same club who tried to close our doors.

The same club who publicly attacked us during the Hamill saga.


Nah I’m good. ** them. ** their supporters and I hope TDK swings his **** at them for the duration of his contract

No mercy for Carlscum!

 

[11men1cup]

Do you think they're rattled?

 

[stavro#4]

Do you think they're rattled?

They have been rattled for months.

So many people asking why we need to get TDK when we have Marshall.

Fact: they rate TDK highly and this ****ing irks their fanbase.

It’s beautiful

 

[Sully111]

Just want to see Windy signed now.

 

[akaifu]

If anybody has cast an eye to the 2026 free agency pool... it is THIN

Walsh, B King and Butters.... nobody else really worth mentioning

TDK makes even more sense, we need to have a fair dinkum crack.

Bailey
Switkowski
Mitch Lewis (UFA)
Chandler
Ben Miller
Vlastuin
Amartey

All out of contract next year as free agents and can see a world where they are gettable. Other stars include guys like Buckley and Moore but they probs re-sign

 

[stavro#4]

Bailey
Switkowski
Mitch Lewis (UFA)
Chandler
Ben Miller
Vlastuin
Amartey

All out of contract next year as free agents and can see a world where they are gettable. Other stars include guys like Buckley and Moore but they probs re-sign

The only one I’d want from that list is Bailey and he is going to get paid.

 

[11men1cup]

They have been rattled for months.

So many people asking why we need to get TDK when we have Marshall.

Fact: they rate TDK highly and this ****ing irks their fanbase.

It’s beautiful

Imagine telling a Carlton fan in the 80s + 90s that they're losing a top 5 player because ST KILDA (of all clubs) are offering them more money

 

[PJays]

You are such a huge Roma fan, bet you haven’t compared Roma at TDKs age. (Hint it isn’t Roma who comes out on top).

Infact we all would have thought Roma was in the AA conversation last year. That Roma was only slightly better statistically than TDK this year - who you feel underwhelmed about.

If the trend of players completely buying into RTBs get the best out of yourself mantra continues with TDK we likely have the AA ruck of 2026 in TDK

This needs some unpacking.

Roma back in 2019- at the age of 23 - had a better year than TDK's best year to date. And TDK is 26.

So judging by "same age" Roma's the better player than TDK. Had achieved more at 26 than TDK currently has.

Roma's best seasons were immediately pre and post Ryder when he was sole #1 ruck - 2019, 2023 and 2024.

Obviously Roma turns 30 in a few months. He's 3.5 years older.

The questions for me are:

- Do we lose Roma if TDK comes?

- If we do, we're in the same position as the last 3 years since Ryder left- one quality #1 ruck, one older insurance option (Campbell/Boyd), and some kids. The only difference is- TDK replaces Roma, and the kids are a bit older and more ready than previously.

- Does TDK add much to what Roma's already doing?

- If we have a succession plan in place- Roma, onto Dodson/Heath/Keeler, do we need to fix what isn't broken?

- If we want ruck upgrades in the medium term- are there other options, eg a young player we can trade for (like Hickey or Longer years ago) or another free agent who's better value for money (either this year or wait another 12 months)

- Is TDK really worth an investment of the biggest contract in AFL history?

 

[Lightsxo]

We have a 2 year window with Nas right now.

Get TDK and don’t overthink things.

 

[Blended]

Do you think they're rattled?

That's a bit rich. They gloat abount winning 16 Flags paying above market rates to their entire list

 

[Pardon me]

Cook and Burke destroyed McKernan in the PF to get us in the GF.

We were on year 10 camp somewhere in Tasmania.
Half a dozen of us huddled around a tiny tv and one North supporting mate.
When that tackled got laid the room erupted and poor Johnno knew it was over for his kangas.
Good times.

 

[Off Stump 89]

In regards to TDK's drop of in form this year- in addition to his reported injury its worth remembering that most players don't continue to play exceptional football under that level of speculation and conjecture about contracts and their future. Just another reason that Nas has ice in his veins.

In saying that I'm hoping we manage to hold on to Roma

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

This needs some unpacking.

Roma back in 2019- at the age of 23 - had a better year than TDK's best year to date. And TDK is 26.

So judging by "same age" Roma's the better player than TDK. Had achieved more at 26 than TDK currently has.

Roma's best seasons were immediately pre and post Ryder when he was sole #1 ruck - 2019, 2023 and 2024.

Obviously Roma turns 30 in a few months. He's 3.5 years older.

The questions for me are:

- Do we lose Roma if TDK comes?

- If we do, we're in the same position as the last 3 years since Ryder left- one quality #1 ruck, one older insurance option (Campbell/Boyd), and some kids. The only difference is- TDK replaces Roma, and the kids are a bit older and more ready than previously.

- Does TDK add much to what Roma's already doing?

- If we have a succession plan in place- Roma, onto Dodson/Heath/Keeler, do we need to fix what isn't broken?

- If we want ruck upgrades in the medium term- are there other options, eg a young player we can trade for (like Hickey or Longer years ago) or another free agent who's better value for money (either this year or wait another 12 months)

- Is TDK really worth an investment of the biggest contract in AFL history?

Roma is a good player
But as what?
He isn't a pure Ruckman
Doesn't generally win taps outs, so no advantage there.
We only had to watch Paddy Ryder to see the real beauty of tap outs to advantage.
Roma's strength is clearances, but is there an advantage there?
Yes he's stopping the opposing Ruckman from getting it,
But generally he bombs the ball into the forward line to no advantage.
And not a noted goal kicker.
Another strength of his is marking around the ground, but he doesn't tend to take match saving marks in the backline.
We're getting TDK as a pure Ruckman
I haven't seen enough of him to know how good he is.
Hopefully he gives us tap outs to advantage, aggression at the contest, game saving marks in the backline & lets the smaller mids do the rest
I'm not banking on him to be a noted goal
kicker.
Paddy Ryder was an acception to the rule.

 

[stavro#4]

This needs some unpacking.

Roma back in 2019- at the age of 23 - had a better year than TDK's best year to date. And TDK is 26.

So judging by "same age" Roma's the better player than TDK. Had achieved more at 26 than TDK currently has.

Roma's best seasons were immediately pre and post Ryder when he was sole #1 ruck - 2019, 2023 and 2024.

Obviously Roma turns 30 in a few months. He's 3.5 years older.

The questions for me are:

- Do we lose Roma if TDK comes?

- If we do, we're in the same position as the last 3 years since Ryder left- one quality #1 ruck, one older insurance option (Campbell/Boyd), and some kids. The only difference is- TDK replaces Roma, and the kids are a bit older and more ready than previously.

- Does TDK add much to what Roma's already doing?

- If we have a succession plan in place- Roma, onto Dodson/Heath/Keeler, do we need to fix what isn't broken?

- If we want ruck upgrades in the medium term- are there other options, eg a young player we can trade for (like Hickey or Longer years ago) or another free agent who's better value for money (either this year or wait another 12 months)

- Is TDK really worth an investment of the biggest contract in AFL history?

You really going all the way back to 2019 to try win this argument huh?

I feel the need to point out you celebrating his 2019 season and it’s marginally ahead of TDK this year that you also can’t stand and don’t think he is worth being paid.

A year in which TDK has had to share the ruck or at times play predominantly forward etc.

Even Marshall’s best season in 2024 is only slight better statistically than the entirety of this TDK season. Of which you are saying Marshall achieved it as the sole ruck and TDK as pointed out was used in multiple different ways.

 

[The Punter]

This needs some unpacking.

Roma back in 2019- at the age of 23 - had a better year than TDK's best year to date. And TDK is 26.

So judging by "same age" Roma's the better player than TDK. Had achieved more at 26 than TDK currently has.

Roma's best seasons were immediately pre and post Ryder when he was sole #1 ruck - 2019, 2023 and 2024.

Obviously Roma turns 30 in a few months. He's 3.5 years older.

The questions for me are:

- Do we lose Roma if TDK comes?

- If we do, we're in the same position as the last 3 years since Ryder left- one quality #1 ruck, one older insurance option (Campbell/Boyd), and some kids. The only difference is- TDK replaces Roma, and the kids are a bit older and more ready than previously.

- Does TDK add much to what Roma's already doing?

- If we have a succession plan in place- Roma, onto Dodson/Heath/Keeler, do we need to fix what isn't broken?

- If we want ruck upgrades in the medium term- are there other options, eg a young player we can trade for (like Hickey or Longer years ago) or another free agent who's better value for money (either this year or wait another 12 months)

- Is TDK really worth an investment of the biggest contract in AFL history?

The plan is to play both in the same team.

Here is what we have done this season in terms of all game ruck (primary named first, others after):

Round 1: Boyd, Marshall
Round 2-3: Marshall, Keeler
Round 4: Marshall, Keeler (subbed out), Owens
Round 5-6: Marshall, Owens
Round 7: Marshall, Keeler
Round 8-12: Marshall, Owens
Round 14: Marshall, Keeler, Owens
Round 15-16: Marshall, Keeler
Round 17: Marshall, Owens
Round 18-19: Marshall, Heath
Round 20: Marshall, Owens
Round 21: Marshall, Heath
Round 22: Marshall, Heath (subbed out), Boxshall (!)
Round 23: Marshall, Dodson (subbed out) Boxshall

Now, clearly the club considers those Owens/Boxshall minutes as unacceptable, and rightly so. Keeler is a satisfactory alternative but not great. Heath looks good at ball-ups and throw-ins, but not at centre bounces. We didn't see enough of Dodson, who did some rucking but never got to a centre bounce.

So the club has decided it needs two ruckmen in the side so it can have a ruck on the ground at all times.

In 2020 we were 8-5 with both Ryder and Marshall in the team and 3-3 with only Marshall. They only played 7 games together in 2021 (5-2 with both, 5-10 with one missing). In 2022 they played 11 games together for a record of 6-5, with St Kilda going 5-6 in games with only one of them playing.

So when we had two top-15 ruckmen in the league for a three year period, we went 19-12 when they both played and 13-19 when only one of them played. Almost opposite records.

I think it's been identified as an issue and the club has decided to rectify it by signing Tom De Koning.

 

[stavro#4]

Tom De Konings first 12 games this year. Playing predominantly ruck:

19.83 disposals
29 Hitouts
2.6 tackles
5.58 clearances
4.5 inside 50s


Pretty comparable to Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

33

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

(the pinnacle)

 

[joydivision22]

Marshall and De Koning will be playing together next year and the team will be much better for it than last year. That's really the only measure we need to consider.

When Marshall's finished in a few years time, Dodson will be 22-23yo and ready to join TDk.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Marshall and De Koning will be playing together next year and the team will be much better for it than last year. That's really the only measure we need to consider.

When Marshall's finished in a few years time, Dodson will be 22-23yo and ready to join TDk.

Yep, pretty easy to understand isn’t it.
This narrative that 2 game Dodson will immediately seek a trade is fantastic

 

[Sully111]

This needs some unpacking.

Roma back in 2019- at the age of 23 - had a better year than TDK's best year to date. And TDK is 26.

So judging by "same age" Roma's the better player than TDK. Had achieved more at 26 than TDK currently has.

Roma's best seasons were immediately pre and post Ryder when he was sole #1 ruck - 2019, 2023 and 2024.

Obviously Roma turns 30 in a few months. He's 3.5 years older.

The questions for me are:

- Do we lose Roma if TDK comes?

- If we do, we're in the same position as the last 3 years since Ryder left- one quality #1 ruck, one older insurance option (Campbell/Boyd), and some kids. The only difference is- TDK replaces Roma, and the kids are a bit older and more ready than previously.

- Does TDK add much to what Roma's already doing?

- If we have a succession plan in place- Roma, onto Dodson/Heath/Keeler, do we need to fix what isn't broken?

- If we want ruck upgrades in the medium term- are there other options, eg a young player we can trade for (like Hickey or Longer years ago) or another free agent who's better value for money (either this year or wait another 12 months)

- Is TDK really worth an investment of the biggest contract in AFL history?

It seems to be happening so we best roll with it.

My gut feeling is if Roma leaves it's because he's got some deal happening with Geelong. If that's the case, hopefully we play hardball and get a good pick.

I can absolutely see playing both working. Roma and Paddy at times was delicious, and that's without the likes of Nas and Hugo etc running through the middle.

 

[NAS THE GOAT]

Bahahahaha

 

[The Punter]

It seems to be happening so we best roll with it.

My gut feeling is if Roma leaves it's because he's got some deal happening with Geelong. If that's the case, hopefully we play hardball and get a good pick.

I can absolutely see playing the, both working. Roma and Paddy at times was delicious, and that's without the likes of Nas and Hugo etc running through the middle.

We did have an All-Australian midfielder in 2020 and 2021.

 

[SaintsFooty1107]

Take with a massive grain of salt. My mate who’s bit involved with the Cats. Hearing Whispers SDK could make the trip down the highway at the expense of Marshall in a trade.

 

[Sully111]

We did have an All-Australian midfielder in 2020 and 2021.

On balance, I'd prefer what we have now.

 

[Murraj1966]

If we go to 5 on the bench and we believe Ross in his saying that we don't just trade contracted players for fun then expect TDK and Marshall as a Ryder/Marshall combo next year.

Otherwise Geelong or Carlton or whoever can fork out 2 First Rounders for our contracted ruckman in Marshall.