Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXIX

[Gointocarlton]

And so he ****en should! That was so unprofessional and his performance that day was a disgrace. He should have been dropped...

I get the feeling next year, players that are not adhering to a professional standard will find themselves playing in the 2's...

About ****en time. Charlie comes across as the kid who has never been told "no" and gets away with whatever he wants. Sounds like he has been thumbing his nose at the club a bit thinking "they wont dare get rid of me over the coach or coaches".

 

[Wickzki]

Brisbane may also lose Bailey and Hipwood

that might be so but they're replacing veterans with a similar number of incoming players they expect to be able to contribute as well as turning over their typical amount of unproven prospects.

We lost a ton of depth and replaced 90% of it with kids.

 

[Wickzki]

Bailey next year (FA)?
Where’s the L/T contracted Hipwood going??

They've been linked to losing a couple of players with those two being mentioned numerous times in the media.

 

[Opium]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, however..

Adelaide and Port both considering Lij.

He has a support network there

And he doesn't in Melbourne with his brother and parents?

 

[passmark]

Glad to read that GW recognises the culture is toxic and , more importantly, he’s prepared to do something about it.

It’s the worst secret in Australia but only gets highlighted after people leave.

**** Curnow, he can play ressies with his shit attitude. campaigners as thick as a ****en brick and had smoke blown up his arse for 10 years. **** him.

Clear them out Wrighty!!

 

[ferrisb]

Charlie also needs Harry to front up each week so that he's not double-teamed by the best defenders every week.

Charlie and Harry also need to learn how to play together properly.

The two of them together are way less effective than double each of them playing solo.

 

[X-Factor]

And he doesn't in Melbourne with his brother and parents?

His old man Ben lives in Sydney.
He has family connections in Adelaide as they lived there growing up before moving to Wodonga

 

[ferrisb]

That's what my psychiatrist always tells me, I need a rocket up my ass and that'll fix me!

That explains the Username!

 

[Red_man2008]

Buy low , sell high. We'd be selling low with Charlie. I can't see the swans or others ponying up a worthwhile trade. Getting Charlie to play his best footy again seems the best option.

I’d still say we bought low and will still sell high. And probably higher than we or he deserves with how he currently plays. Probably due to his contract. But had he been sold at the end of 2023 he would have been the biggest trade in afl history (3-4 first round picks minimum). Now he’s probably on worth 2 firsts and a player still.

 

[Lukeblueboy]

If Brisbane get Ridley and Allen.
Then surely something decent might be able to be shaken from the tree?
Bailey ?

 

[Opium]

Moody in the ruck to start the last and what do you know. Clearence and goal.

 

[X-Factor]

If Brisbane get Ridley and Allen.
Then surely something decent might be able to be shaken from the tree?
Bailey ?

Hipwood will be the one to go. With Allen coming in and Morris coming of age, he will be surplus to requirements. Would look at him as a CHB instead of up forward

 

[ferrisb]

Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

25

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

is a fantastic talent. And I wouldn't sneeze at a guy who can kick 60+ goals in a season.

But posters bemoaning Charlie's laziness are gonna hate King. He offers absolutely nothing beyond mark and goal.

Imagine Charlie.... With less tackling pressure, zero work up the ground, no marks in defense and never leaving the forward 50m.

He is probably the most one trick pony forward in the AFL (it's a helluva trick tho!)

 

[blue healer]

So, we now have a toxic culture.

Did we have this at round 17 last year when we were 2nd on the ladder coming off a prelim loss the previous year?

I wouldn't have thought we could do that with a toxic culture so what has changed over the last 30 games?

Well, we got rid of our HP manager because we had too many injuries (how's that gone BTW?), lost a President who was prominent in a Senate Inquiry, de-listed a raft of perennially injured players and traded Kennedy, replaced them with kids and a solid citizen in Haynes and Oh yes we hired an apprentice CEO who we all hope has ridden in on a white horse.

Which of those actions have suddenly turned the culture toxic?

One could almost say that this deterioration in culture has happened under Wright's watch.

 

[gab213]

Charlie and Harry also need to learn how to play together properly.

The two of them together are way less effective than double each of them playing solo.

I agree but if they get it right then lookout. I dont think theyve had enough of an extended run of games where they are available at the same time or thats how it seems to me, id be interested to know how many theyve played together.

 

[Gointocarlton]

Glad to read that GW recognises the culture is toxic and , more importantly, he’s prepared to do something about it.

It’s the worst secret in Australia but only gets highlighted after people leave.

** Curnow, he can play ressies with his shit attitude. campaigners as thick as a ***en brick and had smoke blown up his arse for 10 years. * him.

Clear them out Wrighty!!

Amen Brother.

 

[Gointocarlton]

I’d still say we bought low and will still sell high. And probably higher than we or he deserves with how he currently plays. Probably due to his contract. But had he been sold at the end of 2023 he would have been the biggest trade in afl history (3-4 first round picks minimum). Now he’s probably on worth 2 firsts and a player still.

Why did the Aints throw the Hail Mary at TDK and not Curnow I wonder? They technically dont need an expensive ruckman, they could have got some back up for Marshall way cheaper and could have spent big money on Curnow. TDK is not a fwds a-hole, never will be. They've thrown 1.85M at TDK, what's a dual Coleman Medalist like Charlie worth ? 2.2M?

 

[4thchicken]

If that's your definition of disarray, then every club who has gone on to win a flag outside of the WB in 2016 and Hawthorn in 08 were in disarray, and being in disarray is how you redeploy your list after a list has maxed out.

Seriously, look at the history of it. Teams rise, but only two this side of 2000 have actually gone on to win the flag first try; everyone else has had to rise, fall a bit, and build back up to it with the bones of that initial side still there.

The normal cycle is that teams rise and build for sustained success and when they get there they continue to build a team around the core to try to nab a flag. It doesn’t mean they will be win a flag but targeting several years in the finals is expected.

We went through a full rebuild, had a very strong core and reasonable depth/age profile and we’ve failed to demonstrate consistency or have no achieved any sustained final run. Rather than build building around the core, we got ride of a whole bunch of role players/depth in the key 23-28yo age range making the team even more reliant on the core.

Go back to the end of 22/start of 23 season? - what were people’s expectations? - a list that was near complete and ready to contend yet we’ve largely achieved nothing - certainly no sustained flag tilt.

Was the list good enough? Well for a period of about 15 months from mid-2023 to 3/4 through 2024, the blues were probably the best performed team in the comp so the talent was certainly there. The issue has been inability of the coaching staff to manage team performances, and list decisions that have resulted in a large loss of the 23-28 yo depth to the extent that the opportunity from the last rebuild has largely been lost - the lack of consistency/ability to maintain clear direction/questionable player culture is what constitutes disarray

 

[TheThunderboltKid]

Ben King is a fantastic talent. And I wouldn't sneeze at a guy who can kick 60+ goals in a season.

But posters bemoaning Charlie's laziness are gonna hate King. He offers absolutely nothing beyond mark and goal.

Imagine Charlie.... With less tackling pressure, zero work up the ground, no marks in defense and never leaving the forward 50m.

He is probably the most one trick pony forward in the AFL (it's a helluva trick tho!)

Come on, 0.6 tackles a game is nothing to sneeze at!

 

[Wickzki]

And he doesn't in Melbourne with his brother and parents?

1. The Crows and Power are considering him.

2. it may make sense for Elijah as he has support in Adelaide too (at least a grandparent and an aunt).

3. The info that I've been given doesn't preclude other Melbourne clubs from being interested

 

[Gethelred]

The normal cycle is that teams rise and build for sustained success and when they get there they continue to build a team around the core to try to nab a flag. It doesn’t mean they will be win a flag but targeting several years in the finals is expected.

We went through a full rebuild, had a very strong core and reasonable depth/age profile and we’ve failed to demonstrate consistency or have no achieved any sustained final run. Rather than build building around the core, we got ride of a whole bunch of role players/depth in the key 23-28yo age range making the team even more reliant on the core.

Go back to the end of 22/start of 23 season? - what were people’s expectations? - a list that was near complete and ready to contend yet we’ve largely achieved nothing - certainly no sustained flag tilt.

The problem I have with this analysis is that it relies on people's opinions of what is - people's expectations - rather than looking at the actual stats and list demographics. I've said this a few times, but we genuinely missed out on a few years of finals because we chose to boot Bolton and replaced him without a process; doing so meant that we wasted key years of our list build treading water, with the year that would've been that step from bottom half of the eight to top 4 in 2023 becoming our high watermark.

While a number of our players - Weitering, Curnow, McKay, Cerra - were just entering their prime, the key movers - Cripps, Hewitt, Newman, Saad, Docherty, McGovern - were towards the end of their zenith, and while they had - and in some cases, still have - good footy in them, they were beyond their own builds, beyond their peak. If we were better sooner, those players would've played finals longer, and we probably don't see last year's fadeout the way we did.

Was the list good enough? Well for a period of about 15 months from mid-2023 to 3/4 through 2024, the blues were probably the best performed team in the comp so the talent was certainly there. The issue has been inability of the coaching staff to manage team performances, and list decisions that have resulted in a large loss of the 23-28 yo depth to the extent that the opportunity from the last rebuild has largely been lost - the lack of consistency/ability to maintian direction is what makes us in disarray

I think we're getting a little far afield.

Your initial point was that the club is in disarray. I pointed out that every club who went on to win a flag with two exceptions rose, made finals, then fell (I didn't say it in that post, but usually because of list inadequacies) before winning their flags.

Trying again to quantify why we're so disappointing isn't really trying to address the reality that a flag is an exceedingly difficult thing to win, and it can take multiple attempts to get it right. Hawthorn thought they were ready in 2003-2004; history put paid to that. Geelong thought they had it in 2003-2004, too. Richmond thought they were good enough in 2013. Collingwood thought they were thereabouts in 2007 and 2018. Melbourne in 2018.

Of course, you also have the failures. WB in 2004 and St Kilda in the same time period thought they were onto a good thing. Us in 2009. Freo in 2010-11. St Kilda in 2012, trying to go again while Riewoldt stuck around. Not all rebuilds work out. Not all flag tilts work out.

Time will tell about where we sit, but I stand by what I said before: if we are in disarray, then an awful lot of successful sides were also in disarray before they came good.

 

[dangertroy]

Re: Charlie vs King.

Lot of comments trying to figure out who is the better player (it’s Charlie), but that’s not the point.

King doesn't have to be as good as Charlie, because it wouldn’t be a straight swap. Charlie’s got a higher market value than King. Charlie’s got a long term contract, King will be a free agent next year. We’ve got the power to hold Charlie unless we get what we want, where as GC would get better value from King this year than next. So any trade is likely King plus something else. If King gives us 80% of what Charlie does, but we also pick up a speedy mid, or a crafty small forward along side it, then its strongly worth considering.

King isn’t the same player as Charlie, and he doesn’t need to be, the trade just needs to make us a better team than we are with Charlie in it. I think it’s fair to say that if we don’t improve the delivery to Charlie next year, then we’re not getting full value out of him anyway. Charlie’s value is also about as good as it will ever get. If he is held and has an average year (or the daft idea that we force him to play twos to improve his attitude), then his value will drop precipitously by the next trade period.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Charlie and Harry also need to learn how to play together properly.

The two of them together are way less effective than double each of them playing solo.

Hopefully that wont be a problem after the trade period.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Why did the Aints throw the Hail Mary at TDK and not Curnow I wonder? They technically dont need an expensive ruckman, they could have got some back up for Marshall way cheaper and could have spent big money on Curnow. TDK is not a fwds a-hole, never will be. They've thrown 1.85M at TDK, what's a dual Coleman Medalist like Charlie worth ? 2.2M?

Umm, ones contracted with 4 years to go and the other is a free agent

 

[ferrisb]

Come on, 0.6 tackles a game is nothing to sneeze at!

Sneeze and you'd miss it!