Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 5 - thread rules updated

[Baldur]

A drone fitted with a shot gun with bird shot is probably all its needed to knock out an enemy drone.

For an FPV drone sure, but Shahed's are larger and tougher than many people think. I was discussing counters to long range Shahed's, not the little FPV drones.

HESA Shahed 136 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"a fuselage now made of fiberglass over woven carbon fiber"


Its going to take more than bird shot to reliably bring down that bird.

 

[Val Keating]

Have they found out who knocked that Ukrainian Nazi yet?

Former Ukrainian parliament speaker shot dead in 'horrific murder'

Former Ukrainian parliamentary speaker Andriy Parubiy has been killed in the western city of Lviv, and a manhunt is underway for his killer.

www.abc.net.au

 

[ibd77]

For an FPV drone sure, but Shahed's are larger and tougher than many people think. I was discussing counters to long range Shahed's, not the little FPV drones.

HESA Shahed 136 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"a fuselage now made of fiberglass over woven carbon fiber"
View attachment 2413810

Its going to take more than bird shot to reliably bring down that bird.

Probably an RPG then.

 

[wannabejack]

Happy news for Green Hammer, not

But the Green Tool has posted that "Russian pushes on and prepares for military victory"

 

[CD Xbow]

This is a bit of an odd one. Ukraine hit a large radio telescope in Crimea. Not the first time either. So much winning for Mr P.

Why take out a radio telescope? Ukraine’s strike on Russia’s RT-70 explained

The RT-70 radio telescope near Yevpatoria was once used to study Mars and Venus. After Russia’s 2014 annexation of Crimea, it was converted into a critical military asset

global.espreso.tv

 

[Baldur]

Have they found out who knocked that Ukrainian Nazi yet?

Former Ukrainian parliament speaker shot dead in 'horrific murder'

Former Ukrainian parliamentary speaker Andriy Parubiy has been killed in the western city of Lviv, and a manhunt is underway for his killer.

www.abc.net.au

View attachment 2413853

A suspect has been arrested

Suspect Arrested in Andriy Parubiy Murder Amid Russian Link Investigation | Ukraine news - #Mezha

Ukrainian authorities arrested a suspect in the murder of former parliament speaker Andriy Parubiy, investigating possible Russian involvement and ongoing counterintelligence measures.

mezha.net

Andriy Parubiy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I take, maybe unfairly that your use of the term "knocked that Ukrainian Nazi", means that you consider if a person holds far-right nationalist views this is a valid reason to murder them. You do not have to travel to Ukraine to find such people, there was a large far-right anti-immigrant protest in Australia last weekend. House stones etc.

As for Parubiy being a Nazi. well it appears he was once a neo-nazi but was no longer openly declaring nazi views, nor was he at present a member of a neo-nazi party. None of us have any idea as to the private views he may have held at the time of his death.

Given the history of Ukraine, a Ukrainian nationalist holding far-right views during and shortly after the collapse of the USSR is hardly unlikely.

Now I do not consider that people holding views I do not agree with, such as far-right nationalist views as a valid reason to murder them. If I did I would be no better and arguably worse than them. At least they are most likely not hypocrites as well extremist buffoons.

All that being said, if in this instance the assassin was operating on behalf of the Russian federation, then I consider that he as a member of the political leadership of an enemy nation at war, was a valid target.

Unlike Anhelina. I consider myself a tough minded man, but this picture had me crying.

 

[Val Keating]

A suspect has been arrested

Suspect Arrested in Andriy Parubiy Murder Amid Russian Link Investigation | Ukraine news - #Mezha

Ukrainian authorities arrested a suspect in the murder of former parliament speaker Andriy Parubiy, investigating possible Russian involvement and ongoing counterintelligence measures.

mezha.net

Andriy Parubiy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I take, maybe unfairly that your use of the term "knocked that Ukrainian Nazi", means that you consider if a person holds far-right nationalist views this is a valid reason to murder them. You do not have to travel to Ukraine to find such people, there was a large far-right anti-immigrant protest in Australia last weekend. House stones etc.

As for Parubiy being a Nazi. well it appears he was once a neo-nazi but was no longer openly declaring nazi views, nor was he at present a member of a neo-nazi party. None of us have any idea as to the private views he may have held at the time of his death.

Given the history of Ukraine, a Ukrainian nationalist holding far-right views during and shortly after the collapse of the USSR is hardly unlikely.

Now I do not consider that people holding views I do not agree with, such as far-right nationalist views as a valid reason to murder them. If I did I would be no better and arguably worse than them. At least they are most likely not hypocrites as well extremist buffoons.

All that being said, if in this instance the assassin was operating on behalf of the Russian federation, then I consider that he as a member of the political leadership of an enemy nation at war, was a valid target.

Unlike Anhelina. I consider myself a tough minded man, but this picture had me crying.

View attachment 2413927

Are you serious?

 

[Val Keating]

LOL “As for Parubiy being a Nazi. well it appears he was once a neo-Nazi”

 

[Baldur]

Are you serious?

Yes

Just because somebody once believed something is not proof they still do.

Declaring Ukraine as being ruled by nazi's is Russian propaganda to justify their illegal invasion. Propaganda you shamefully appear pleased to further.

 

[Baldur]

LOL “As for Parubiy being a Nazi. well it appears he was once a neo-Nazi”

"Being ", clearly refers to if Parubiy was a nazi at the time of his death. Your lack of simple comprehension should not be a laughing matter for yourself.

Given this is a thread in relation to the Russian Ukraine war and Russia's propaganda to justify the illegal invasion includes statements that nazi's control Ukraine.

Do you have any evidence that the former chairman of the Ukrainian parliament, Andriy Parubiy, either in the years immediately preceding the full scale invasion or since, has promoted, spoken in favour of or attempted to implement nazi ideology?

 

[Northalives]

I don't want to get in a fight with anyone but wasn't it Zelenskyy who refused to meet with Russia to discuss the invasion when it first kicked off? From memory, Zelenskyy said then that he would not agree to any meeting whilst Putin was leader of Russia and some cheered!

It's not very edifying now for Zelenskyy and others to complain that Putin won't meet him.

This disgusting war as are all wars, need not have continued on for this length of time.

 

[Baldur]

I don't want to get in a fight with anyone but wasn't it Zelenskyy who refused to meet with Russia to discuss the invasion when it first kicked off? From memory, Zelenskyy said then that he would not agree to any meeting whilst Putin was leader of Russia and some cheered!

It's not very edifying now for Zelenskyy and others to complain that Putin won't meet him.

This disgusting war as are all wars, need not have continued on for this length of time.

Zelenskyy made it quite clear that he did not want to speak to Putin at first, so as to present a tough front to the world. It was his job at that time to rally his people and nation to defend themselves from the illegal invasion. Furthermore he had to make sure the world understood that Ukraine was going to fight to defend their freedom.

Any willingness he expresses now is to pander to toddler Trump. Ukraine needs US help and Zelenskyy will say whatever he needs to say to get that help. Even if that help amounts to nothing more than a willingness to sell weapons.

The complaints re Putin being unwilling to meet Zelenskyy are an attempt to get Trump to understand that Putin is playing him, almost certainly a waste of time as Trump is unlikely to abandon his hero worship of Putin.

The only thing unedifying in this is toddler Trump.

Zelenskyy speaking to Putin would in fact be a total waste of time as far as any progress to stopping the war though a negotiated peace is concerned. Putin has never moved from his maximalist position and even if Zelenskyy wanted to surrender, he cannot. Unlike Putin he is not a dictator and his people simply will not accept surrender at this time.

Negotiations can only succeed when there is a deal to be made, Ukraine is not willing to surrender and Putin will accept nothing less.

Yes this war need not have continued this long. If Biden had not been a weak president, if Ukraine had been provided the weapons they requested, when they requested them. Russia may well have lost in early 2023. For that matter if Obama had not been almost as weak he could have nipped this in the bud in 2014. Note this war began in 2014, not 2022.

Now there are three possible ends to this war.

1/ Ukraine's ability or will to resist collapses, they are forced to surrender. Most likely due to western reluctance to provide enough aid. Russia takes over, murders people who oppose Russian rule in job lots, steals Ukraine's wealth and uses Ukraine's people and resources to further enrich Putin and his cronies. Maybe inline with Putin's aim to reinstate the Russian empire even going on to attack the Baltic states, once they have recovered from this war using Ukraine's resources.

2/ Russia's ability to wage the war collapses, their economy falls apart, Putin is assassinated by his cronies. Whoever takes over the mess makes whatever deal they can and pulls out of Ukraine.

3/ Putin seeing 2 above coming like an ongoing trainwreck agrees to a frozen conflict. The front line remains in place and it is 2014 all over again. Maybe said frozen conflict will remain largely frozen, like Korea or Crete, or maybe it goes hot again in a decades time.

Personally I hope for 2, but consider 3 more likely and we should all fear 1. If dictators in charge of powerful states are confirmed in a belief that western democracies have grown so weak that they can attack whom they wish. Than we are all well and truly ****ed.

 

[Mobbs]

No further information yet about whoever drove an SUV onto the grounds of the Russian Consulate in Sydney.

Apparently the guy was apprehended peacefully as far as can be understood.

 

[Mobbs]

Reportedly multiple new hits in Rostov, i think very recently. It'd be about 1am now.

 

[wannabejack]

I don't want to get in a fight with anyone but wasn't it Zelenskyy who refused to meet with Russia to discuss the invasion when it first kicked off? From memory, Zelenskyy said then that he would not agree to any meeting whilst Putin was leader of Russia and some cheered!

It's not very edifying now for Zelenskyy and others to complain that Putin won't meet him.

This disgusting war as are all wars, need not have continued on for this length of time.

The initial meetings between Russia and Ukraine after the February 2022 invasion began with Russia demanding Ukraine's surrender...
Ukrainian forces refused Russian demands for surrender in specific instances, such as the siege of Mariupol in early 2022.
Why would he meet with anyone if all they wanted from you was to surrender.

 

[The Terrible Thinker]

I don't want to get in a fight with anyone but wasn't it Zelenskyy who refused to meet with Russia to discuss the invasion when it first kicked off?

The only meeting Russia was interested in with Zelenskyy, is with their assassins.

 

[wannabejack]

Russia claims that it only targets "military sites".

24 February 2025

Child casualties in Ukraine in 2024 up by 57 percent - Vatican News

As 24 February 2025 marks the anniversary of Russia's full-scale invasion in Ukraine, UNICEF decries that child casualties in the war-torn country ...

www.vaticannews.va

Since February 2022, more than 2,520 children have been killed or injured, with 669 killed and 1,854 injured, UNICEF states, while noting the actual number is likely much higher, as these figures only account for confirmed deaths recorded by the United Nations.

6 July 2025

Threefold increase in children killed or injured in Ukraine in 3 months

The number of children killed or injured in Ukraine between 1 March and 31 May 2025 increased by more than 200 per cent compared to the previous quarter.

www.unicef.org.au

 

[Aussie in exile]

I'm not Russian?

Do you condemn colonialism?* Do you see how stupid that request would be?

*I presume you're a white Australian from a European background

Never answer a question with a question its bad English, so i have to ask the question is English your first language?

 

[Aussie in exile]

putin has really lost the plot now.
I'm guessing not being in Kiev within 3 days of launching his illegal invasion, and oil refinery's in russia being hit, and having a job to replace the million plus soldiers who have died for his ego

Putin blames West for Ukraine war at China-led SCO summit

Russia’s president defends the military campaign in Ukraine, blaming NATO and Western policies for the conflict.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[wannabejack]

This is a bit of an odd one. Ukraine hit a large radio telescope in Crimea. Not the first time either. So much winning for Mr P.

Why take out a radio telescope? Ukraine’s strike on Russia’s RT-70 explained

The RT-70 radio telescope near Yevpatoria was once used to study Mars and Venus. After Russia’s 2014 annexation of Crimea, it was converted into a critical military asset

global.espreso.tv

 

[Aussie in exile]

Happy days

 

[jatz14]

I don't want to get in a fight with anyone but wasn't it Zelenskyy who refused to meet with Russia to discuss the invasion when it first kicked off? From memory, Zelenskyy said then that he would not agree to any meeting whilst Putin was leader of Russia and some cheered!

It's not very edifying now for Zelenskyy and others to complain that Putin won't meet him.

This disgusting war as are all wars, need not have continued on for this length of time.

At that time, when Putin still expected to win, the only way to have a productive meeting with Putin would have been for Ukraine to surrender. What Putin demanded would have been horrific for Ukraine, and they almost certainly would have considered fighting on the lesser of 2 evils. Absolutely no point going into a meeting with Putin and have him demand half of Ukraine as a reward.

Now is not then. Putin is more desperate now, and his aims much smaller. But he is negotiating with Trump. I wouldn't trust Trump to sell my dog.

I suspect Putin knows that Trump will not have any qualms at all trading away what Ukraine considers untradeable, and when Zelensky refuses the deal, Putin, and a fair number of his sycophants here, will paint Ukraine as the bad guys.

Frankly, equating the situation when the invasion first kicked off, and now, is idiotic.

 

[Zidane98]

No further information yet about whoever drove an SUV onto the grounds of the Russian Consulate in Sydney.

Apparently the guy was apprehended peacefully as far as can be understood.

There's a few candidates in these forums that may have done it to claim asylum in Russia.

 

[wannabejack]

"Ukraine has some fair weather friends."
“Ukraine must become a steel porcupine, undigestible for potential invaders.”

"South Korea's weapons industry has transformed into a global powerhouse, rapidly growing its defense exports to become one of the world's leading arms suppliers, aiming to be the fourth-largest by 2027"
Ukraine should, at the least, become self-reliant in weapons manufacturing.

 

[Aussie in exile]

There's a few candidates in these forums that may have done it to claim asylum in Russia.

Yes there certainly are and they don't hide their love for mother russia.
With the amount to troops that russia is losing in it's illegal invasion of Ukraine lets hope they sign up for the russia army when they move there to try and make up the shortfall