List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[OxSaint]

If another club is coming in and offering Wilkie $1m a year he has every right in the world to go back to the club and ask to renegotiate his deal. If it happened with my employer it's sure as shit what I would do! He's got maybe five more years of great earning potential before he retires, and he's got the right to try and earn every cent he can to set himself and his family up for the future. I hope we can afford to come to the table and pay him a bit closer to what he's worth, because he is St Kilda through and through.

Your employer isnt stuck paying your wage for 4 years to be mediocre though. They can give the months pay and tell you to pack your bags.

 

[Diehard Saint]

So TDK and JSOS are coming. If we also land the reported trade targets of Flanders, Ryan and Aleer while cutting Byrnes, Jones, Carroll, Arie and Heath (all seem likely to go) this is how I'd be selecting seniors and reserves from the squad:

B: Stocker, Howard, Tauru
HB: Sinclair, Wilkie, Silvagni
C: Windhager, Flanders, Wilson
HF: Hall, Sharman, Owens
F: Higgins, King, Marshall

Foll: TDK, Nas, Macrae
Int: Phillipou, Wood, Garcia, Clark, Butler


B: O'Connell, Aleer, Armstrong
HB: Hastie, Barrat, Travaglia
C: Hill, Steele, ***
HF: Said, Keeler, Henry
F: Ryan, Caminiti, Collard

Foll: Dodson, Boxshall, Dow


JSOS makes Aleer completely redundant. There's probably only one spot available between Henry, Ryan, Butler and Collard - with a forward line devoid of defensive pressure I'm giving that spot to Butler since he kicks as many goals as Ryan and provides the most pressure. If Henry gets back to his best then he gets a spot, but I'm worried that his injury might be career changing.

Wood edges out Hill for the bench wing/half forward spot thanks to his overhead marking - Windy and Wilson need to be prioritised with the starting roles.

Steele was borderline best 22 this year and looked absolutely cooked by the end. With Nas moving to the middle and Flanders coming in (along with Garcia's improvement), I don't see him in our best team moving forward. Macrae is a crab but more effective than Steele. Boxshall could get to the front of the line pretty quickly.

I'd like to see Hastie take Clark's spot but for now you'd have to start with Clark if fit.

Think Collard’s going to get more games this season. We need him to.
Perhaps at Butler’s expense.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Who is out there that might be available, is a better option than Marshall & Steele & what would they cost?

What draft picks would we get for them
I personally dont think we would get compensated well enough

Having strong depth on the list is important, due to form, injury etc.

Enables the kids to develop with not too much pressure
But if their form warrants it, you get games into them.

If we get rid of Steele for example, then we are probably putting too much pressure
on teenagers, Boxshall, Garcia, Hastie & Travaglia.

Macrae & Steele are our foot soldiers for now, until Boxshall & Pou take over.
So we need to get our midfield settled around Macrae & Steele.

Windy looks like he's settled & happy on a wing.

Henry or Wilson are our choices for the other wing.
Hopefully they can have better seasons next year.

Then you have Hall & Nas rotating through or we make them permanent mids.

If anything out of this trade we are acquiring further depth to the list in important positions.

Some out there are saying TDK Is only worth 500k
I reckon he's got the potential to be AA, especially with Gawn gone soon
And we've had a pretty good recent? history in recruiting
top Ruckmen, from other clubs e.g. M.Gardiner, Stephen King, Ryder

JSOS will bring talent & 100% effort, let's hope he does a Mason Wood

32

Mason Wood

Age

32

Ht

192cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

CL

0.3

2star

D

8.3

2star

K

2.7

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.3

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

15.8

4star

K

8.6

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.6

3star

turnaround on injuries.

Ryan adds to Butler & Higgins as dangerous small-forwards with experience

Those 3 trades have fulfilled positional needs now.

Yes we need an A grade midfielder but they are generally the most expensive to acquire
We have tried to land one at least, in recent years.

I can see the vision that we need to go quickly now for cup no.2
Will not only give us joy, but will put us back on the map again & makes us a relevant club (well in the eyes of others) once more.

I'm almost certain that RTB wants Marshall & Steele to be part of that success.

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

Wouldn’t it only apply to loose kicks going OOB? A spoil is a throw in ala AFLW isn’t it?

Yeah for sure, but I think it'll still straighten things up a bit though.

 

[Diehard Saint]

This is the thing though. If TDK’s contract doesn’t cater for scaling alongside the CBA then it can start to look very reasonable pretty quickly.

Well we didn’t do it before.
And it added to our healthy salary cap.
Why would we start now?

 

[beside the seaside]

The commentary from many around the Silvagni contract is so over the top.

Dogs or Pies signing him for 650k, incredible deal. We sign him for 800k, MASSIVE overs what are we doing.

It's not even that big a difference in the scheme of things.

 

[sauce_head]

If another club is coming in and offering Wilkie $1m a year he has every right in the world to go back to the club and ask to renegotiate his deal. If it happened with my employer it's sure as shit what I would do! He's got maybe five more years of great earning potential before he retires, and he's got the right to try and earn every cent he can to set himself and his family up for the future. I hope we can afford to come to the table and pay him a bit closer to what he's worth, because he is St Kilda through and through.

Yes he has every moral right to, but doesn’t have a contractual leg to stand on to compel them to.

 

[billings2paddy]

If we are willing to give jsos 5 years, i can't see a universe where we pull the pin on ryan for medical reasons.

His leg would have to fall off during the exam for us to reconsider I reckon

May be close looked unfit majority of the season but, eagles fitness standards are poor

 

[stavro#4]

Sheesh they breed bulldog supporters soft these days

 

[aidansbonor]

I think you're onto something here, I haven't seen any promo of him in casual clothes in the middle of the G

View attachment 2417432

That picture was taken the week before before spuds game this year

 

[PJays]

This is the thing though. If TDK’s contract doesn’t cater for scaling alongside the CBA then it can start to look very reasonable pretty quickly.

With a new TV deal not happening until 2032, modest increases in the next CBA are more likely than huge jumps.

The players could negotiate a higher percentage of existing revenue but you wouldn't expect that to result in colossal increases.

 

[saintderby]

Ricciuto for Adelaide is the worst.

He was defending Keays having three possessions at half-time last night.

He is by far the worst - don't know how he gets a gig

 

[The Punter]

Sheesh they breed bulldog supporters soft these days

Premierships make you soft

 

[The Punter]

Ricciuto for Adelaide is the worst.

He was defending Keays having three possessions at half-time last night.

Fox Thursday Night Crew good on the callers (Hill improving and Howard is fine) but not great on the experts (J Riewoldt poor, King not an in-game analyst but better in studio, and Ricciuto and Betts awful).

 

[jwikked]

If another club is coming in and offering Wilkie $1m a year he has every right in the world to go back to the club and ask to renegotiate his deal. If it happened with my employer it's sure as shit what I would do! He's got maybe five more years of great earning potential before he retires, and he's got the right to try and earn every cent he can to set himself and his family up for the future. I hope we can afford to come to the table and pay him a bit closer to what he's worth, because he is St Kilda through and through.

Nah, he signed his contract lol.

Doesn’t sit right with me when players sign their long term contract, have a nice patch of footy and then expect their contract to be torn up

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Daniel Ward

Daniel Ward

Age

48

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.1

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.3

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

8.4

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.2

3star

? ex-demon coaching Sandy Zebs next year. That was quick.

 

[austinnn]

Fox Thursday Night Crew good on the callers (Hill improving and Howard is fine) but not great on the experts (J Riewoldt poor, King not an in-game analyst but better in studio, and Ricciuto and Betts awful).

I dont mind Hill, he's a but boring though. Corbin Middlemas's voice always sounds like he's got a tiny bit of a nutsack trapped in the fly of his trousers and and every time he moves its excruciatingly painful for him. Bloke needs to smoke some weed and relax a bit.

I dont mind Jack Riewoldt personally, an absolute tonne better than Burgoyne and Betts who are both terrible. I'm used to Hodge now, he's ok. I haven't heard anyone who's been really good for ages

 

[jimmytigs]

So TDK and JSOS are coming. If we also land the reported trade targets of Flanders, Ryan and Aleer while cutting Byrnes, Jones, Carroll, Arie and Heath (all seem likely to go) this is how I'd be selecting seniors and reserves from the squad:

B: Stocker, Howard, Tauru
HB: Sinclair, Wilkie, Silvagni
C: Windhager, Flanders, Wilson
HF: Hall, Sharman, Owens
F: Higgins, King, Marshall

Foll: TDK, Nas, Macrae
Int: Phillipou, Wood, Garcia, Clark, Butler


B: O'Connell, Aleer, Armstrong
HB: Hastie, Barrat, Travaglia
C: Hill, Steele, ***
HF: Said, Keeler, Henry
F: Ryan, Caminiti, Collard

Foll: Dodson, Boxshall, Dow


JSOS makes Aleer completely redundant. There's probably only one spot available between Henry, Ryan, Butler and Collard - with a forward line devoid of defensive pressure I'm giving that spot to Butler since he kicks as many goals as Ryan and provides the most pressure. If Henry gets back to his best then he gets a spot, but I'm worried that his injury might be career changing.

Wood edges out Hill for the bench wing/half forward spot thanks to his overhead marking - Windy and Wilson need to be prioritised with the starting roles.

Steele was borderline best 22 this year and looked absolutely cooked by the end. With Nas moving to the middle and Flanders coming in (along with Garcia's improvement), I don't see him in our best team moving forward. Macrae is a crab but more effective than Steele. Boxshall could get to the front of the line pretty quickly.

I'd like to see Hastie take Clark's spot but for now you'd have to start with Clark if fit.

ryan is recruited to play

i dont know what i was watching,but steele cooked at the end?i thought he played the best football we have seen from him since his slump,towards the end of the season

 

[Leap of Faith]

Daniel Ward? ex-demon coaching Sandy Zebs next year. That was quick.

Was coach of Old Haileybury in the A grade Ammos this year

 

[westernsainter]

He has every right to negotiate, but at the end of the day you sign a contract that has fixed terms. Its hard to compare to everyday life because rarely if ever do you sign a 4 or 5 year contract with your employer.

I think my example the other day is still relevant, once a contract is signed neither the club or player can demand a change to it. Obviously they can ask, but neither are within their right to expect or demand it.

Sure but they have every right to agitate to get out of it, and many do. There's a very, very slim pool of labour to fill this league so like it or not they have power over clubs when it comes to these situations.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

I have a feeling we’re going all out to win the vfl next year.

 

[sammm]

We didn’t land him, and the club goes on the offensive against academy picks. Do you really think we’d be doing that if we had a top 3 pick coming through? No chance.

Isn't it short sighted?

 

[Joffaboy]

JSOS ranked 2nd in the league for 1v1 contests

Dogs ranked 2nd last as a team

The miss on JSOS was an almighty blunder by the dogs. WHY they didn't up their offer is beyond me (either tight asses or their cap is cooked)

If their cap is cooked how can they offer such overs to Wilkie? Well the answer is that they will never have to pay it as it wont happen.
If its not cooked and they wouldn't up the JSOS offer, they have been made fools of.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Nah, he signed his contract lol.

Doesn’t sit right with me when players sign their long term contract, have a nice patch of footy and then expect their contract to be torn up

And there is a difference between Nas having a great last 10 games and his price going up every week, yes there is a difference but you see my point ?

 

[Joffaboy]

The commentary from many around the Silvagni contract is so over the top.

Dogs or Pies signing him for 650k, incredible deal. We sign him for 800k, MASSIVE overs what are we doing.

It's not even that big a difference in the scheme of things.

From a PM I got yesterday from a reliable source is that it is 650k but an extra year. Take that how ever you want to.