List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[bergholt]

If we trade our first in pursuit of MacKenzie, Ryan, Flanders et al. that leaves us picking in the 4th round, not an enviable place.

Meh if the draft isn’t seen as deep then the later picks usually come in a long way. Taking one pick at 60 or whatever isn’t the end of the world if everything else lines up. Worst case the kid lasts two years and is delisted. Might even take a mature ager at that point.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Not many accountants with 1-2 years experience earn anything like that much.

I'm convinced Wilkie will stay

Just a pre-warning though, if he leaves, mods you'll wanna ban me from this forum!

Of course he will stay. Such a beat up.

 

[True Believer]

Too right. They have made list decisions with these players very much a part of their plans.

Fair enough to make teams pay a fair price, but pulling the rug from under clubs isn't right.

Well they pulled the rug from under us, and Melbourne etc, they changed the Academy rules, and then changed them back again!!!!

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Did Aleer sleep with your partner or something? lol.

Like a dog with a bone.

The Saints aren't signing Aleer to be full back in the VFL, mate.

If they do not believe he is first choice at least initially, they wouldn't be acquiring him.

That is not the intention whatsoever. Yeah it might happen down the line if he is shit, but that has not happened yet so not worried about it.

I would assume that Tauru will move forward - also Howard, Silvagni don't have great injury records either.

Depth is great.

Other than that, a reasonable effort with your team IMO. Boxshall is likely in the senior side. Ryan will play ahead of Butler if both are head-to-head for a spot and fit IMO.

EDIT: Missed Steele in the VFL - not happening either. He is either playing mainly seniors or is at a different club.

So how many key defenders do you want in the team? Who do you pick in the seniors from Wilkie, Howard, Silvagni, Aleer, Tauru and Caminiti? Keeping in mind that King, Sharman, Marshall and Owens are automatic marking forward picks so there is no room Caminiti or Tauru forward.

I think that Steele should be traded if we can get anything back for him. Not sure that's going to happen though. I also don't think there's any point in keeping both Marshall and TDK (would have preferred to just have Marshall at less than half the cost of TDK but that ship has sailed)

 

[mad-saint-guy]

ryan is recruited to play

i dont know what i was watching,but steele cooked at the end?i thought he played the best football we have seen from him since his slump,towards the end of the season

I agree that any mature players who are recruited should be in the best 22, I'm just not convinced that Ryan or Aleer qualify.

Steele looked like late-career Armo towards the end of the season. Couldn't bend over to pick up a ground ball and was getting caught far too often.

 

[Max the great]

This joints insane. We finally get some good news.. NAS staying, land TDK and JSOS and you all lose your mind and legitimately think we are going to lose Wilkie. He isn't going anywhere. Get a god damned grip!!

 

[tomjoad]

I agree that any mature players who are recruited should be in the best 22, I'm just not convinced that Ryan or Aleer qualify.

Steele looked like late-career Armo towards the end of the season. Couldn't bend over to pick up a ground ball and was getting caught far too often.

Was playing sore for most the year.
I understand people thinking we should trade him, and or move past him as captain etc. but we still need mids. We've potentially got good kids coming through, but they still need time and a buffer.
Steele is not what he was, but he can still pinch up forward and rotate with a guy like Pou.

 

[Lennylegs]

This joints insane. We finally get some good news.. NAS staying, land TDK and JSOS and you all lose your mind and legitimately think we are going to lose Wilkie. He isn't going anywhere. Get a god damned grip!!

100% agree. If people on here are seriously unhappy with what the club are doing right now, then I'd have to question people's grasp of what's coming up for the competition in the next few years with Tassie coming in. If you're not competitive and challenging the top eight now, then you're probably looking at another 5 to 10 years of bottom 6 mediocrity.

Also the flow on effect of these signings is its own momentum. Nothing but good news at the moment. Got people at the club who are actually turning the wheel rather than just talking shit about it. As a club we're standing on business for the first time in about 15 years. I don't how anyone could be unhappy about that.

One of the curses of being a st Kilda supporter is having to deal with so many sad sack fellow supporters. Does my head in.

 

[TheJackal]

We have to upgrade Caminiti, Fincher is looking like he will definitely be drafted by us. Based on that, and the fact primary list spots are very limited for us, it's highly likely we'll only have 1 live draft pick this year.

 

[crasha301]

In regards to trading Steele, do we believe windy is now ready to take that position on a FT basis?

 

[Yawkey way]

I know this isn't your argument, but I hate this reasoning.

Crowd numbers shouldn't matter. The Cats should never have to play Collingwood, Melbourne, Richmond or Essendon at the G as a home game, period.

And I hate the Cats.

They'll happily have Sydney play GWS at the Giants home ground (-25000 potential tickets at a minimum), or Brisbane play at GC's home ground (-12000 tickets).

The league is money hungry and so much of what they do is driven by crowd numbers.

It wont change for several reasons, self interest is the horse that’s always running to win. We’re on the outside looking in trying as hard as to can to get some change, how’s that working out ?.

We’re getting smashed from all sides for having the gall to ask for a fair go. The league isn’t about equality they pay lip service to it and nothing more.

I don’t support the current system I just don’t see it changing in a hurry.

 

[Bob Butter]

In regards to trading Steele, do we believe windy is now ready to take that position on a FT basis?

Windy looks to be a winger who can run with someone if needed. Macrae took Steele’s spot. Then you have (potentially) Flanders or Mackenzie, Nas, Phillipou, Garcia, Boxshall, Hall, Wilson, Travaglia etc all going though there. I don’t think there’s much room for Steele at this point of his career if we can get a half decent return.

 

[The_Snake26]

Depends. What good is pick 15 in a draft many are saying isn't that deep?

If we turned Marshall into Flanders I could live with that.

*Id prefer to keep Marshall and find another way to get Flanders

 

[beside the seaside]

If we turned Marshall into Flanders I could live with that.

*Id prefer to keep Marshall and find another way to get Flanders

If we are losing Heath and have delisted Boyd, if we were to lose Marshall we'd need another ruck.

If we keep Marshall we have really nice ruck depth and can play around with the combos.

 

[gringo2011]

Imma kind of curious too.
The stats are so close, but I know JSos was their relief ruckman like Mitchito was for us. Other wise, that’s stats are so similar, with Battle getting a few more. But then again, we’ve been on the defensive a lot and and Silvagni played both ends for them

JSOS has always been thrown around rather than let him settle in a role. Carlton have really high end KP talent so he's been forced to fit in around them. Probably similar to Battle's early career. This year looked like he'd found his feet in a consistent backline role.

 

[ScrappyDo]

This joints insane. We finally get some good news.. NAS staying, land TDK and JSOS and you all lose your mind and legitimately think we are going to lose Wilkie. He isn't going anywhere. Get a god damned grip!!

You can't stop it. The mental conditioning this club has done to the supporter base is deep.

 

[Saints43]

I dont mind Jack Riewoldt personally

Someone could explain to him how we pronounce 'defence' in Australia.
He says 'dee-fense', the 'd50', attack is 'offense'. Go get a job on ESPN if you want to be a yank.
Oh, and my favorite of JRs: He used his creativeness to find a target...
FFS

We're probably only a few years away from a Fox commentator using 'versing'.

 

[Saintbloke]

Someone could explain to him how we pronounce 'defence' in Australia.
He says 'dee-fense', the 'd50', attack is 'offense'. Go get a job on ESPN if you want to be a yank.
Oh, and my favorite of JRs: He used his creativeness to find a target...
FFS

We're probably only a few years away from a Fox commentator using 'versing'.

It's enough to make you go to the "bathroom"

 

[jimmytigs]

(would have preferred to just have Marshall at less than half the cost of TDK but that ship has sailed)

please please get that message in the last 5 words particularly out there to a few others here,my fxxking goodness they just cant get it

 

[SaintsofSteel]

You can't stop it. The mental conditioning this club has done to the supporter base is deep.

I can see the difference in age from peoples attitude and trust of the club.

Supporters of our generation who have been supporting the club for as long as we have, lived through 70 & 80's. When (excluding Fitzroy) we were the worst run and poorest club in the competition for decades and were that bad we nearly folded. In the 80's we were excited if we won more than 2 games a year and then in the 90's we finally make the finals two years running. Then only a couple of years later to sell off the best player ever to pull on a Saints jumper (Tony Lockett) again because we were broke.

Then we went through the rock star years of Grant Thomas and Rod Butters, not to mention the number of coaches we have sacked over the journey good and bad. Apart from the last few years St Kilda have been an administrative basket case and our onfield performances generally reflected that.

Then dont get us started on how and why we lost the 74', 97, 2009 & 2010 grand finals.

So given the trauma that following/loving the club has caused over the years, trust and excitement are not always the first emotion that jumps out for long term supporters. So you youngens will have to forgive us if we dont share the same amount of trust in the club that you enjoy!

 

[Joffaboy]

100% agree. If people on here are seriously unhappy with what the club are doing right now, then I'd have to question people's grasp of what's coming up for the competition in the next few years with Tassie coming in. If you're not competitive and challenging the top eight now, then you're probably looking at another 5 to 10 years of bottom 6 mediocrity.

Also the flow on effect of these signings is its own momentum. Nothing but good news at the moment. Got people at the club who are actually turning the wheel rather than just talking shit about it. As a club we're standing on business for the first time in about 15 years. I don't how anyone could be unhappy about that.

One of the curses of being a st Kilda supporter is having to deal with so many sad sack fellow supporters. Does my head in.

Very interesting article by Wilson in the Age today about the strategy adopted by the Saints and it is exactly what has been discussed here.
1.Put in place over a year ago
2. Supporter groups saw Saints as 'meek'. I remember saying similar in the after season review the Saints sens members, I obviously wasn't alone.
3. Deliberate FU to other clubs over FS and NGA. Effect is rule changes in 26
4. Confirmed that NWM would not have been traded and would have ended in the PSD going to WCE.
5. Lyon decided in August to go after JSOS, and got Allen on to it.
6 The big one is her affirmation that we only paid 83% of the SC this year. And also money for Billings and Crouch
So my calculations for excess SC
2 X 5% Savings on SC = 1.83 million
17% in Savings in 25. = 3.11 million

A warchest of nearly 5 million.
Unknowns and estimates
Billings and Crouch = 500k?
All contracts have no future SC increases built in, estimates vary but likely 1.5 to 2 million increase.
After paying 95% of the cap a club can pay 105% the following year, not sure if this is part of the current calculations but a potential 915k extra.
So what we can confidently say is Saints had a minimum 5 million to spend in trade period 2025.
If the 105% rule is invoked this year, that's 5.9 million.
Then going take off Billings and Crouch, we could have had up to 6.5 million over the cap to spend in 2025.
Going forward, any increase of SC has not been factored in to contracts.
Figures have a little bit of rigour as we know the SC total, the years we saved SC, the 105 % rule on SC spend, and Wilson has mentioned a number of times 83 to 85% spend on SC in 2025.
So in future you can just laugh at idiot oppo supporters when they talk about SC, the figures, based on known facts ( except Caro's figure of course, that can't be corroborated) are all above.
As for the strategy, it is bold and decisive, has rattled the AFL, oppo clubs and coaches as can be seen by the petulant salty offer by the Western nepo babies towards a contracted and happy Wilkie.

About time this club grew some balls. I say bravo. You have got me back as a 11 game member with a reserved seat for next season.

 

[Joffaboy]

As an extra,this is easily the best time to upset the apple cart and rattled cages, especially the AFL.
This is the weakest, most shambolic, most indecisive and poorly run AFL commission and administration I have seen in history.
Demetriou, or Gill would not have let this fly and would have been vindictive towards us.
This admin has all 18 clubs unhappy, under pressure, had to move the pathetically incompetent DEI hire sideways and basically isn't coping.
Bassatt copped a whack with his attacking on FS and NGA, but others have now come out in support. In fact 14 of the clubs support him on NGA.
This AFL admin know that they have stuffed up the NGA's and are happy to be bullied into changes.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Depends. What good is pick 15 in a draft many are saying isn't that deep?

I’d back us in to find one at that number.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

The league is money hungry and so much of what they do is driven by crowd numbers.

It wont change for several reasons, self interest is the horse that’s always running to win. We’re on the outside looking in trying as hard as to can to get some change, how’s that working out ?.

We’re getting smashed from all sides for having the gall to ask for a fair go. The league isn’t about equality they pay lip service to it and nothing more.

I don’t support the current system I just don’t see it changing in a hurry.

I’m betting the next thing they start ****ing around with is finals. When you think about it 10 teams are now out of the competition leaving a big chunk of half the entire football viewers without a team to follow.
I know they try to encourage us to follow a neutral side but I for one really couldn’t give a **** now and don’t go out of my way to watch the games.
I can’t wait until it’s all over and the draft and trading begin.
It really is in the afl interest to create a more equitable comp in order to keep us all in hope but the ****heads are only interested in their million dollar salaries.

 

[SG34]

As an extra,this is easily the best time to upset the apple cart and rattled cages, especially the AFL.
This is the weakest, most shambolic, most indecisive and poorly run AFL commission and administration I have seen in history.
Demetriou, or Gill would not have let this fly and would have been vindictive towards us.
This admin has all 18 clubs unhappy, under pressure, had to move the pathetically incompetent DEI hire sideways and basically isn't coping.
Bassatt copped a whack with his attacking on FS and NGA, but others have now come out in support. In fact 14 of the clubs support him on NGA.
This AFL admin know that they have stuffed up the NGA's and are happy to be bullied into changes.

I don’t know the details at all, but I pick up the atmosphere in the Devil’s Triangle that Island Clubland- Island AFL- Island Old School Media share.

And the winds are picking up off shore and blowing towards Island AFL. First it was from Clubland, but now the media are just pummeling the AFL daily and getting away with it. Fox Footy , Bucks, Jon Ralph saying the umpiring is disgraceful and that the umps should know they have to be subjective in finals. the AFL are trying to be consistent, but when the media is saying, ‘No, you don’t, it is a final!’ Kinda nuts.

But it helps us. Bassat was a hound at the start of the year, but now the other dogs are barking.