List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[Saints4ever]

Flanders for pick 7 yes please.

Flanders is a jet.

Tonights game changes nothing.

 

[Molly29]

Saw MacKenzie had a decent game with 31 touches. Voss in the other VFL match up to 21 and 7 marks at half time!

Ill order both thank you!

Jackson Voss has had a fantastic year - definitely worth picking up with a late pick

 

[hangdog]

Saw MacKenzie had a decent game with 31 touches. Voss in the other VFL match up to 21 and 7 marks at half time!

Ill order both thank you!

C Mac with 10 clearances too.

 

[Molly29]

Tobie over Murphy is in danger of becoming the new Billings over Bont or Paddy over Petracca after year 1.

Kinda joking, but honestly, Murphy Reid is a bloody gun and we all knew it!!!

Our recruiters have done really well but could have/should have been Middle Park boy Murphy Reid over Travaglia...sorry Tobie

 

[hayes]

That also seems reasonably bizarre to me, given we’ve played finals once in 15 years and missed the 8 by 6 wins this year.

Generally to win a flag you need to be having a prolonged crack at it over a number of years, ideally with a group that mostly came through together, so surely our window doesn’t genuinely open until 2027 at the very, very earliest.

Regardless, as I said, Aleer doesn’t seem to be an upgrade on Caminiti even right now, so with Hammer being two years younger and having barely done an AFL preseason yet, there’s every chance he’s the better player of the two next year anyway.

He regularly played on gun KPF’s this year and wasn’t disgraced, and from at least two less games in defence than Battle, took more intercept marks than the AA KPD, more contested marks (17-11) and had a whopping 140 spoils to Battle’s 66!

Aleer isn’t better than that, surely, despite being two years older and presumably having multiple preseasons under his belt.

And I’d bet a lot of money we aren’t planning on relegating Tauru to the VFL.

So for mine, it makes no sense whenever we’re hoping to contend.

I agree that Caminiti could be a good defender but I’d be willing to bet a pretty large amount of money that he ends up forward which is why we’re going after so many defenders to make sure he can stay there.

 

[Molly29]

C Mac with 10 clearances too.

Do we hand over pick 7 for CMac should the opportunity arise? Can't get my head around handing over a very high draft pick for someone who's not best 22 for his side.
The kid has some great attributes but I've noticed he always gets caught with the ball.

 

[hangdog]

I believe the doctor was concerned about the amount of puffiness and instability in his knees, however the medico was shortsighted and had mistakenly examined the girlfriend’s protuberances.

 

[L_W_P]

They'll want him. They're chasing flags. Getting close but no cigar as often as they do would frustrate them. If they think Ro can help get them a flag or two they'll want him.

But the ruck isn't really their issue. It's not like Max Gawn & Brodie Grundy are ripping them apart in finals. They'd be better off using the pick to try and grab someone like Butters or Merrett.

Even Curnow, if they think they can make it work with him, Jez & Neale for a couple of years.

They are finishing top 4 year on year with Stanley, Blicavs & SDK.

I actually think they'd get more out of grabbing Jake Lever or Steven May and playing SDK as their ruck full time.

I'll gladly take their first round pick if they wanna do that deal, I'm just not getting my hopes up for it because it doesn't really make sense for them IMO

 

[aussierulesrules]

I agree that Caminiti could be a good defender but I’d be willing to bet a pretty large amount of money that he ends up forward which is why we’re going after so many defenders to make sure he can stay there.

Yeah maybe, but if Max is out there, are we playing all of Max, Hammer, Sharman and Owens up there? Plus maybe a Marshall/Dodson/Keeler as a 2nd-ruck or forward-ruck?

 

[hangdog]

Do we hand over pick 7 for CMac should the opportunity arise? Can't get my head around handing over a very high draft pick for someone who's not best 22 for his side.
The kid has some great attributes but I've noticed he always gets caught with the ball.

I never suggested we should.

 

[PJays]

Flanders for pick 7 yes please.

Flanders is a jet.

Is he as good as these former pick 7s?

Andrew Mackie
Jordan Lewis
Joel Selwood
Paddy Ryder
Daniel Rich
Josh Caddy
Nick Haynes
Ollie Wines
Bailey Smith
Jacob Hopper
Hayden Young

Although will it really be pick 7? What numbers it actually going to be after Allen compo etc?

And this is supposed to be a weak draft, too.

 

[stavro#4]

But the ruck isn't really their issue. It's not like Max Gawn & Brodie Grundy are ripping them apart in finals. They'd be better off using the pick to try and grab someone like Butters or Merrett.

Even Curnow, if they think they can make it work with him, Jez & Neale for a couple of years.

They are finishing top 4 year on year with Stanley, Blicavs & SDK.

I actually think they'd get more out of grabbing Jake Lever or Steven May and playing SDK as their ruck full time.

I'll gladly take their first round pick if they wanna do that deal, I'm just not getting my hopes up for it because it doesn't really make sense for them IMO

Witt’s tonight.

21 disposals 15 contested
99 ruck contests 44 hitouts
8 clearances
4 score involvements
7 pressure acts.

Mammoth.

Guess we all see rucks differently. But when they are dominant. They are so valuable

 

[littlecreatures]

Is he as good as these former pick 7s?

Andrew Mackie
Jordan Lewis
Joel Selwood
Paddy Ryder
Daniel Rich
Josh Caddy
Nick Haynes
Ollie Wines
Bailey Smith
Jacob Hopper
Hayden Young

Although will it really be pick 7? What numbers it actually going to be after Allen compo etc?

And this is supposed to be a weak draft, too.

What’s your point? Do you have a list for the shittest pick 7s of all time too, or just the best?

 

[Sainter62]

Loving the narrative in the media (this time Malthouse etc) stating that it is typical St Kilda paying overs for mediocre players. TBH do not give a flying fk what the external narrative is - if we nail this off season I'll be damn happy.

To do that I think we still need to lock in Flanders, that would cover all lines and address an immediate need - the midfield.

TDK, Ryan and Silvagni are legit without giving up draft capital.

WE will not know until this time next year but the in's along with Phillipou, Wilson, King, NWM, Travaglia, Hastia, Tarau, Boxshall, Sharman, Hall, Windhager (please), Owens gives us a very good young squad ready to have a crack.

We have to trade for Ryan

 

[Saints4ever]

Is he as good as these former pick 7s?

Andrew Mackie
Jordan Lewis
Joel Selwood
Paddy Ryder
Daniel Rich
Josh Caddy
Nick Haynes
Ollie Wines
Bailey Smith
Jacob Hopper
Hayden Young

Although will it really be pick 7? What numbers it actually going to be after Allen compo etc?

And this is supposed to be a weak draft, too.

Oscar Allen Compo
Tom De Koning Compo
Sam Draper Compo Maybe
NGA picks.
Pick 7 pushes out past 10 easily.

Flanders was pick 11 in his draft

 

[SainterinSydney]

Our recruiters have done really well but could have/should have been Middle Park boy Murphy Reid over Travaglia...sorry Tobie

Don't discount Tobie. As I previously posted, Lenny spoke very highly of him when I talked to him at training after Melbourne game. Said Tobie was in their on the weekend studying Noah Anderson footage. Lenny specifically brought Tobie up in the conversation without prompting.

 

[Saints4ever]

Witt’s tonight.

21 disposals 15 contested
99 ruck contests 44 hitouts
8 clearances
4 score involvements
7 pressure acts.

Mammoth.

Guess we all see rucks differently. But when they are dominant. They are so valuable

I love a dominant ruck also.

Cats 14 prelims in 18 years and haven’t had a dominant ruck in years so it can work without one.

You can survive without an elite ruck but given the choice you take the dominant ruck everyday if you can.

 

[hangdog]

WA media is from a different, terrible planet

 

[PJays]

What’s your point? Do you have a list for the shittest pick 7s of all time too, or just the best?

The point is Flanders, at 24 years old, would wanna be pretty good to outweigh the probability of getting a player like that for potentially 14-15 years.

(Again depending on what number it's actually supposed to be, and factoring in judgement about the weakness of this particular draft).

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Flanders- 14 disposals @ 64 DE= 35 fantasy points
Probably means we are getting him
Yeah, no thanks
Save pick 12? for Cumming or mini- Pou

 

[aussierulesrules]

When looking through some of those stats for Aleer and then Hammer, I noticed some interesting ones for the great AA key defender Josh Battle

24

Josh Battle

Age

27

Ht

193cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

196.8

3star

D

11.0

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

142.8

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

175.6

3star

. Then also some even more interesting ones for SOSOS.

Battle:

Intercept marks per game- 104th
Contested marks per game- 189th
Spoils- 92nd
Intercepts per game- 26th
1%ers- 83rd
Rebound 50’s- 64th
Contested defensive losses %- 20%

SOSOS:

Intercept marks pg- 39th
Contested marks- 31st
Spoils- 22nd
Intercepts 27th
1%ers- 20th
Contested defensive losses % 16.7%

That contested defensive losses % put Jack at about 6th best for those who played key defence for at least 5 games this year.

Loss percentages:

13%- Jacob Weitering

23

Jacob Weitering

Age

28

Ht

195cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.8

4star

K

9.1

4star

HB

4.7

3star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.3

3star

MG

189.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

16.8

4star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.0

4star

M

6.0

5star

T

0.8

3star

MG

263.4

4star

13%- Zach Reid
15%- Jake Lever

8

Jake Lever

Age

29

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.6

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

4.9

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.3

3star

MG

242.0

4star

D

9.6

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

3.1

2star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.3

2star

MG

145.4

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

11.0

4star

HB

5.0

4star

M

6.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

189.8

4star

17%- Harry Himmelberg
17%- Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

29

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

17%- Jack Silvagni

1

Jack Silvagni

Age

27

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

MG

176.9

3star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

MG

91.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

MG

131.4

3star

17%- Sam Taylor

15

Sam Taylor

Age

26

Ht

198cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.1

4star

MG

130.5

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

2.5

1star

HB

5.5

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.5

3star

MG

60.8

1star

D

8.6

3star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.2

2star

T

2.8

5star

MG

110.8

2star

17%- Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

17%- Darcy Gardiner

27

Darcy Gardiner

Age

30

Ht

192cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.6

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.1

4star

T

2.1

4star

G

0.0

1star

D

10.7

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.1

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

10.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.0

1star

20%- Wilkie

29%- Tauru

33%- Dougal

35%- Hammer

50%- Aleer

 

[my name was taken]

Witt’s tonight.

21 disposals 15 contested
99 ruck contests 44 hitouts
8 clearances
4 score involvements
7 pressure acts.

Mammoth.

Guess we all see rucks differently. But when they are dominant. They are so valuable

It will be very interesting when ruck rule changes for the big rucks like Witts and Darcy.

 

[billings2paddy]

View attachment 2419088

WA media is from a different, terrible planet

West Australian is very pro west coast and completely biased towards freo.
The main journalists are all die hard eagles.
You have to be when your boss is the 10th richest person in the country Kerry Stokes.
Stokes is also the owner of channel 7 and a diehard eagles supporter
Makes sense.

 

[Saints4ever]

I don’t think we should be judging Flanders worth on 1 game.

If he has 25 next week is he back to be worth pick 7?

Body of work.

 

[stavro#4]

I love a dominant ruck also.

Cats 14 prelims in 18 years and haven’t had a dominant ruck in years so it can work without one.

You can survive without an elite ruck but given the choice you take the dominant ruck everyday if you can.

Agreed.

However just with Geelong. They haven’t just had superstars. They have been blessed with some generational type of elite talents. Even now, strongly led by Cameron and Danger.