List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Hill looks absolutely cooked and Windhager looked excellent on the wing late in the year. I'd say he's a better wingman right now.

Wingmen are supposed to be fast?

 

[BrutThough]

battle was already gone by the time we upped the offer.

Battle was offered a long term deal at 850k a year by round 2, as reported on Fox Footy the night we beat Collingwood.

Where did this narrative that we weren't trying to keep him coming from because our public actions show otherwise.

 

[gringo2011]

So in short. Because you like the player you can justify the amount.

He has us over a barrel due to other offers. $200k over perceived value per season isn't breaking the cap. Paying $1.7 million for a B grade ruck on potential is a huge risk over an 8 year contract.

Even pretending they are the same thing makes us both a bit dumber for having considered it.

 

[akaifu]

None of those guys have even been consistent best 22 yet. I thought we had three trillion dollars of cap space anyway? The cap going up has added a couple of hundred grand to all new contracts it seems. It's not going backwards any time soon. Statistically only about 20 of players even play 100 games or something. There is no guarantee that any will be stars and probably take 3 more years to get to Windy level anyway.

Just because we have money, doesn't mean we stop being smart with it. It sounds hypocritical since we are forking out 1.7 for TDK, but as I said before, that's the cost of not only extracting a star player from a rival club, but also keeping our first rounders while doing it. It's different to overpaying a role player purely because he 'wants' it

Those guys not being best 22 is kind of my point, we've seen some nice glimpses from them but now they need consistency at AFL level. That is made harder when Windy is in the team - who absolutely deserves it but its not a big loss if he leaves especially when the opportunity cost is keeping him on 800k

 

[bergholt]

I reckon he could be an A grader next year. Ideally as wingman who has runs on ball, tags when needed etc. He's our most advanced youth player after Nas.

Yeah he got 24 coaches votes this year, equal 5th for the club along with Marshall, behind Macrae (just), Wilkie, Sinclair, Nas. All of those were in the second half of the year once he was shifted to the wing. If he keeps up that form for the whole year he's very close to A grade.

 

[gringo2011]

Just because we have money, doesn't mean we stop being smart with it. It sounds hypocritical since we are forking out 1.7 for TDK, but as I said before, that's the cost of not only extracting a star player from a rival club, but also keeping our first rounders while doing it. It's different to overpaying a role player purely because he 'wants' it

Those guys not being best 22 is kind of my point, we've seen some nice glimpses from them but now they need consistency at AFL level. That is made harder when Windy is in the team - who absolutely deserves it but its not a big loss if he leaves especially when the opportunity cost is keeping him on 800k

Not sure about you but the same people arguing about how responsible TDK offered were are now saying we need to be sensible. Seems a weirdly contradictory position.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

not the hill to die on

True but how much of a future do Hill & Wood have for that matter. Who plays on our wings after they are gone? The way the club are going they will oust Windy and then next year recognise they need players who are versatile and can play on a wing.

The same was mentioned about my disapproval of recruiting Boyd last year - how did he work out. Made a huge contribution and has a big future in the game hasn't he.

 

[gringo2011]

Yeah he got 24 coaches votes this year, equal 5th for the club along with Marshall, behind Macrae (just), Wilkie, Sinclair, Nas. All of those were in the second half of the year once he was shifted to the wing. If he keeps up that form for the whole year he's very close to A grade.

I think he averaged around 21 possession a game. Get to 25 on a wing and that's probably A grade. I can see him easily stepping that up with less minding duties. He had some huge games.

 

[Joffaboy]

He has us over a barrel due to other offers. $200k over perceived value per season isn't breaking the cap. Paying $1.7 million for a B grade ruck on potential is a huge risk over an 8 year contract.

Even pretending they are the same thing makes us both a bit dumber for having considered it.

I have heard Windy is being offered nearly a million a year.

 

[stavro#4]

He has us over a barrel due to other offers. $200k over perceived value per season isn't breaking the cap. Paying $1.7 million for a B grade ruck on potential is a huge risk over an 8 year contract.

Even pretending they are the same thing makes us both a bit dumber for having considered it.

Doesn’t really seem like the club is stressed “being over a barrel” in the way they were with Nas.

Which is the point. If this another player you didn’t like. You wouldn’t care. But you rate Windy so you think it’s stupid and we should pay up.

 

[akaifu]

Leek Aleer to request a trade to St Kilda this week, per Jon Ralph

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Regardless, it is not true we didn't want Battle, the $$$ showed we did.
Anyway JSOS and Tauru gor Battle is a win in my book.

Absolute rubbish.

Barratt came out after and said their were mistakes made and also made changes in coterie assistance for family members at the games.

When he said he was leaving the club then banned him from the B&F, you don't do that to players you are happy to lose!

 

[Ads734]

Really not happy with the Windy treatment considering what we’re paying SOS TDK and co. Wi du likely to be top 5 in BnF and one of our emerging leaders. I don’t get why the club sees his cieling so low. He’s improved every single year. Shortsighted imo.

On the other hand the comp taking out players and them being good ie Battle and Long is a great sign of our overall growth and development.

 

[Joffaboy]

You delight in friction. If people are having a sensible conversation you inject yourself in with your trade mark boorishness trying to start fights. Not sure I'd point fingers.

It was a convo between me and StC and you inserted yourself into it, arguing for arguments sake.
I asked when did the club not want Battle to stay considering we offered more money.
No need to get emotional about it. Maybe don't inject yourself into a conversation unless you know what is being discussed.

 

[gringo2011]

Would have preferred OCallaghan, or Merrett, or LDU, or Kelly or DeGoey but none wanted to come to the club.
We had to pay to get a player ( and nobody really knows what he is being paid but have been PM'ed that it works out to 1.4 a year if he doesn't get injured or stinks it up).
First we re-signed NAZ, that helped attract two FA's, therefore no draft capital, no Ryan wants to come and we don't know who else.
We need to retool and get into finals. Once that happens the place becomes more attractive for established players.

We had to try and realign the perception of the club.
Now on the coming season we need to improve on field.

Once you have tied up that money in a couple of good but not exceptional players things tighten up and you can't afford to pay them. Carlton was hamstrung that way and shedded players last year due to massive contracts to a small pool of players. Their stars are on top dollar and their ring ins were too. Left nothing left to chase established talent.

Losing Windhager makes us less likely to play finals and less likely to keep Nas in 2 years.

 

[gringo2011]

Wingmen are supposed to be fast?

He's not slow and Wood and Hill are not exactly sprinters these days.

 

[stavro#4]

Giants defender Aleer will tell the Giants at his exit meeting on Monday or Tuesday that he intends to seek a trade to St Kilda.
The first-round pick from the 2021 national draft will join the Saints on a four-year deal and while Jack Silvagni

1

Jack Silvagni

Age

27

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

MG

176.9

3star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

MG

91.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

MG

131.4

3star

will move to St Kilda on a five-year deal worth over $800,000 it has not swayed the Saints from targeting Aleer.

St Kilda will have Cal Wilkie, interceptor Aleer, full back Silvagni and young gun Alix Tauru in their backline as well as Anthony Caminiti.

While Wilkie has been offered a long-term deal at the Western Bulldogs he is happy at the Saints, who would be wise to re-contract him on a higher rate.

He is contracted until the end of 2027 and while the Saints offered him a $50,000 bonus at the start of the year his deal does not have pay rises linked to the AFL’s collective bargaining agreement factored in so has not cashed in on the increases of the most recent pay deal.

 

[Joffaboy]

Absolute rubbish.

Barratt came out after and said their were mistakes made and also made changes in coterie assistance for family members at the games.

When he said he was leaving the club then banned him from the B&F, you don't do that to players you are happy to lose!

Calm down.
All of this might be true, but we were not happy to see him go as can be seen by us offering more $$$ than Hawthorn did.
Not being asked to the B&F was a response to him lying to coach and teammates he was staying the day before he left, which is a totally different subject.
And you may not agree, but Tauru and JSOS for Battle is a good return.

 

[stavro#4]

Also Ralph

- While there will be competition for spots in defence for Aleer he is excited to move to a club that is making aggressive trade moves and believes in its finals dreams.

- St Kilda is also in the market for Gold Coast’s Sam Flanders, but is trying to fend off strong interest from North Melbourne and Melbourne in defensive midfielder Marcus Windhager.

The Roos are prepared to offer five seasons at up to $800,000 and while St Kilda has offered four years the North Melbourne offer is more lucrative.

The Demons are determined to bolster their midfield so are chasing Windhager, but at this stage do not have a first-round pick in the national draft.

 

[MrFoster]

He has us over a barrel due to other offers. $200k over perceived value per season isn't breaking the cap. Paying $1.7 million for a B grade ruck on potential is a huge risk over an 8 year contract.

Even pretending they are the same thing makes us both a bit dumber for having considered it.

Aren't the first couple of years front loaded? so it's not really $1.7M is it? No one knows for sure, but I would imagine the actual amount per year is much lower than the reported $1.7M. Maybe 1$.2-1.3M. At least let's hope that's the case.

 

[Joffaboy]

Really not happy with the Windy treatment considering what we’re paying SOS TDK and co. Wi du likely to be top 5 in BnF and one of our emerging leaders. I don’t get why the club sees his cieling so low. He’s improved every single year. Shortsighted imo.

On the other hand the comp taking out players and them being good ie Battle and Long is a great sign of our overall growth and development.

Yes a weird take by the club, like their keenness on Aleer.
Would rather ditch Aleer and keep Windy.

 

[stavro#4]

Absolute rubbish.

Barratt came out after and said their were mistakes made and also made changes in coterie assistance for family members at the games.

When he said he was leaving the club then banned him from the B&F, you don't do that to players you are happy to lose!

He was banned from the BnF because he told the coach and playing group he was staying and then dropped a big boy what’s app text and left.

Had he been honest and genuine from the start. He would have been at the BnF.

 

[Joffaboy]

Aren't the first couple of years front loaded? so it's not really $1.7M is it? No one knows for sure, but I would imagine the actual amount per year is much lower than the reported $1.7M. Maybe 1$.2-1.3M. At least let's hope that's the case.

Apparently it is 1.4 a season averaged, but if he is injured or stinks it up, it drops

 

[Joffaboy]

Also Ralph

- While there will be competition for spots in defence for Aleer he is excited to move to a club that is making aggressive trade moves and believes in its finals dreams.

- St Kilda is also in the market for Gold Coast’s Sam Flanders, but is trying to fend off strong interest from North Melbourne and Melbourne in defensive midfielder Marcus Windhager.

The Roos are prepared to offer five seasons at up to $800,000 and while St Kilda has offered four years the North Melbourne offer is more lucrative.

The Demons are determined to bolster their midfield so are chasing Windhager, but at this stage do not have a first-round pick in the national draft.

Still can't see it with Aleer.

 

[Ads734]

He is the epitome of a B grader that we have filled our list with over the years.

Yes he played wing and half back. But you are zeroing in on the fact the he tags and plays a few other positions.

Let’s have an honest conversation about Windy. Elite trainer and standard setter.

But unless tagging - doesn’t have a huge impact on the win. Can often be really detrimental to the ebbs and flows of a game with his poor kicking - EVIDENT by clubs willingly allowing him to roam free at half back or wing at the end of the year.

I don’t want to lose him. But he isn’t an 800K or above player. Again, I thought it would be youthful immaturity right now and he would calm down - but if he truly wants that money today and don’t I blame him, I also don’t see that happening with us.

It’s worth reminding everyone, we finished 12th and everyone has wanted or at times demanded we throw bags at our own players to retain them. That isn’t the balance that gets us up the ladder.

He has improved every single year. There is no reason to suggest he won’t keep improving.

Ed Richards was solid untill he wasn’t.
Josh Dunkley the same

I just don’t get this idea he has reached his cieling beyond mind boggling.