Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXIX

[Blue_Fusion]

Some things to think about...

• GC won't want to part with #6... they need it for Uwland bid...
• Gov has a trade value of 4th rounder
• Lij we'll be giving him away and maybe even paying some of his salary too
• Acres maybe has 3rd rounder if we're lucky
• Motlop, late 3rd
• Fogarty, Durdin, Boyd all worth a 4th rounder if we're lucky
• Binns no value

So unless we're willing to part with someone decent, we're not getting any decent picks back... no decent picks back, no decent players coming in...

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Gulden has to want out too... good luck with that...

This is where the club gets creative: cue our newly formed Carlton Department of Espionage, hard at work photoshopping snaps of Gulden’s girlfriend on a romantic dinner date with Sam Wicks.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Our forward line already is the 18th efficient in the competition. It can’t get any worse.

Don't forget we're talking about Carlton here... just when you think you've seen it all, they invent new ways to let us down...

 

[Blue and Silver]

Gold Coast will want to trade pick 6 for more index value.

They could trade it for pick 13 and 19 and end up ahead on points for example

 

[Opium]

Yes, we are...

The loss of TDK + Jack + Lij as well as some depth with Doc, Cinc and Fanta... plus chance to lose Charlie as well...

Our senior core group are in decline with age. I don't want to hear any of this "but Collingwood" nonsense... this core group isn't going to suddenly improve in their 30's... Pies players already played in flags, they are better footballers. End of.

Saad, Newman, Haynes, Hewett, Cripps, Acres, Williams, Gov all will struggle more often than not.

Pitto as main ruck... potentially Reidy as back up? come on...

Harry has never played a full season. It's not a matter of if he goes down, but when. Should we lose Charlie... our forward line will be the worst in the comp.

Constantly rotating these inept forwards: Motlop + Williams + Fogarty + White + Evans + Durdin is not anywhere near good enough. (yeah I know Evans let's see how he goes next year)

Sure, we will add a bit this off season, but we're not linked to any needle movers.. Buku, Petch, Chesser, Rosas etc. all fringe players.

Our midfield can't kick i50... they are just incapable of hitting targets... Cerra was one of the worst offenders this year and he's supposed to be one of our best kicks...

Our mids and forwards are coached by Clarke and Russell still as it stands...

Can't expect Jagga in his first year to change the midfield dynamic... the core will still be Cripps, Hewett, Cerra and Walsh. One dimensional and one paced that can't kick i50, can't run defensively, have no clue how to setup d50 stoppages, stagnant when our half backs have the ball, can't run and carry, can't hit targets, handball to the boots of team mates etc.

Good post as these are facts. We may as rebuild sooner rather than later. Again!

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Our forward line already is the 18th efficient in the competition. It can’t get any worse.

And it was top 3 mid 2023 to mid 2024. I think 2024 alone was top 6. I don't think talent was the biggest issue last year. Attitudes, plans, health, effort, buy in etc

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Exactly.
Highly unlikely a deal gets done for Curnow.

Yeah I don't think anyone is doubting how unlikely it is.

 

[SirSanchez]

Apologies if I have missed this somewhere in the hundreds of pages of comments.

But Walter and pick 6. How is that even anywhere near close enough for CC?

Trading a proven star, dual Coleman medallist for potential. Pick 6 might be good. Walter might become good. A lot of ifs and unknowns.
Don’t know if id be ok or comfortable with that trade.

I agree GC have more to offer than Sydney. But id want heaps more for CC

 

[Stamos]

Yeah I don't think anyone is doubting how unlikely it is.

Many in the media seem to be

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Good post as these are facts. We may as rebuild sooner rather than later. Again!

Can't be successful if you're too afraid to fail.

Last rebuild didn't work out, doesn't mean another one won't either. Need to have the right people to make good decisions. We clearly didn't have that and as a result, butchered 4 drafts in a row, mismanaged contracts, allowed standards to slip and allowed the inmates to run the asylum...

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Many in the media seem to be

Well of course, they obv want the headlines...

I meant our forum.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Apologies if I have missed this somewhere in the hundreds of pages of comments.

But Walter and pick 6. How is that even anywhere near close enough for CC?

Trading a proven star, dual Coleman medallist for potential. Pick 6 might be good. Walter might become good. A lot of ifs and unknowns.
Don’t know if id be ok or comfortable with that trade.

I agree GC have more to offer than Sydney. But id want heaps more for CC

Judd went for 3, 20 and Kennedy.

Judd had more value than Curnow does, but it's very similar...

 

[BringFevBack2021]

Apologies if I have missed this somewhere in the hundreds of pages of comments.

But Walter and pick 6. How is that even anywhere near close enough for CC?

Trading a proven star, dual Coleman medallist for potential. Pick 6 might be good. Walter might become good. A lot of ifs and unknowns.
Don’t know if id be ok or comfortable with that trade.

I agree GC have more to offer than Sydney. But id want heaps more for CC

Higher goals per game than CC at the same stage of his career, though not nearly as athletic as Charlie

I think Walter and pick 6 for Curnow who will be 29 at seasons start is probably a good result for us, and Charlie is my favourite Carlton player ever after Fevola

 

[SirSanchez]

Judd went for 3, 20 and Kennedy.

Judd had more value than Curnow does, but it's very similar...

So that was Two top end picks and potential.
We’re suggesting one top pick and potential for CC.

I’d also suggest Kennedy was the exception not the rule. What I mean by that is. He (Kennedy) turned out to be an amazing star for WCE. That’s not the norm. More often than not potential doesn’t work out how you want it to.

 

[The Bighouse]

Our forward line already is the 18th efficient in the competition. It can’t get any worse.

Prefer to be labelled the #1 inefficient forward line in the league.

 

[katmanblue]

Just going to add a name that I’m surprised hasn’t been discussed when it comes to Sydney and Charlie trade. Get McCartin and a future 1st for Charlie and 35? We’d have the best key defensive duo in the league. Add Newman, Saad, Cowan, Hollands, Wilson, Carroll and a new defensive line coach and we could become a vaunted defensive team. Use our draft picks for players that run with and without the ball to add around the ground and we could become a scary proposition off the back of our defense alone. Just an idea.

McCartin is one concussion away from retirement

 

[Wickzki]

I caught up with someone I’ve known for years through the Southport Sharks and later the Suns. He’s been heavily involved at both clubs, long before the Suns even entered the AFL, and has had a big influence on their clubs (has been a director, etc.). His take on where the Suns are at right now was interesting.

He thinks Jed Walter is gettable for the right player. I’ve often thought of Walter as the face of their academy system, but he doesn’t see it that way. The Suns don’t rely on one poster boy anymore. In his view, Ethan Read is the standout. He ticks all of Damien Hardwick’s non-negotiables and is the one they rate the highest.

The Suns are confident they’ll hang on to their core, including Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

25

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

, for the long term. That belief, combined with Read’s development, means they could consider moving Walter. The feeling is they can’t play Walter, Read and King together in the same side. He thinks a more mobile forward would suit their balance better. Walter might be the piece that gets them that.

Walter himself is seen as a boom-or-bust type. His ceiling is very high but the floor is just as low. He’ll need the right coaching to get there and there are concerns he’s a bit more conditional than they’d like, especially compared with Read who they see as the much safer bet.

He feels that Flanders disappears out of games far too often. Can rack up possessions in a hurry but in-game consistency is a significant issue. A Walter, Flanders and picks (not 2025 as they need them) would make sense for the Suns but probably doesn't get them Curnow unless it's the most we're offered. Thinks Carlton stand firm unless we get presented overs although he suggests it might be in our best interests to take the best offer available especially if it has someone like Jed or another high-level prospect in it.

He isn’t convinced on Charlie because of the injury history and his age, although he understands why the fit makes sense

Looking at Carlton from the outside, he reckons Graham Wright is held in very high regard and feels that we'll become a juggernaut with him in three to five years. He wasn’t surprised Michael Voss was retained either. His take was that the coaching market this year was thin and the chance to make a change was 12 months ago, but we couldn’t sack Voss after last season. He thinks we need a change in list management and recruiting. He is stunned we're locking up borderline best 22 talent for multiple seasons and thinks no other club would be signing those contracts.

e: I don't think there's anything here "rumour" worthy for the no discussion thread. Another perspective valid for a post though

 

[katmanblue]

Few will believe this … but the board functions ok - and like most others is focused on strategy rather than operations.
That said, Williams was a terrible appointment as the Director of football on the board.

He was only in it to be paid even though it's meant to be a voluntary position. Had to absorb it in soft cap

 

[Blue_Fusion]

So that was Two top end picks and potential.
We’re suggesting one top pick and potential for CC.

I’d also suggest Kennedy was the exception not the rule. What I mean by that is. He (Kennedy) turned out to be an amazing star for WCE. That’s not the norm. More often than not potential doesn’t work out how you want it to.

I wouldn't be calling 20 a top end pick... they drafted Tony Notte iirc and I don't recall there being someone they missed with that pick either.

Potential doesn't always work out, 100% true, but you'd rather bring players with big potential in than not.

Walter was a pick 3 in 2023 draft. The pick 6 we get can be combined with the TDK pick to push up to pick 2. So we lose Charlie + TDK for two top 3 picks, it's not the worst result.

If Walter lives up to the potential and that pick 2 gets us Duursma then we've done very well.

 

[DZ4]

Apologies if I have missed this somewhere in the hundreds of pages of comments.

But Walter and pick 6. How is that even anywhere near close enough for CC?

Trading a proven star, dual Coleman medallist for potential. Pick 6 might be good. Walter might become good. A lot of ifs and unknowns.
Don’t know if id be ok or comfortable with that trade.

I agree GC have more to offer than Sydney. But id want heaps more for CC

Pick 6 and Walter would be one of the biggest trade hauls ever. Walter is a top tier talent, of similar worth to JJK when we moved him onto WCE for Judd. Young KPF of his ability don’t grow on trees. I see him as a Charlie clone but 8 years younger.

The problem with doing this deal is we are basically resigning ourselves to treading water or regressing in 2026, so the club need to assess whether the trade would be worth it based on that. We can potentially cover the loss of SOS and TDK but losing Charlie would be too much.

 

[The Bighouse]

I wouldn't be calling 20 a top end pick... they drafted Tony Notte iirc and I don't recall there being someone they missed with that pick either.

Potential doesn't always work out, 100% true, but you'd rather bring players with big potential in than not.

Walter was a pick 3 in 2023 draft. The pick 6 we get can be combined with the TDK pick to push up to pick 2. So we lose Charlie + TDK for two top 3 picks, it's not the worst result.

If Walter lives up to the potential and that pick 2 gets us Duursma then we've done very well.

They missed out on Dennis Armfield with #20, still available.

 

[CrippaTheGoat9]

 

[passmark]

Don't forget we're talking about Carlton here... just when you think you've seen it all, they invent new ways to let us down...

At least we’re leading edge somewhere.

 

[CoachB]

And it was top 3 mid 2023 to mid 2024. I think 2024 alone was top 6. I don't think talent was the biggest issue last year. Attitudes, plans, health, effort, buy in etc

Coaching??????

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Pick 6 and Walter would be one of the biggest trade hauls ever. Walter is a top tier talent, of similar worth to JJK when we moved him onto WCE for Judd. Young KPF of his ability don’t grow on trees. I see him as a Charlie clone but 8 years younger.

The problem with doing this deal is we are basically resigning ourselves to treading water or regressing in 2026, so the club need to assess whether the trade would be worth it based on that. We can potentially cover the loss of SOS and TDK but losing Charlie would be too much.

Unfortunately, I doubt that with HOF doing his knee.

As for TDK, he plays as another mid... Pitto is incapable of this, he doesn't take marks, he's no presence up forward and very slow. It only compounds the weaknesses of our main mids, whereas TDK had the ability to alleviate that to an extent.