List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

[Aphrodite]

 

[Dramoth]

Haven’t you cottoned on yet

and also overlooked the strait.

 

[BlueTongue]

I’d prefer a goal celebration that was the worst thing you’ve seen in your life to the stupid songs that come on and ruin my hearing after every single goal.

That’s something to get upset about

Country Road FFS. Thank God Charlie Cameron is in a form slump.

 

[Dramoth]

Who would say no?

Swans get: Curnow, Silvagni Compo
Eagles get: Warner, De Koning Compo
Blues get: Pick 1

Means we would clear our compo picks that would get eaten by a Dean bid.

 

[Dramoth]

Dude, ****ing manners…

I think he meant to say it in Swedish chef… blah de blah de blah

 

[Dramoth]

Looks a bit more free flowing in his 23 highlights.

Some good crumbing goals and smart positioning for those blind to his forward craft.

Wasn’t it two years ago that we signed Rusty to be our forwards coach? How functional has our forward line been over the last 2 years? We’ve seen this movie before.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Think my issue with Motlop is, as a #1 small forward - he is 21 with essentially 1 full pre-season under his belt.

I hope you’re right.

I don’t see him hitting the heights of any of the below:

Top Class Small Forward:
Rankin, Rachele, Bailey, Cameron, Elliott, Hill, Mannagh, Stengle, Miers, Moore, Watson, Pickett, Papley, Higgins, Weightman,

Proven Good Small Forward:
Ah Chee, McCarthy, Shultz, Ginnivan, West, Ryan.

If we could snag one or two of the above, it would make Motlop a better player.

 

[TheThunderboltKid]

I hope you’re right.

I don’t see him hitting the heights of any of the below:

Top Class Small Forward:
Rankin, Rachele, Bailey, Cameron, Elliott, Hill, Mannagh, Stengle, Miers, Moore, Watson, Pickett, Papley, Higgins, Weightman,

Proven Good Small Forward:
Ah Chee, McCarthy, Shultz, Ginnivan, West, Ryan.

If we could snag one or two of the above, it would make Motlop a better player.

To pick one at random, here is Bobby Hill at the same age.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Ollie goes at 78% disposal efficiency. Let me compare it for you.

So does Dane Zorko
Dan Houston go at 80%
Nick Daicos goes at 70%
His brother goes at 75% despite 5 more uncontested possessions per game compared to hollands.
Cam Rayner goes at 64%
Jordan Dawson goes at 63%
Hugh McCluggage goes at 68%
Adam Cerra goes at 70% who is arguably our best kick.
Bailey dale goes at 81% who is probably the best kick in the afl.

You can't have been watching much footy this year with that assessment.

Disposal efficiency stats are not completely meaningless but certainly pretty close to it. They don't take into account how many kicks were sideways across the backline to someone standing in 20m of space. They also count a long kick to a contest as an effective kick!! An effective kick on this stat is not one that was marked by a teammate.

You have to watch the games.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Yes please ... Carlton would be better if forwards kicked more Goals ... trust me.
I wanted Owies gone ... but give him credit as a reliable shot at Goal. Just not enough of them when it mattered

Edit: The bar has been set low for Motlop because all his fans are relying on his potential ... young fella ... he will improve.
It's not like he has actually delivered much so far ... so let's not set the bar too high eh?

Trading out Owies was a dumb move in the end. He made the forward line more efficient when he was there. 60 goals and 25 goal assists across the previous 2 years.

We didn't get close to replacing that with Motlop / Evans / etc. this year.

In a team whose biggest problem is forward line efficiency that was - as I say - a pretty dumb list management decision.

 

[teddy-hopkins]

I and most of us here (seemingly) are not saying he's some gun player.. but what you and Moon keep overlooking and failing to answer, is if we get rid of him are we going to bring in better with that junk pick? If you think so that's fine but please name some guys in the draft you think will be better in that late draft pick range with more upside. Or just explain your rationale here on how we move him on and get better from doing so because I'm not looking to argue, I'm just trying to understand the thought process. Simply saying he's no good doesn't really add any value to the discussion. I also don't see any good small forwards out there that have been linked to any teams let alone us through trade.

Every list management decision has to be about what makes us better. I genuinely don't think what we would get for him in a trade (and there may not have been significant takers anyway) would make us better than what Motlop can provide for a year or two. Either he acts as depth for a year or so on a small contract (worst case scenario) or he improves a lot (best case scenario). He won't be on significant money so it's the smart play at least in my opinion to retain him rather than bring in a late draft pick in a weak draft.

So bottom line is I can understand the frustration around his performance- I totally get that. I also understand the passion of wanting to get rid of players to get better but you have to weigh up what we could have instead. He shows glimpses here and there which tantalise a little bit but has some clear flaws. I get that. But the reality is we can't move him on if there are no takers offering what we want/currency to get better.. so then we either accept a junk pick for him or we delist him and go to the draft with a crap pick or search the DFA scrap heap. Retaining him is the smart play.

It's a good point.

If we trade Motlop the pick we get in return will be 40+. Unless we've got some trade targets lined up to replace him we're not going to get anything close to his output next year from using the draft pick we'd get.

I still think Jesse is improving. About to start his absolute peak years.

His tackle numbers were way up this year. He's really got to sort out his kicking for goal. He really should have been pushing 30 goals this year rather than the 19 he got.

 

[Red_man2008]

You can't have been watching much footy this year with that assessment.

Disposal efficiency stats are not completely meaningless but certainly pretty close to it. They don't take into account how many kicks were sideways across the backline to someone standing in 20m of space. They also count a long kick to a contest as an effective kick!! An effective kick on this stat is not one that was marked by a teammate.

You have to watch the games.

Yeah but it’s not like Ollie has those rules attached to his disposal and the others don’t. They are all judged that way and despite those rules his statistics still stand up. You can debate how the measure the stat all you like but all afl players are adjudged off the same measuring stick.

 

[btdg]

I hope you’re right.

I don’t see him hitting the heights of any of the below:

Top Class Small Forward:
Rankin, Rachele, Bailey, Cameron, Elliott, Hill, Mannagh, Stengle, Miers, Moore, Watson, Pickett, Papley, Higgins, Weightman,

Proven Good Small Forward:
Ah Chee, McCarthy, Shultz, Ginnivan, West, Ryan.

If we could snag one or two of the above, it would make Motlop a better player.

Motlop is not in the top echelon (Rankine, Rachele, Cameron, etc), but here are some stats comparisons at the same age:

Motlop = 10.7 disposals, 2.1 marks, 1.5 scoring shots, 3.6 tackles

Stengle = 9.8 disposals, 1.8 marks, 1.5 scoring shots, 2.1 tackles
Hill = 8.6 disposals, 2.2 marks, 1.5 scoring shots, 2.2 tackles
Papley = 13.7 disposals, 3.2 marks, 2.3 scoring shots, 2.9 tackles
Weightman = 10.4 disposals, 2.8 marks, 2.7 scoring shots, 2.7 tackles
Higgins = 14.5 disposals, 3.6 marks, 1.2 scoring shots, 1.2 tackles

Schulz = 11.7 disposals, 2.1 marks, 1.0 scoring shots, 2.4 tackles
McCarthy = had not played a game
Ginnivan = 16.5 disposals, 3.9 marks, 2.3 scoring shots, 2.7 tackles
West = 11.6 disposals, 2.6 marks, 1.4 scoring shots, 3.8 tackles

I think Motlop is most similar to Rhylee West and Lachie Schulz out of that group - strong tackling, defensive small forwards who also his the scoreboard and can be useful up the ground. But I don't think he sits out of place with that group

If we had better options then maybe it makes sense, but Motlop was the best performed and youngest of our small forwards this year, and is cheap and comfortable at the club. I think we have bigger fish to fry and should probably just keep him tbh

 

[ray8182]

Yeah but it’s not like Ollie has those rules attached to his disposal and the others don’t. They are all judged that way and despite those rules his statistics still stand up. You can debate how the measure the stat all you like but all afl players are adjudged off the same measuring stick.

Disposal efficiency is the worst stat in football. It’s been discussed many times. You should ignore it completely. It does not take into account the degree of difficulty of the disposal. For instance some players play positions where there is more pressure on disposal and others have less pressure.

They should drop that stat all together.

 

[Doro]

Disposal efficiency is the worst stat in football. It’s been discussed many times. You should ignore it completely. It does not take into account the degree of difficulty of the disposal. For instance some players play positions where there is more pressure on disposal and others have less pressure.

They should drop that stat all together.

There needs to be a grouping with that stat according to position. The top of the disposal efficiency list are all defenders. The average effective disposal list has a much closer link to the elite kicks amongst the league midfielders.

 

[Premiership Quarter]

definite no. Curnow and 2 first rounders assuming Band 2 for Jack for pick 1

 

[Premiership Quarter]

Have been thinking about my negativity towards Motlop and what it stems from.

Think my issue with Motlop is, as a #1 small forward (which we need him to be), he’s so far off the mark. Stats don’t make up for the eye test and match winning ability of other small forwards in the league.

If we could bring in a top shelf small forward and Evans takes another step forward, Motlop drops to the 3rd in line. Take the shackles off, may allow him to become a B Grader.

As an example. If we could turn Curnow and either TDK or JSOS pick, into Walter and Rachelle it would be a no brainer.

GC: Curnow
Adelaide: JSOS Pick (GC to appease Adelaide)
Carlton: Walter & Rachelle

done

 

[ctwenty1]

Just watched agenda settters….

According to hutchy merrettbis worth two firsts from hawthorn ie our 8 and next year hawthorn first. If this is “fair value” then Charlie is worth 4 first rounders or the equivalent in player quality

Also said Brisbane would do the right thing and pay Sam Draper 1.2m so Essendon could get a band one compo, but balance that out with the offer for Ridley which would still be band 2. How the **** would that work and does taht mean Sam Draper ends up on passing some of his salary to Ridley? Totally confused

Anyway - Essendon ends up with a gazzilion first round picks this year under hutchy’s pkan

I think I want my hour of life back after watching that show

Footy classified is even better than that

 

[teddy-hopkins]

Yeah but it’s not like Ollie has those rules attached to his disposal and the others don’t. They are all judged that way and despite those rules his statistics still stand up. You can debate how the measure the stat all you like but all afl players are adjudged off the same measuring stick.

I guess in saying you have to watch the games and ignore that stat means you'd have to look at Zorko (for example) and see how many times he's running free and tries to hit up an open teammate and instead hit an opponent on the chest. I know I've seen Ollie do that every single game this season - and usually multiple times.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Disposal efficiency is the worst stat in football. It’s been discussed many times. You should ignore it completely. It does not take into account the degree of difficulty of the disposal. For instance some players play positions where there is more pressure on disposal and others have less pressure.

They should drop that stat all together.

Yep, Just go with what your eyes tell you

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

To pick one at random, here is Bobby Hill at the same age.

View attachment 2426895

How about Stengle - drafted in 2016 by the time he got to the Cats in 2022 he had managed 15 goals in 14 games

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

I hope you’re right.

I don’t see him hitting the heights of any of the below:

Top Class Small Forward:
Rankin, Rachele, Bailey, Cameron, Elliott, Hill, Mannagh, Stengle, Miers, Moore, Watson, Pickett, Papley, Higgins, Weightman,

Proven Good Small Forward:
Ah Chee, McCarthy, Shultz, Ginnivan, West, Ryan.

If we could snag one or two of the above, it would make Motlop a better player.

Looking through the list you notice how many of those players are at the same club - makes it a lot easier being the "number 1 small forward" when you aren't 1 out, or even the number 1 small forward.

 

[agro]

Just watched agenda settters….

According to hutchy merrettbis worth two firsts from hawthorn ie our 8 and next year hawthorn first. If this is “fair value” then Charlie is worth 4 first rounders or the equivalent in player quality

Also said Brisbane would do the right thing and pay Sam Draper 1.2m so Essendon could get a band one compo, but balance that out with the offer for Ridley which would still be band 2. How the **** would that work and does taht mean Sam Draper ends up on passing some of his salary to Ridley? Totally confused

Anyway - Essendon ends up with a gazzilion first round picks this year under hutchy’s pkan

I think I want my hour of life back after watching that show

Footy classified is even better than that

Its bizarre the carry on provided by Matthew Lloyd and James Hird with respect to Merrett's departure from Essendon - "it just can't happen" etc etc.

Yet for Charlie Curnow is its "what kind of low ball offers will Carlton entertain" for trading him

Let us know when you are being Football Commentators or Football Fanboys.

 

[sweethoney]

Its bizarre the carry on provided by Matthew Lloyd and James Hird with respect to Merrett's departure from Essendon - "it just can't happen" etc etc.

Yet for Charlie Curnow is its "what kind of low ball offers will Carlton entertain" for trading him

Let us know when you are being Football Commentators or Football Fanboys.

Lloyd actually said last night he can’t seeing a deal being done with Sydney unless it’s with one of the 4 untouchables

 

[Crippa#9]

Trading out Owies was a dumb move in the end. He made the forward line more efficient when he was there. 60 goals and 25 goal assists across the previous 2 years.

We didn't get close to replacing that with Motlop / Evans / etc. this year.

In a team whose biggest problem is forward line efficiency that was - as I say - a pretty dumb list management decision.

Trading out Owies was one of the better list management decisions we have made.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Feels a little bit like we are replicating Collingwood in 2020 when they got rid of Treloar & Jaidyn Stephenson

2

Jaidyn Stephenson

Age

26

Ht

189cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

8.8

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

4.7

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.5

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

4.3

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

1.2

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.4

5star

which freed up salary cap space and 2022 Grundy & Ollie Henry, but replaced with Tom Mitchell, Dan Mc Stay, Bobby Hill & Billy Frampton

17

Billy Frampton

Age

29

Ht

201cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.1

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

0.7

3star

MG

99.0

2star

D

8.5

2star

K

4.8

2star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

0.5

1star

MG

99.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.0

3star

MG

107.0

2star

.

Interesting listen to SEN this morning and they were listing Zac Merrett, Christian Petracca

5

Christian Petracca

Age

29

Ht

187cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.4

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

9.8

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

2.5

4star

D

24.4

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.5

3star

T

3.6

4star

CL

3.4

4star

D

19.0

5star

K

7.8

3star

HB

11.2

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.0

4star

& Charlie Curnow

30

Charlie Curnow

Age

28

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.3

3star

K

9.7

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.8

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.8

4star

and who would be worth more in a trade, obviously biased i say Charlie but its prob hard to argue that he isnt behind both of those.