Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXIX

[RPCB]

Pies have just clipped the ice berg and there’s water gushing in from all parts.
Imo there in for some pain over the coming years.
Would a nick daicos be gettable off a fast sinking ship?
Come home Nicholas

No. He will be a one club player.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

I’ll go from a different angle, Doc is giving his honest feedback on the club, if he is saying negative things, it’s because he believes them.

We had a disaster of a season and I with many others called for Voss to be sacked but the club is sticking with him, if we have a well respected, quality player just retiring and now saying negative things, why not consider they might be true?

Doc did leave Voss at Brisbane, so maybe like many here, he just doesn’t rate him as a coach and like us, thinks the club botched our list management th past few years.

Failing to mention key components that debunk his argument is where the problem lies for him, clearly the top 10 were taking all the cash and I’m sure the list management team would have loved the flexibility to bring in better depth but were clearly hamstrung.

If all of them took a 5-10% pay cut to fund the room to go “all in” then it would have been done.

 

[BlueTongue]

So you agree Nick Austin should have been sacked for mismanaging the cap but we still had no cap space and those players would not have come. Docherty is just deflecting from any aspect that he may have been apart of: playing culture, internals and the fact we have been proven as not good enough.

Austin or Lloyd? Austin’s still here and apparently Wright was happy with how he & Agresta went about it. Lloyd would have had the ultimate say on budget.

 

[DangerousD]

Kennedy and Owies yes. Both for other reasons. But not sure the others can be considered quality depth when they were unavailable for half the season or more.

We held on to those guys for too long and they needed to go, but we got rid of lots of senior guys and replaced them mostly with kids, which has seen us go backwards.

 

[Sonny Jim]

Jack Martin and Dan Houston playing in a grand final.

TDK,JSOS gone.

Charlie Curnow wants out.

Other than that everything is good

The way things look at the moment, none of them will be winning a premiership this year, and we are still every chance of playing finals in 2027.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

The same sort cap Brisbane had when they lost the prelim to go out and get Dunkley, McKenna and Gunston, the same one they’ve got, that has them about to sign 2 free agents at $1M each.

The same salary cap that Collingwood had when they won the GF to go and get Schulz, then a season later go out and get 2 players at $1.7M between them.

The same salary cap that Geelong had when they lost the GF and went out and spent $1M on Cameron

The same salary cap that Hawthorn used at the end of last season, bringing in a FA and a big trade totalling about $1.8M

Most have slowly come to the realisation that we absolutely stuffed our cap, all these other clubs can improve the list year on year, yet we have no room, season after season.

Yep, but no accountability on the playing group to fix that, it’s just excuses

 

[Guus_Hiddink]

My assessment of Docherty at the moment is a man who is a little bitter at the club because they forced his retirement.

In May he said he wanted to play on, in July he announced his retirement, I think Doc was tapped on the shoulder by coaches and list management and he probably feels a bit dudded by the club.

I think in time he'll come to the realization the time was right and I would love to see him back at the club in some sort of role after he's given media a shot.

So I watched the snippet.

He's unhappy we didn't win a flag because we didn't go "all in" whilst he was still there?

And if we went all in and still didn't win, then what? You know flags are tough to win at the best of times. Say we went all in and still bombed, then have no youth / picks and a bloated cap, then what?

Pies loss yesterday has them staring at the precipice now.

The decision to play in the final after the ACL and now these comments just reinforces the view that Doc is selfish.

 

[Sonny Jim]

We held on to those guys for too long and they needed to go, but we got rid of lots of senior guys and replaced them mostly with kids, which has seen us go backwards.

Thankfully those kids are staying fit and looking like they will be pretty good players.
They keep developing well.

 

[carlton_99]

We held on to those guys for too long and they needed to go, but we got rid of lots of senior guys and replaced them mostly with kids, which has seen us go backwards.

I think that's part of it. But a lot of this year's drop off was on individual players dropping off massively in form combined with some poor coaching. The youth was pretty much the one saving grace from the season.

 

[jj1978]

Elliot was put into the leadership group this year and has had a ripping season. No way they let him go and no way he'll want to.

From the presser he’s had a 2 year offer on the table for a while. Unless it’s for major unders interesting why he wouldn’t sign as that’d take him to 34-35 and with his history of injury that the pies have nursed him through pretty fair term.

 

[DangerousD]

In my experience here if a well respected player (both current and former) says negative things about the club then he is no longer "well respected" regardless of mitigating facts.

Do we not want people to be honest and tell us their experiences? We say negative stuff about the club all the time, we debate it, some agree, some disagree, others give inside information and we form opinions. If you listen to a players comments and you find the player to be bitter about him maybe being forced out, then that’s fine, I cam see why negative comments would in that instance cause people to lose respect.

 

[agro]

Collingwood have no say where Elliott chooses to play next year

 

[jj1978]

Anyone from the pies worth Voss having a date with?

 

[gbatman]

Collingwood have been too old and written off for the last few seasons, got to a prelim this year and lost because of too many underdone players in their side. I think they probably have another crack again and when their older stars start to go, watch them use that as a salary dump, use free agency and just go out and get established stars from other clubs and simply replace them. Collingwood and Geelong have been doing this since they have been able to. Geelong will do the same when Dangerfield gives it away. These teams don't bottom out, they just continually draft/develop young talent and replace their aging stars via free agency. Writing Collingwood and Geelong off is something that has been done to death for the last 15 years and always comes back to bite. Even Hawthorn have become a side that wont go away.

Petracca is a no for me. We are rebuilding. A short rebuild, but a rebuild all the same. Petracca is a 29 year old who has had some decent injuries and is past his best. Would cost too much salary cap and while he is a good player, does he really provide us with that point of difference in the middle? Once upon a time yes, but now? Not so sure. This would have to be a very cheap trade and I don't see that happening. His injury profile and age will not match his salary.

We have some age demographic issues with our list. Our midfield age demographic needs to be better, quality players in their mid 20s and under is lacking. key forwards are also an issue with only two on the list and both being the same age.

As for our rebuild, we should be looking to be back in it by 2027. If that is not the case, that is because we have failed to bring in the right players of the right quality. I would not stress about how good we are going to be next year, though it will help if we are back in finals as we need to prove to our players and other players in the competition that we are a contender so that we can attract players to our club. 2027 is a realistic target to be good again.

You would hate to see Collingwood and Geelong in the next few years dine out on free agency and build themselves back up while we hit the draft and get mildly wanted players from other clubs and sit mid table. We need to hit free agency a bit ourselves. Use it to take players in or force clubs to make trades, one of the other.

Fix the holes, fix the age demographic issues and fix the quality, kicking and pace issues.

 

[The Bighouse]

I think that's part of it. But a lot of this year's drop off was on individual players dropping off massively in form combined with some poor coaching. The youth was pretty much the one saving grace from the season.

Is that the poor coaching with players missing targets and shots on goals?

BL at it again last night, has plagued them for some time. Fages was a poor coach c/- some media scribes.

Us along with MFC, crucified their seasons with inaccuracy and the rot sets in for L’s and confidence disappears with it. MFC have been doing it for years as well which cost Goody his job.

 

[carlton_99]

Is that the poor coaching with players missing targets and shots on goals?

BL at it again last night, has plagued them for some time. Fages was a poor coach c/- some media scribes.

Us along with MFC, crucified their seasons with inaccuracy and the rot sets in for L’s and confidence disappears with it. MFC have been doing it for years as well which cost Goody his job.

I agree our footskills were a massive part of it. It's why I said individuals dropping off so much was a bigger part of the issue than just depth in 2025. But I don't think the coaching overall was particularly great either this season.

 

[macky99]

Be shocked if he stayed. Best guess is they are trying to get the best price from either GC or Swans. Seems he’s indicated he’s happy with either which gives Carlton even more leverage (given he’s contracted).

I think they’ll get a good enough offer and I think they’ll take it. Instinct is they just want home gone now.

You may very well be right, but losing a ruck & full forward and centre half back in the one year is going to hit us hard in the short term without adequate replacements.
lt is certainly going to be a tough year for Voss.

 

[sweethoney]

From the presser he’s had a 2 year offer on the table for a while. Unless it’s for major unders interesting why he wouldn’t sign as that’d take him to 34-35 and with his history of injury that the pies have nursed him through pretty fair term.

He always wanted 3 years

 

[BlueTongue]

So I watched the snippet.

He's unhappy we didn't win a flag because we didn't go "all in" whilst he was still there?

And if we went all in and still didn't win, then what? You know flags are tough to win at the best of times. Say we went all in and still bombed, then have no youth / picks and a bloated cap, then what?

Pies loss yesterday has them staring at the precipice now.

The decision to play in the final after the ACL and now these comments just reinforces the view that Doc is selfish.

Thats a bit harsh. You have to consider he’s been in complete warrior mode for several years, fighting off Cancer and recovering from multiple knee injuries.
I’m betting its hard to get out of this mindset when you life has depended on it.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

He’s more open to a move out of vic compared to last year where it was just the pies and blues he wanted.

Personally I can see him slotting in at the Crows quite nicely.

 

[The Bighouse]

I agree our footskills were a massive part of it. It's why I said individuals dropping off so much was a bigger part of the issue than just depth in 2025. But I don't think the coaching overall was particularly great either this season.

All a little bit too late when the big-money earners didn’t show up, injured, or exorcised plus the pillars of the club had crumbled c/- Pres’s photography.

Stability will assist. New team formed and GW has had some time to assess.
Club direction seems to be set.
New coaches…(?)
Buy-in now required.
Skills and fitness/HP a pre-season priority focus.

 

[gbatman]

Anyone from the pies worth Voss having a date with?

Out of contract for them.

Ash Johnson, is a player I rate who has had a terrible run with injury. Would be a good option as third tall forward who can provide backup for our key forwards.

Curnow, McKay are our only key forwards now. We have a couple of medium ones in Kemp and Moir but he provides something deffernt to them. Could be a cheap get in an area of need for us. Kind of killed us this year with McKay and Curnow being unavailable or out of form/playing injured for a lot of the season, Lemmy unable to make the level and having no one else.

Mihocek would play the same role but would cost more and be harder to get out of there so probably not. Cox, much the same. Would only have a need for them if Curnow is moved on. I don't think he will be, but if he is, that means we need to bring in 2 AFL capable key forwards and this would bring guys like these into the discussion.

Elliott you won't get.

Tom Mitchell, probably not quite the right type of midfielder or age for us but will be interesting to see what they do with him. If he can get fit, he's a brownlow medalist, probably an upgrade on someone like Cerra, a move like this could see us push Cerra to a wing which I am all for. He's 32 so not sure if his career is about done or he just had a poor year. I think they will be trying to sign him to a short contract and he will look elsewhere for a longer one. I'd be hesitant and we should have plenty of other targets before coming to this point so he is probably a no but only after considering a few key points. If he comes cheap and on a short contract, if he ends up on the scrapheap then we should think about it, if his body is fine.

 

[DangerousD]

No evidence that Austin will get sacked. You’re just projecting

You’re blaming us going backwards because we traded our blokes that were there when we started going backwards? It’s also not linear, we had to get rid of the injury plagued guys because they were hampering us and our depth chart. We were largely poor this year due to half of our best team being out at times

Of course when I say I think Austin will be sacked, that it’s just my opinion, I think list management under his watch has been terrible, but to be fair, I’ve no idea who is responsible for what in regards to $$$$ paid, contract lengths, strategy, for all I know Agresta could be responsible for some bad calls as well as Lloyd.

To put it really simply, we haven’t added quality to our list now for several years, I put this down as poor list management.

We have traded out injury prone depth players but failed to replace them with senior depth players, relying on kids. I put this down as poor list management.

We have several players who I think aren’t at the level for AFL but they are on multi year deals, meaning we struggle for list spots, I put this down as poor list management.

So yeah I’m projecting my thoughts that Austin has not been good and I think won’t be there after the drafts, or there will be significant change in his area.

 

[agro]

Out of contract for them.

Ash Johnson, is a player I rate who has had a terrible run with injury. Would be a good option as third tall forward who can provide backup for our key forwards.

Curnow, McKay are our only key forwards now. We have a couple of medium ones in Kemp and Moir but he provides something deffernt to them. Could be a cheap get in an area of need for us. Kind of killed us this year with McKay and Curnow being unavailable or out of form/playing injured for a lot of the season, Lemmy unable to make the level and having no one else.

Mihocek would play the same role but would cost more and be harder to get out of there so probably not. Cox, much the same. Would only have a need for them if Curnow is moved on. I don't think he will be, but if he is, that means we need to bring in 2 AFL capable key forwards and this would bring guys like these into the discussion.

Elliott you won't get.

Tom Mitchell, probably not quite the right type of midfielder or age for us but will be interesting to see what they do with him. If he can get fit, he's a brownlow medalist, probably an upgrade on someone like Cerra, a move like this could see us push Cerra to a wing which I am all for. He's 32 so not sure if his career is about done or he just had a poor year. I think they will be trying to sign him to a short contract and he will look elsewhere for a longer one. I'd be hesitant and we should have plenty of other targets before coming to this point so he is probably a no but only after considering a few key points. If he comes cheap and on a short contract, if he ends up on the scrapheap then we should think about it, if his body is fine.

Ash Johnson has no stomach for doing the right thing as a trainer or his rehab, we already have a similar player with a higher ceiling in Moir.

 

[Coops93]

Carlton first could just as easily mean **** off if you don’t want to be here

That's basically what Weiters said in and interview a little while ago.