List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[PrimalConstruct]

I wouldn't be pursuing Liam Ryan. He doesn't seem to fill anything on the list

Imagine if those high kicks to Higgins were directed to a player who could both run and jump.

That's why we've looked at him.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Too slow for AFL level. Will be very good for Peel though.

Makes you wonder how he managed to get 12 possessions and 27 hitouts in his only game.

His apparent sin - having a 179 cm small fwd in Izak Rankine Josh Rachele run past him run when he was gassed after a ruck stint n his first game. Shame shame shame!!!!

He didn't get another game for two reasons neither of which are related to his capacity to play as a break glass in an emergency back up ruck in the AFL.

The selectors do not play two rucks and Marshall is not a fwd.

Having decided that Marshall is not a fwd, when they eventually realised our fwd line was full of short people they went with the younger players in Keeler and Heath because like Marshall, Boyd is not a fwd.

That said - change of rules regarding no bounces will make it very hard for him and others non mobile rucks like him - Riley O'Brien, Sean Darcy etc

Sean Darcy and Harry Boyd AFL Stats Comparison

Sean Darcy and Harry Boyd AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

Reilly O'Brien and Harry Boyd AFL Stats Comparison

Reilly O'Brien and Harry Boyd AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

 

[Kildonan]

Anyone else feeling uneasy this morning about the media driven Geelong narrative of Marshall being a salary dump?

Nope - it is typical for the media to fail to see the positive in our club (and any of the other smaller fanbase clubs) and focus on the negative (because that gets more hits and listeners).

 

[PJays]

If you’ll remember there was a bloke named tom Mitchell who couldn’t break into a regular midfield spot at the swans because of the guys he was behind too.

GC has argurably the best 1-2 midfield combo in the comp and Flanders was behind that, then to your point as a fit he probably wasn’t complimentary to others given his similarities to Rowell plus he was still pretty effective as a half forward.

Honestly though mate, you clearly know all this and still don’t rate the trade. That’s fine but hiding behind the position of “asking questions” is a bit tiresome at this point.

Fair point, the back thing is a major concern though, surely?

My philosophy is not trading picks. You might recall a decade ago we traded almost the same pick for a guy who ended up retiring early due to back issues.

Time will tell! It could go either way.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Clarkson has been a cancer there since day dot.

They are in quicksand with him and Rawlings still at the club.

Odds on Clarkson paid out by the end of '26

Roos need the Horse to come home.

 

[Kildonan]

Nah not frustrated with the club. Frustrated with Max King. Not his fault I know. But when the marquee 'generational talent' that a flag quest was supposed to be built around can't get on the park with multiple serious injuries over multiple years - and he just looks fragile and without durability - I start to question building a forward line around him and think we should be looking elsewhere.

Not living up to your name there Leap

 

[nikkig98]

1. Jack Steele (207)
2. Dan Butler (126)
3. Dougal Howard (122)
4. Rowan Marshall (120)
5. Nick Coffield (119)
6. Zak Jones (117)
7. Callum Wilkie (113)
8. Paddy Ryder (107)
9. Hunter Clark (100)
10. Sebastian Ross (92)

Just a reminder of the top 10 for B&F 5 years ago! Look how far we've come!!

Every single one of them either not with us or linked with leaving us at some point. Sorry Wilkes, but youre in that category now too.

I always think about what that 2020 team couldve done if we had Dan Hannebery fit playing alongside prime jack steele, probably not a flag, but definitely couldve made a granny, and paddy went down too

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

1. Jack Steele (207)
2. Dan Butler (126)
3. Dougal Howard (122)
4. Rowan Marshall (120)
5. Nick Coffield (119)
6. Zak Jones (117)
7. Callum Wilkie (113)
8. Paddy Ryder (107)
9. Hunter Clark (100)
10. Sebastian Ross (92)

Just a reminder of the top 10 for B&F 5 years ago! Look how far we've come!!

Every single one of them either not with us or linked with leaving us at some point. Sorry Wilkes, but youre in that category now too.

Coffield really is one hell of a what if.

 

[g_TRAIN]

I base my viewpoints on data.

"Men lie, women lie, numbers don't"

Perfectly happy admitting I don't watch a huge amount of games not involving St Kilda.

The key data points on Flanders are:

• 24 years old
• 89 career games and 57 career coaches votes
• One top 10 B&F finish.

I don't need to watch him play 20 games to hold the view that trading a pick 10 or 11 (even in a "weak draft") isn't a good idea in this instance.

You’re quoting numbers but ignoring the actual odds behind the pick.

Let's ignore the fact pick 7 in this draft is likely to be pick 12 after academy bidding etc. let's ignore the fact most think it's a weak draft talent wise.

Since 2000, pick 7 has been the best-performing slot in the mid-first round, better than 5, 6, 8, 9 and 10.
It’s produced Selwood, Wines, Lewis, Smith, Heeney, etc. On average, those players go on to play about 130 games, and roughly 5 in 10 become genuine A-graders or 200-gamers.

Sounds impressive… until you flip it. That means 5 out of 10 picks don’t.
They turn into your average role player, or worse. That’s what “draft risk” actually looks like.

Now stack that against Sam Flanders:

24 years old, 89 games, entering prime.

Top 20% in the comp for contested possessions, ground-ball gets and score involvements last year.

Already proven at AFL level, he’s past the ‘will he make it?’ phase.

You’re basically swapping a 50% chance of a gun for a player who already is one, and who still has his prime ahead of him.

If your a numbers guy how to you ignore these facts?

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I base my viewpoints on data.

"Men lie, women lie, numbers don't"

Perfectly happy admitting I don't watch a huge amount of games not involving St Kilda.

The key data points on Flanders are:

• 24 years old
• 89 career games and 57 career coaches votes
• One top 10 B&F finish.

I don't need to watch him play 20 games to hold the view that trading a pick 10 or 11 (even in a "weak draft") isn't a good idea in this instance.

Context matters. It's like saying Neale was average in the grand final because he only had 17 disposals because "those are the numbers and the numbers don't lie." But you'd be leaving out that he only played 1 half and almost single-handedly changed the game.

Flanders had a limited preseason and played the whole year in a forward role behind anderson, rowell, miller and humphrey. He was incredible last year in a midfield role. Finished 2nd in the entire comp for disposals and broke the record for the most ever disposals in a season by a Sun

If he was so dominant in 2024 why was he not played in the centre square much in 2025?

He had 53 attendances- less than Read (76) Humphrey (242) Davies (149)

Was this merely a case of Flanders being deemed a terrible fit alongside Rowell and Anderson?

Bugger me....


He was injured you pratt!!!!

 

[sauce_head]

So we're taking a 24 year old who wasn't capable of playing midfield because of a back issue- and everyone's convinced he'll be the next star mid for St Kilda?

Sounds optimistic but OK.

Sounds like high risk, high reward. A 2024 Flanders would certainly be worth it, if he can play at that level for 7 or 8 years.

Pop him on ignore, pop him on ignore…

 

[Tom12]

I always think about what that 2020 team couldve done if we had Dan Hannebery fit playing alongside prime jack steele, probably not a flag, but definitely couldve made a granny, and paddy went down too

Hannebery was instrumental in our finals win that year. Was cool to see.

 

[Ads734]

I’d still love to grab Pou jnr if we could

 

[phantom13]

Fair point, the back thing is a major concern though, surely?

My philosophy is not trading picks. You might recall a decade ago we traded almost the same pick for a guy who ended up retiring early due to back issues.

Time will tell! It could go either way.

I’m not a doctor and I haven’t seen any scans, the medical team have though so I’ll back them.

I generally agree with you on the pick thing but there’s gotta be exception. If butters wanted to come to us I’d happily sell every pick we’re ever gonna get. In a draft rated the worst ever by many experts, in a year where we have to improve, in a position we have a need and for a player who has shown elite traits.

It’s a lot better than 50/50 it works out even the most nilhistic supporters have to admit that

 

[Parkysp]

Fair point, the back thing is a major concern though, surely?

My philosophy is not trading picks. You might recall a decade ago we traded almost the same pick for a guy who ended up retiring early due to back issues.

Time will tell! It could go either way.

two decades ago we drafted for 3 years and in the 4th we started trading in senior bodies. That group mixed with the 5 to 6 veterans that remained from the 90's had two surges. One with that mix and then another in the late naughties when those early naughties kids were older.

I personally see this as more than just a sugar hit. We have the foundations of young talent now we need some senior players to come in and help.

Will it work? That is the journey. I am having a hard time thinking missing one mId first round range draft pick at this stage is worth getting upset over.

Who's to say that the player taken at 7 (10?) isn't a bayside lad that wants to get on the Saints bandwagon in a few years?

The biggest disappointment is we are going to miss the "RTB" cuddle for the early draftee. Now that is upsetting

 

[Kildonan]

Tassie aren’t the bears, there’s no way teams are going to fleece them with c graders for top picks.

The only way Sanders will get them one of the high tradable picks is to play like someone who’s worth it that they don’t want to loose.

Then of course the player still has to want to go to Tassie and that’s not a given these days.

If trading him to Adelaide with get them Butts then that’s the right play imo.

That makes me think of Schoenmaker who is uncontracted at this moment.
Will he have any trade value in two years' time given he is Tasmanian?
Will it be worthwhile to hang on to him until then (given our desire for list spots for other needs)?
His kicking can be a gamechanger, do we want to keep him on the list for what he offers the team?

 

[Ads734]

Quota of Players using ‘use’ instead ‘you doubled with old Neddy joining. Naz the same. Bring on more.

 

[Armoooo]

Remember that time when Brisbane trade pick 6 and 19 for a 25 year old Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

32

Ht

177cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

?

What a bunch of flogs, they missed out on Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

25

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

and Liam Stocker

14

Liam Stocker

Age

25

Ht

184cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

180.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.6

4star

K

8.4

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

180.0

3star

 

[Mr Platinum]

That makes me think of Schoenmaker who is uncontracted at this moment.
Will he have any trade value in two years' time given he is Tasmanian?
Will it be worthwhile to hang on to him until then (given our desire for list spots for other needs)?
His kicking can be a gamechanger, do we want to keep him on the list for what he offers the team?

He likes beer too much, he’s too immature and not a professional. Sometimes the penny never drops.

 

[Yawkey way]

That makes me think of Schoenmaker who is uncontracted at this moment.
Will he have any trade value in two years' time given he is Tasmanian?
Will it be worthwhile to hang on to him until then (given our desire for list spots for other needs)?
His kicking can be a gamechanger, do we want to keep him on the list for what he offers the team?

I’ve been disappointed with Arie, if he hangs on for another year he really needs to make it count.

He has to improve his running and contested work. His big boot isn’t worth much is he’s a liability, maybe I’m being a bit harsh he wasn’t terrible when he played afl.

 

[Mr Platinum]

Coffield really is one hell of a what if.

Nah, he was a poor choice because we were putting good people ahead of talent.

 

[joydivision22]

Sin

View attachment 2450044
Pop him on ignore, pop him on ignore…

Signing that in snoops voice is the first time I’ve audibly laughed whilst reading bigfooty. That’s magnificent

 

[Moquo]

Roos need the Horse to come home.

If it aint broke, don't fix it! And if it is broke, don't fix it!

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Sure is a lot of people arguing with some posts I can't see...

Think we sit back and watch the carnage unfold for a couple days. Get Aleer, Ryan and JDG late Tuesday.

Grab popcorn for Wednesday to see Trac/Oliver/Merrett shit show go down.

 

[CaptainRisky]

He likes beer too much, he’s too immature and not a professional. Sometimes the penny never drops.

And at this point in time all he does well is kick