No Oppo Supporters General AFL discussion and other club’s news - Part 10

[Mr Meeseeks]

So you would have preferred us to have had no chance of making a grand final this season just gone?

We finished 8th and not far off 4th.

No chance? Why? Try and look at this wothout thinking what it means for Hawthorn.

More footy (2 more elimination games), less tanking, more relevant games late in the season and no dead week.

Im laughing so hard at the amount of meltdowns happening over this.

 

[eldorado]

People can pis off with this 'participation trophy award' crap, the dogs and Swans would have been deserving finallists this year. 9 and 10 have to win 5 away finals to get the flag, its fair.

If 9th and 10th 'deserve' to play finals, maybe 11th and 12th also 'deserve' finals to some degree?

And to a lesser degree, 13th and 14th?

Wouldn't every supporter believe that with luck, and less injuries, their side 'deserved' finals?

What does it mean that a side 'deserves' finals? Isn't that just a subjective label?

We have a good OBJECTIVE system already, and...

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

/r/afl losing their shit. Petitions are being launched!

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

If 9th and 10th 'deserve' to play finals, maybe 11th and 12th also 'deserve' finals to some degree?

And to a lesser degree, 13th and 14th?

You're just being silly. Twist my words if it helps you deal with it, but its here to stay.

The last month this year was shithouse. The bottom 9 teams stopped trying because they couldnt make it. So many games will have meaning from now on

 

[eldorado]

You're just being silly. Twist my words if it helps you deal with it, but its here to stay.

The last month this year was shithouse. The bottom 9 teams stopped trying because they couldnt make it. So many games will have meaning from now on

I'm not being silly at all...

If you find it perfectly acceptable that 9th and 10th deserve a chance because they were 'close', why not 11th and 12th, who were just a little less 'close'?

Where's the 'deserving' line, and why is it better there?...as opposed to where it is now...8th?

 

[burger09]

No chance? Why? Try and look at this wothout thinking what it means for Hawthorn.

More footy (2 more elimination games), less tanking, more relevant games late in the season and no dead week.

Im laughing so hard at the amount of meltdowns happening over this.

If you can't see how this effects the chances of a team finishing 7th or 8th of winning the flag I can't help you.

 

[unitedhawk2]

No chance? Why? Try and look at this wothout thinking what it means for Hawthorn.

More footy (2 more elimination games), less tanking, more relevant games late in the season and no dead week.

Im laughing so hard at the amount of meltdowns happening over this.

You're not the only one.

For some totally unrelated reason, I'm reminded of the collective melts in the Victorian media in the (relatively) early days of the AFL, when interstate teams had the temerity to win 6 successive Grand Finals from 2001 to 2006, with the last three of those years not even featuring a Victorian team in the Granny. As a Sydneysider, I can recall laughing at the calls to abolish the AFL and revert back to the VFL. Footy in Victoria was going to die, they said!

Settle down, everyone!

 

[SammyC]

So you would have preferred us to have had no chance of making a grand final this season just gone?

We finished 8th and not far off 4th.

The evenness of the top 9 this year was unprecedented. The bulldogs missed with 14 wins and a percentage of 137 - unheard of. We could have finished 4th beating brisbane but wound up 8th. yes we would have been stiff but history says that was an anomaly.

Overwhelming majority of teams finishing 7th and 8th are also rans and id be very comfortable with them entertaining us during what would otherwise be a sh*t football free weekend.

i wouldn’t call wildcard weekend ‘finals’ - its a qualification game. More games that mean something at the back end of the year is all good with me - 7-10 are disadvantaged but i’m totally ok with that.

 

[Nugett]

Only until they scrap it the year after after realizing it's a ****ing stupid idea.

We can only hope

 

[burger09]

The evenness of the top 9 this year was unprecedented. The bulldogs missed with 14 wins and a percentage of 137 - unheard of. We could have finished 4th beating brisbane but wound up 8th. yes we would have been stiff but history says that was an anomaly.

Overwhelming majority of teams finishing 7th and 8th are also rans and id be very comfortable with them entertaining us during what would otherwise be a sh*t football free weekend.

i wouldn’t call wildcard weekend ‘finals’ - its a qualification game. More games that mean something at the back end of the year is all good with me - 7-10 are disadvantaged but i’m totally ok with that.

You didn't answer my question.

 

[Buzz Hawk]

I'm not being silly at all...

If you find it perfectly acceptable that 9th and 10th deserve a chance because they were 'close', why not 11th and 12th, who were just a little less 'close'?

Where's the 'deserving' line, and why is it better there?...as opposed to where it is now...8th?

Exactly.
It’s turtles all the way down!

 

[Ashman23]

Lol calm down with the hyperbole. What a ridiculous take.

Its one more week of footy with two more extra cut throat finals instead of no footy at all. Makes the season relevant for more teams for longer.

I love it. I've been wanting this for years

People can pis off with this 'participation trophy award' crap, the dogs and Swans would have been deserving finallists this year. 9 and 10 have to win 5 away finals to get the flag, its fair.


Their main cockup was giving it an American name, people react to that without thinking it through objectively.

To be perfectly honest, I don't give a continental what you think.

The ridiculous thing is the AFL giving us fans something nobody, apart from seemingly you, wanted or asked for.

In reference to the American name, where I'm guessing the AFL is taking the idea from, as others have explained it's due to teams with good records in conferences and divisions where certain teams with good records didn't win their division an opportunity, not some half baked idea to award mediocrity.

 

[SammyC]

You didn't answer my question.

I did. We would have been stiff given how slim the ladder margins were but I strongly believe you finish 8th and the odds should be very heavily stacked against you.

The fact that we were such a good 8th is a historical anomaly and doesn’t change that opinion.

what’s point of the H&A season if it doesn’t give you a head start in sept.

This way the top 2 get the opp for two home finals on the way to the GF. The top 4 get a double chance. The top 6 get a week off amd 6-10 have to play a qualifier that provides some meaningful footy on that fn stupid bye weekend.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

If you can't see how this effects the chances of a team finishing 7th or 8th of winning the flag I can't help you.

Of course I can mate.

It's 7th and 8th, they've won what, one flag ever?

They get a home final too

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

To be perfectly honest, I don't give a continental what you think.

The ridiculous thing is the AFL giving us fans something nobody, apart from seemingly you, wanted or asked for.

In reference to the American name, where I'm guessing the AFL is taking the idea from, as others have explained it's due to teams with good records in conferences and divisions where certain teams with good records didn't win their division an opportunity, not some half baked idea to award mediocrity.

You don't give a continental but you wrote a lengthy reply anyway?!

Is happening mate, live with it.

I'm not the only fan in Australia who likes this man, come on.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

I'm not being silly at all...

If you find it perfectly acceptable that 9th and 10th deserve a chance because they were 'close', why not 11th and 12th, who were just a little less 'close'?

Where's the 'deserving' line, and why is it better there?...as opposed to where it is now...8th?

The deserving line is 10th now. That's the rules.

Why is it better? More finals footy, 2 more cut throat finals, easily more meaningful H&A games late, less tanking and no dead week.

sure, it would have sucked for us this year but that's not the point. I'm backing us to be top 6 for a while anyway

 

[H00t]

With the final 10 dominating the chatter the AFL have opened the door for themselves to further manipulate the fixture by increasing the games against the teams in ones bracket to 4.

What’s the bet the have the bottom 5 all playing against each other to try and boost wins while trying to hamstring top teams by having them go against one another.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Lol calm down with the hyperbole. What a ridiculous take.

Its one more week of footy with two more extra cut throat finals instead of no footy at all. Makes the season relevant for more teams for longer.

I love it. I've been wanting this for years

People can pis off with this 'participation trophy award' crap, the dogs and Swans would have been deserving finallists this year. 9 and 10 have to win 5 away finals to get the flag, its fair.


Their main cockup was giving it an American name, people react to that without thinking it through objectively.

For someone who is pretty vocal about being sick of peopl whinging with the game I take umbrigge with this change.

You may even say great umbridge.

I don't like opening the pool of finalist to be broader - I think that's pretty silly. Just reduces the meaningfulness of making finals. But I can live with that. A wildcard round SHOULD determine who finishes 8th. That should be the extent of it.

8 v 9 to determine who actually gets there. I'm fine with that.

But to make it 7 and 8 means you have to include nine and TEN. This is a bridge too far. You're creating the chance for a team that finished sub 50% wins to defeat a team that has won 13/14 games. The best thing about AFL footy is that anything can happen on the day. It's juicy enough that 8th can defeat 5th in an elimination final - but this is too far in my view.

They've made it worse to finish 7th or 8th. These positions were already fraught. As a fan you knew you were cooked but you just clung on to hope that the stars would align. it's now even harder for those sides, while opening the door to teams who have pretty much zero chance into the finals.

It's only going to disrupt teams that finish 5-8 and make it easier for 1-4. And I dont like that at all.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

The evenness of the top 9 this year was unprecedented. The bulldogs missed with 14 wins and a percentage of 137 - unheard of. We could have finished 4th beating brisbane but wound up 8th. yes we would have been stiff but history says that was an anomaly.

Overwhelming majority of teams finishing 7th and 8th are also rans and id be very comfortable with them entertaining us during what would otherwise be a sh*t football free weekend.

i wouldn’t call wildcard weekend ‘finals’ - its a qualification game. More games that mean something at the back end of the year is all good with me - 7-10 are disadvantaged but i’m totally ok with that.

It's not totally unprecendented - this happens every time you have an overload of terrible teams at the bottom.

This year, and the few years running, we'e had North, WC, Richmond all in disaster territory.

When we were winning flags it was CG, GWS and Melourne that were all total basket cases and donating wins on a weekly basis to the rest of the competition - which always creates a logjam of wins at whatever arbitrary line you draw.

This is not a reason to extend the number of finalists - it's a reason to find ways to lift the disaster teams up

 

[tommyk72]

For someone who is pretty vocal about being sick of peopl whinging with the game I take umbrigge with this change.

You may even say great umbridge.

I don't like opening the pool of finalist to be broader - I think that's pretty silly. Just reduces the meaningfulness of making finals. But I can live with that. A wildcard round SHOULD determine who finishes 8th. That should be the extent of it.

8 v 9 to determine who actually gets there. I'm fine with that.

But to make it 7 and 8 means you have to include nine and TEN. This is a bridge too far. You're creating the chance for a team that finished sub 50% wins to defeat a team that has won 13/14 games. The best thing about AFL footy is that anything can happen on the day. It's juicy enough that 8th can defeat 5th in an elimination final - but this is too far in my view.

They've made it worse to finish 7th or 8th. These positions were already fraught. As a fan you knew you were cooked but you just clung on to hope that the stars would align. it's now even harder for those sides, while opening the door to teams who have pretty much zero chance into the finals.

It's only going to disrupt teams that finish 5-8 and make it easier for 1-4. And I dont like that at all.

I think you make some good points here. A few of my thoughts

1. I can't say this phases me one way or another. The draw is already so manipulated the top 8 doesn't really represent the best half of the teams playing throughout the year. It's already lopsided as is.

2. Because of that, I'm neither here nor there on the wildcard game, as it's possible that those finishing 9th or 10th aren't really "worse" than 7-8th. It may just be the impact of the draw.

3. I have no problem making life harder for 7th and 8th. They don't really deserve to win from there anyway, so if it's a bit harder that's fine. I'm also ok with 1-4 getting more of an advantage, because generally they are definitely the better teams of the season (if not the "best" 4).

 

[burger09]

Of course I can mate.

It's 7th and 8th, they've won what, one flag ever?

They get a home final too

I think I'd prefer the chance to win the flag over a home final but that's just me.

All good. I appreciate your polite reasonable reply. It's rare.

 

[I wanna pash Nash]

This is not a reason to extend the number of finalists - it's a reason to find ways to lift the disaster teams up

Which the AFL did yesterday by allowing more double ups within each third.

 

[burger09]

I did. We would have been stiff given how slim the ladder margins were but I strongly believe you finish 8th and the odds should be very heavily stacked against you.

The fact that we were such a good 8th is a historical anomaly and doesn’t change that opinion.

what’s point of the H&A season if it doesn’t give you a head start in sept.

This way the top 2 get the opp for two home finals on the way to the GF. The top 4 get a double chance. The top 6 get a week off amd 6-10 have to play a qualifier that provides some meaningful footy on that fn stupid bye weekend.

Answer with a yes or no please.

Would you have preferred us to have had zero chance of winning the flag this year given we were one win off 3rd spot?

Yes- I would have preferred zero chance.

No- I would have still liked to have had chance.

 

[hfc70]

I would be curious to know, behind closed doors, what all club coaches think of this brainstorming idea of the Top 10 finals series ?

Reckon I could have a good guess.

 

[unitedhawk2]

I would be curious to know, behind closed doors, what all club coaches think of this brainstorming idea of the Top 10 finals series ?

Reckon I could have a good guess.

The Fox Sports article I read reported Dillon as saying the clubs were “unanimous in their support of the concept, which has been in the pipeline for a number of years.”

He did say ‘clubs’, so I suppose your question around coaches still stands.