Opinion Non-Crows AFL 13: Offseason

[1970crow]

"Somewhere" being the key word.

My suspicion has always been that this is clever tactic that Port have come up with to beat the system in order to get access to him.

Maybe we need to follow the same tactic with the next big player from SA that's linked to one of our clubs, they magically find indigenous heritage overnight and then suddenly qualify as a NGA player.

I vaguely recall having a bit of an argument about claiming of aboriginality in here months ago. I don't claim mine because I've grown up white and without any of the historical challenges faced by indigenous Australians. I abhor white people claiming aboriginality when they've grown up white, it's disrespectful to genuine indigenous Australians. That's my opinion at least. I'm pretty sure that I had very little support for my views, particularly from the Jen types. I'm surprised Kristof and a coupe of our local mods are expressing these types of views, inclusivity only when it suits I guess.

 

[Mostyn]

Dougie would be the most ideal NGA/FS prospect and deserves this exception, there would be no NGA/FS prospect ever that has basically been involved in their development with a club since birth like Dougie has through Stuart working at the club for decades post retirement.

Absolutely ridiculous.

If a player has been completely involved with and supported by the game since birth, then that enormous privilege is the LAST person who needs Academy selection in order to not be lost to the game.

Dougie Cochrane was always going to be playing AFL. He is the opposite of someone who needs Academy support.

 

[1970crow]

Unfortunately this is a lie and highlights the bigger issue the AFLW faces

Women (and men) don't like watching netball or women's sport in general. Women like playing netball but these players aren't devouring the game on TV. Ratings aren't reflective of playing numbers.

They aren't bulldozing netball stadiums to boost crowd capacity due to the tens of thousands of people wanting to go every single week.

The AFLW is the chance to prove that there is an appetite for women's sport, that they deserve equal billing, that they deserve professional salaries etc and so far the public have collectively have said No Thank You

And on netball
If a highly skilled, high standard sport with fewer than 18 teams nationally, with a bite-sized 60 minute game that has COPIOUS participant numbers across Australia can't be successful, what chance does a new start up league have?

$67k is absurd investment for lowest paid players. Remember when we were told AFLW paid for itself. It should be a summer league, training after work and weekends (like SANFL) and the players get a nice $20k kicker for participating. No problem with each club having a couple of marquee marketing types on bigger $, but professionalising the wage structure ahead of the skills will kill the game. I remember the days when idiots were using terms like wage parity. There's serious delusion amongst some of the real die hards and it doesn't aid the cause.

 

[1970crow]

The umpiring wont change in a hurry.

Playing games on full sized ovals doesnt work either, it makes them look even worse.

The talent also isnt there for 18 teams and wont be for a long time.

My u10 side kicked 5 goals to Kilburn's 2 on the full Woodville oval to win the GF. We regularly beat opposition by 10+ goals throughout the season. Changed to u11 the next year and we won again. I think soon after they started playing u11 sideways or shortened for GFs.

 

[WeeBlake]

I vaguely recall having a bit of an argument about claiming of aboriginality in here months ago. I don't claim mine because I've grown up white and without all the historical challenges faced by indigenous Australians. I abhor white people claiming aboriginality when they've grown up white, it's disrespectful to genuine indigenous Australians. That's my opinion at least. I'm pretty sure that I had very little support for my views, particularly from the Jen types. I'm surprised Kristof and a coupe of our local mods are expressing these types of views, inclusivity only when it suits I guess.

I can understand your position.

I think most people don’t have a problem with acknowledging their heritage, even if that heritage hasn’t had a meaningful impact on impact in their upbringing. Eg. Second generation migrant kids may have grown up as essentially mainstream Aussie kids, but still like to maintain some sense of connection to their family history. That’s normal and healthy.

I also don’t think hardship should be a qualifying factor for acknowledging and being proud of your heritage.

Obviously, it gets a bit more fraught if there’s advantages. I agree that the AFLs money should go towards helping the many Aboriginal kids who face real, massive barriers to getting a shot.

 

[1970crow]

I can understand your position.

I think most people don’t have a problem with acknowledging their heritage, even if that heritage hasn’t had a meaningful impact on impact in their upbringing. Eg. Second generation migrant kids may have grown up as essentially mainstream Aussie kids, but still like to maintain some sense of connection to their family history. That’s normal and healthy.

I also don’t think hardship should be a qualifying factor for acknowledging and being proud of your heritage.

Obviously, it gets a bit more fraught if there’s advantages. I agree that the AFLs money should go towards helping the many Aboriginal kids who face real, massive barriers to getting a shot.

Second generation migrant kids still have strong links to their heritage. It’s highly likely they speak their language at home, or at lest their parents do. Their heritage will be apparent by their features. We knew growing up whether someone was Greek or Italian or Vietnamese before we knew their names. Vastly different to me finding out I’m part aboriginal at 25 years of age because great nanna and her sister were ‘stolen’ by great, great grandad.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

$67k is absurd investment for lowest paid players. Remember when we were told AFLW paid for itself. It should be a summer league, training after work and weekends (like SANFL) and the players get a nice $20k kicker for participating. No problem with each club having a couple of marquee marketing types on bigger $, but professionalising the wage structure ahead of the skills will kill the game. I remember the days when idiots were using terms like wage parity. There's serious delusion amongst some of the real die hards and it doesn't aid the cause.

I disagree

Boosting the wage means that kids will see it as a genuine profession and talented female athletes will choose AFLW over other sports.

Sure, the current players probably aren't deserving of what they're getting but hopefully the ones who follow will be.

It's the same as support (bums on seats, eyeballs on screens). Those who are passionate about women's sport need to show their supposed passion now, before the standard of the competition deserves it. Invest their time/money now and there'll be a league in the future that warrants watching

If they wait for the standard to improve before paying professional wages... and fans wait for the standard to improve before watching the game in large numbers, they'll be waiting forever

The only way to have a viable League in the future is to do what they've done, with the kick-start.

However those who believe in equality are f***ing it up by not showing up

 

[1970crow]

I disagree

Boosting the wage means that kids will see it as a genuine profession and talented female athletes will choose AFLW over other sports.

Sure, the current players probably aren't deserving of what they're getting but hopefully the ones who follow will be.

It's the same as support (bums on seats, eyeballs on screens). Those who are passionate about women's sport need to show their supposed passion now, before the standard of the competition deserves it. Invest their time/money now and there'll be a league in the future that warrants watching

If they wait for the standard to improve before paying professional wages... and fans wait for the standard to improve before watching the game in large numbers, they'll be waiting forever

The only way to have a viable League in the future is to do what they've done, with the kick-start.

However those who believe in equality are f***ing it up by not showing up

It’s too quick and it’s placing unnecessary stress on the game. $67k is obscene money for a few months part time work when the players can’t execute skills and the game is bleeding $ in the tens of million range. You can map out the wage increases over 15 years and achieve the same result re incentivising the kids. And reality is the girls will play it anyway because they love the game.

I’m all for the AFL investing strongly in the game, but the salaries are almost entirely wastage. If it was going to be spent on wages, they should consider beefing up the $ at state league level. An extra $5k per season for the semi-pros would provide better value. Then a range from $20k - $30k for part-timers and then the $100k rate for the full timers that do other stuff for the club/league when not playing.

You just can’t pay the amount they’re paying with the $ they generate.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

It’s too quick and it’s placing unnecessary stress on the game. $67k is obscene money for a few months part time work when the players can’t execute skills and the game is bleeding $ in the tens of million range. You can map out the wage increases over 15 years and achieve the same result re incentivising the kids. And reality is the girls will play it anyway because they love the game.

I’m all for the AFL investing strongly in the game, but the salaries are almost entirely wastage. If it was going to be spent on wages, they should consider beefing up the $ at state league level. An extra $5k per season for the semi-pros would provide better value. Then a range from $20k - $30k for part-timers and then the $100k rate for the full timers that do other stuff for the club/league when not playing.

You just can’t pay the amount they’re paying with the $ they generate.

The AFL/state associations spent 50+ years trying to grow the women's game organically, from the ground up, investing in state leagues, club programs, school programs, girls Auskick centres

Millions and millions spent

Was a dismal, dismal failure. Remained very much a minority sport.

The reality was that girls didn't play football.

The only way to grow the game is to start with the end product. That will drive what they've failed to achieve through traditional Grow The Game methods. And it is happening. The national profile of the sport is now driving participation.

AFLW has/is knocking off other sports as the sport of choice for talented girls, which it has never done before in history.

The missing link is the feminists who it turns out are massive hypocrites, don't give a shit about women's sport, don't go to games and will be 100% to blame when the investment stops and AFLW goes the way of Port's China Initiative and our Baseball team

 

[Mutineer]

A Crow attacking the Richmond drone they use to film at training LOL

 

[BRL121]

A Crow attacking the Richmond drone they use to film at training LOL

View attachment 2477851


View attachment 2477852

How many draft picks will we lose?

 

[brucetiki]

I liked the AFLW when they played in the off season, gave me some footy to watch, but playing it in the middle of finals is dumb, by the time I'm ready to watch it most of the season is over.

This!

It was moved from the start of the year to the end of the year because many of the games were played in searing heat.

Now they have a situation where you’re playing minor round matches at 5:00pm on a Friday afternoon, or 10:30am Saturday morning in September to play around the men’s finals.

Then by the time the league gets clean air in October, footy fatigue has really set in. By the time the AFLW Finals are on, I’m ready to completely switch off from footy until March but at the same time want to get behind our AFLW side

 

[Bovo]

I liked the AFLW when they played in the off season, gave me some footy to watch, but playing it in the middle of finals is dumb, by the time I'm ready to watch it most of the season is over.

But Aussie rules is not a summer sport and really needs to avoid the warmer months

 

[Daniel6]

This!

It was moved from the start of the year to the end of the year because many of the games were played in searing heat.

Now they have a situation where you’re playing minor round matches at 5:00pm on a Friday afternoon, or 10:30am Saturday morning in September to play around the men’s finals.

Then by the time the league gets clean air in October, footy fatigue has really set in. By the time the AFLW Finals are on, I’m ready to completely switch off from footy until March but at the same time want to get behind our AFLW side

I would like the season to run from mid November, December, January, with finals play in February

If they AFL wanted, they could have a Christmas/New Years break but that’s peak summer school holidays time and would be the best time to really encourage parents to get their kids to as many games as possible.

Thursday to Sunday night games with afternoon and twilight games on Saturday and Sunday. The risk is playing games during January, February and March in 35+ degree and that’s unsafe for both players and spectators but the W League does it and that seems to work.

 

[DJ75]

I would like the season to run from mid November, December, January, with finals play in February

If they AFL wanted, they could have a Christmas/New Years break but that’s peak summer school holidays time and would be the best time to really encourage parents to get their kids to as many games as possible.

Thursday to Sunday night games with afternoon and twilight games on Saturday and Sunday. The risk is playing games during January, February and March in 35+ degree and that’s unsafe for both players and spectators but the W League does it and that seems to work.

This.
Make it a night game league if the heat is a problem. All games under lights. Prime time for TV. Have Christmas day and NYE games (could be double headers if you want). Make it a real event.
You give it clear air, it's own marquee time slots, make it a real festival etc... and you could turn it into something great.

Instead the geniuses at AFL house have buried it (I think deliberately) in shit time slots and have it running at the worst time (clashing with the mens game, then trade week, then the draft etc...) It's so unbelievably stupid.

 

[Daniel6]

This.
Make it a night game league if the heat is a problem. All games under lights. Prime time for TV. Have Christmas day and NYE games (could be double headers if you want). Make it a real event.
You give it clear air, it's own marquee time slots, make it a real festival etc... and you could turn it into something great.

Instead the geniuses at AFL house have buried it (I think deliberately) in shit time slots and have it running at the worst time (clashing with the mens game, then trade week, then the draft etc...) It's so unbelievably stupid.

Agree. All good points.

 

[treeman]

This.
Make it a night game league if the heat is a problem. All games under lights. Prime time for TV. Have Christmas day and NYE games (could be double headers if you want). Make it a real event.
You give it clear air, it's own marquee time slots, make it a real festival etc... and you could turn it into something great.

Instead the geniuses at AFL house have buried it (I think deliberately) in shit time slots and have it running at the worst time (clashing with the mens game, then trade week, then the draft etc...) It's so unbelievably stupid.

I've always thought this was the best idea but I don't know if it would truly work.
With daylight savings it kind of kills it because it isn't dark till 8:30pm then you expect young kids to be going? Yes it will be summer holidays but it will be on this late it will be make it challenging for families.

 

[Daniel6]

I've always thought this was the best idea but I don't know if it would truly work.
With daylight savings it kind of kills it because it isn't dark till 8:30pm then you expect young kids to be going? Yes it will be summer holidays but it will be on this late it will be make it challenging for families.

I’m not sure if people remember, or if I don’t remember or was a huge factor to me as I was a kid, but before the Crows began, footy is South Australia didn’t start until 8:10 pm.

Thursday games could start at 7:00 pm, but Friday and Saturday could become double headers with a later start as there is no school the next day.

But you do make a very valid point as it is a major concern for parents having kids out late on school nights.

 

[WeeBlake]

View attachment 2477830

As much as it pains me to say it - the outlier in that graph is Hawthorn.

And at the other end of the spectrum- Essendon

 

[Mostyn]

But Aussie rules is not a summer sport and really needs to avoid the warmer months

Why?

Play all the games at twilight when it cools.

 

[Daniel6]

Why?

Play all the games at twilight when it cools.

Anytime between 4 and 7 pm in January to March, it can still be low to mid 40’s in Adelaide and Melbourne.

 

[Adecagodelphalaide]

I vaguely recall having a bit of an argument about claiming of aboriginality in here months ago. I don't claim mine because I've grown up white and without any of the historical challenges faced by indigenous Australians. I abhor white people claiming aboriginality when they've grown up white, it's disrespectful to genuine indigenous Australians. That's my opinion at least. I'm pretty sure that I had very little support for my views, particularly from the Jen types. I'm surprised Kristof and a coupe of our local mods are expressing these types of views, inclusivity only when it suits I guess.

Why does it have to be about 'claiming' and the challenges you've faced? Is it not ok to just be proud of or celebrate your heritage or family's history?

No one bats an eyelid if someone is proud of their Scottish heritage because their grandma comes from Scotland. Yet it's such a huge point of contention if someone's grandma is Aboriginal and they aren't dark enough, to the point where the options are to either disown it or be made fun of.

 

[Bovo]

Why?

Play all the games at twilight when it cools.

footy is a winter sport. It’s a lot of running and working up a sweat. It doesn’t belong in summer.

 

[mcleod at 50 lines it up]

Why does it have to be about 'claiming' and the challenges you've faced? Is it not ok to just be proud of or celebrate your heritage or family's history?

No one bats an eyelid if someone is proud of their Scottish heritage because their grandma comes from Scotland. Yet it's such a huge point of contention if someone's grandma is Aboriginal and they aren't dark enough, to the point where the options are to either disown it or be made fun of.

Pretty obvious why, there's a financial gain for claiming the latter. Or in this case with port they're searching the family tree to try and rort the system. There's no cultural link.