Next Generation

[Ohitsthatguy]

Problem is the Copeland precedent.

Takes wickets for fun at Shield level, seemingly an obvious selection...but then you find that he's a bit too slow to trouble Test batsmen.

From what others have said, Hazlewood/Boland are a good 5-10 km/h quicker.

True but Copeland only got three tests in Sri Lanka, not like he was given a long rope

Plus I think he's better than Copeland and deserves a look

But obviously if Jhye gets back to his fittest he gets the spot

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Surely Fergus O'Neill (despite his pace) is too good to not have a look at at some stage?

To me he is the natural Hazlewood/Boland replacement.

Bartlett will be next can off the ranks. It's between him and Jhye Richardson. Love Fergus but he needs to pick up 5-10kms of pace to really threaten at the next level. He was decent against the Lions but that's the equivalent of bowling to shield players TBH.

 

[the_interloper]

Jhye Richardson (if he can get his body right) surely next in?

For sure, he's been one of the stiff ones with the incredible resilience of Haze/Cummins/Starc

 

[hugecannon]

Bartlett

What sort of pace does he usually operate at?

He strikes me as someone who’s usually in the mid 130’s range which can get exposed a bit at the highest level.

 

[ioppolo]

Fergus gives me ol' Chadd Sayers vibes. Didn't he average something like 22 for a few seasons straight in the shield?

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

And he played one test, what's your point?

 

[ioppolo]

And he played one test, what's your point?

Pace will likely get found out at international level. He'll be handy in England, South Africa and NZ but otherwise I dare say he'll be a non factor.

 

[The_Reaper]

I feel like Bracken could have done more at test level

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Bartlett

Absolutely. Bloke looks great. I know everyone questions his pace, but Oneill keeps taking wickets against all opponents

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Bartlett will be next can off the ranks. It's between him and Jhye Richardson. Love Fergus but he needs to pick up 5-10kms of pace to really threaten at the next level. He was decent against the Lions but that's the equivalent of bowling to shield players TBH.

Sure, but it’s also potentially the next English players at a similar point in their career. If he’s taking wickets against them on a docile pitch, surely he has a chance

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

What sort of pace does he usually operate at?

He strikes me as someone who’s usually in the mid 130’s range which can get exposed a bit at the highest level.

Mid to late 130s, it's quick enough. Hazlewood hovers around 138-139 most deliveries with the odd ones hitting 140.

 

[eth-dog]

What sort of pace does he usually operate at?

He strikes me as someone who’s usually in the mid 130’s range which can get exposed a bit at the highest level.

Mid to high on the eye. Which is similar to Haze. And at 26 it's a great time to ease him in for a test in Sydney potentially

 

[western royboy]

Fergus gives me ol' Chadd Sayers vibes. Didn't he average something like 22 for a few seasons straight in the shield?

Chadd Sayers was a FC gun, but again in that era he just wasn’t considered fast enough to be given a crack.

Ironic to watch Carey stand up to the bowlers the other night and undo England when they’ve shunned it themselves

 

[melanChronic]

Pace will likely get found out at international level. He'll be handy in England, South Africa and NZ but otherwise I dare say he'll be a non factor.

I think that was more of a Boof Lehmann line of thinking. Sayers didn't even get his test until the match after Lehmann resigned in disgrace.

McDonald as a former dobbler I reckon would be open to bowlers with less pace and more nous.

 

[western royboy]

I think that was more of a Boof Lehmann line of thinking. Sayers didn't even get his test until the match after Lehmann resigned in disgrace.

McDonald as a former dobbler I reckon would be open to bowlers with less pace and more nous.

As much as I’d like to believe that was the case I doubt it. McDonald was a batting version of Webster, an exceptionally good player with bat or ball, but never good enough to get a game at the highest level with either. I am not sure who wrote the Australian Selectors Manual (possibly Hohns) but it says our first preference is to pick 3 x Tall Fast Bowlers who bowl at a minimum of 140 km in most places.

 

[melanChronic]

As much as I’d like to believe that was the case I doubt it. McDonald was a batting version of Webster, an exceptionally good player with bat or ball, but never good enough to get a game at the highest level with either. I am not sure who wrote the Australian Selectors Manual (possibly Hohns) but it says our first preference is to pick 3 x Tall Fast Bowlers who bowl at a minimum of 140 km in most places.

It's definitely a preference to have bowlers who can bowl 140 clicks, but they don't grow on trees (or if they exist they are often injured). Having these 3 great fast bowlers all around and mainly injury free for so long has been a crazy anomaly. Their level of control and ability to maintain that pace over a match or series is also definitely not a given for high velocity quicks.

If it becomes a choice between Morris and Meredith over Bartlett and O'Neill, then it's a different story. It sounds like there are a decent batch of young express quicks e.g. Beardman and Vidler coming through, but who knows how they'll develop or deal with inevitable injuries at this point. I reckon CA will be very careful to not do a Cummins with the next generational quick that pops up at 18 or 19 years old.

 

[western royboy]

It's definitely a preference to have bowlers who can bowl 140 clicks, but they don't grow on trees (or if they exist they are often injured). Having these 3 great fast bowlers all around and mainly injury free for so long has been a crazy anomaly. Their level of control and ability to maintain that pace over a match or series is also definitely not a given for high velocity quicks.

If it becomes a choice between Morris and Meredith over Bartlett and O'Neill, then it's a different story. It sounds like there are a decent batch of young express quicks e.g. Beardman and Vidler coming through, but who knows how they'll develop or deal with inevitable injuries at this point. I reckon CA will be very careful to not do a Cummins with the next generational quick that pops up at 18 or 19 years old.

When Cummins appeared, bowling restrictions were in and policed at every level except first class. From memory he went into a Shield Final and bowled a shit load of overs under Katich, then went into Test Cricket and we know what happened.

 

[melanChronic]

When Cummins appeared, bowling restrictions were in and policed at every level except first class. From memory he went into a Shield Final and bowled a shit load of overs under Katich, then went into Test Cricket and we know what happened.

Yep exactly, I reckon that's why Beardman is being kept to white ball and CAXI stuff so far, they don't want him in the hands of a FC captain trying to win as priority #1.

I think it's a better option than jeopardising the integrity of the Shield and restricting bowlers there. Mind you Vidler played the final last year (presumably unrestricted) and now he's out for the season I think.

To some extent I think they can't control things too much as anyone bowling proper quick is going to get stress fractures at some point. But they are hopefully getting better at early identification and intervention now which theoretically can lead to faster turnarounds when they happen.

 

[Black Diamond]

All of the great fast bowlers, and many slow bowlers, suffer a significant injury or go through a rough period. It was always stupid policy.

 

[9874123]

All this talk of pace bowlers, I wanted to put together a list of potential options under 30yo and how they're going. Let me know if you think I have missed anyone. Bit of a gap between 20-25 years old here, but I think thats normal as one extrapolates 20 year olds above what they normally end up producing, but I think thats normal:

Test level players (could come in and do a job this series if they were fit):

Jhye Richardson 115 FC wickets @ 115 20.7 (5 @ 15.2 this season)
Obviously a test level talent as was seen when he did get the chance to play test cricket.

Riley Meredith 122 FC wickets @ 30.67 (17 @ 18.35 this season)
Not as talented as the two above, but raw speed gun numbers will have him in and around the test conversation if we need pure speed. Is having a great season this year in Shield. I haven't watched any Tassie games so I can't say where the improvement has come from, but great to see him getting good figures.

Lance Morris 87 FC wickets @ 24.75 (none this season)
Things really need to start going right for Lance, he obviously has talent too but but hasn't had a good run at it for a long time. Unfortunately I think too much damage might have been done.

Test players in waiting (players who I think are close to being able to play tests and will get there)

Xavier Bartlett 106 FC wickets @ 25.88 (12 @ 20.08 this season)
I think its clear that he will get his chance at some stage. Has pretty much everything you could need for a high quality test bowler. Won't be our next super star or anything but he has good pace, and can move the new ball. Has already played white ball for Australia many times and isn't as injury prone as some other pacers.

Question marks

Fergus O'neill 156 FC wickets @ 20.51 (22 @ 21.4 this season)
Not much to say about Fergus, obviously amazing figures but not quick enough. He will get his chance at some stage depending on conditions but I don't really expect him to be a permanent fixure in the test team.

Jordan Buckingham 110 FC wickets @ 28.70 (17 @ 25.94 this season)
A bit faster thatn O'neill but not as effective. He is still young so has time on his side. I could see him being one of the players who is consistently very good in shield and one day gets a couple of tests to do a job, similar to whats going on with Doggett now.

Prospects

Mahli Beardman 14 List A wickets @ 19.50
I think a sure fire test talent, if all goes well. Has absolutely everything you could want from someone his age. Great pace, good control, and good natural movement. He is the one I think is most likely to get fast-tracked into the test team. As many of our young pace prospects seem to be, he is from WA. If he was some another state, I think he already would have played some Shield.

Callum Vidler 12 FC wickets @ 28.5
Already has a shield 4fer. Extreme pace who can swing the ball comes with the expected downside of back injuries. If those can be managed and put behind him, then he too will have a long career for Australia.

Albert Esterhuysen 7 List A wickets @ 28.28
Has fit in very well alongside Beardman for WA in the One-Day cup this year in an attack lead by Joel Paris. He has also been doing incredibly well in WA Second XI this season, taking 7fer against Victoria in their first innings. Tall, good pace, and great movement. Could overtake a couple of the older players ahead of him.

Charlie Anderson 5 List A wickets @ 27.20 (5 @ 25.8 against EngXI/Lions this season)
One clearly rated by the selectors as he has been picked to play CA/PM XI on 5 occasions. He is an accurate seamer, not super quick as far as I know, but has a lot of talent. He is aborginal too, which obviously doesn't mean much but it would be nice for someone to carry to torch after Boland retires.

Aidan O'Connor 3 FC wickets @ a lot (don't worry about it)
The youngest player on the list but has played 4 times for Tassie in Shield. Seen as an all-rounder and already has a FC half century to his name. I don't know too much about him to be honest, but being consistently picked for your state (and eve n given the new ball at times) has to mean something.

Tom Straker 18 FC wickets @ 42.66
Goes a bit under the radar compared to his fellow u-19 world cup winning pacers, Straker has played the most professional cricket out of all of them and is already a main stay for QLD, having played 9 FC games already. Not quite as quick as the others but is disciplined from what I have seen and can execute a plan.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

All this talk of pace bowlers, I wanted to put together a list of potential options under 30yo and how they're going. Let me know if you think I have missed anyone. Bit of a gap between 20-25 years old here, but I think thats normal as one extrapolates 20 year olds above what they normally end up producing, but I think thats normal:

Test level players (could come in and do a job this series if they were fit):

Jhye Richardson 115 FC wickets @ 115 20.7 (5 @ 15.2 this season)
Obviously a test level talent as was seen when he did get the chance to play test cricket.

Riley Meredith 122 FC wickets @ 30.67 (17 @ 18.35 this season)
Not as talented as the two above, but raw speed gun numbers will have him in and around the test conversation if we need pure speed. Is having a great season this year in Shield. I haven't watched any Tassie games so I can't say where the improvement has come from, but great to see him getting good figures.

Lance Morris 87 FC wickets @ 24.75 (none this season)
Things really need to start going right for Lance, he obviously has talent too but but hasn't had a good run at it for a long time. Unfortunately I think too much damage might have been done.

Test players in waiting (players who I think are close to being able to play tests and will get there)

Xavier Bartlett 106 FC wickets @ 25.88 (12 @ 20.08 this season)
I think its clear that he will get his chance at some stage. Has pretty much everything you could need for a high quality test bowler. Won't be our next super star or anything but he has good pace, and can move the new ball. Has already played white ball for Australia many times and isn't as injury prone as some other pacers.

Question marks

Fergus O'neill 156 FC wickets @ 20.51 (22 @ 21.4 this season)
Not much to say about Fergus, obviously amazing figures but not quick enough. He will get his chance at some stage depending on conditions but I don't really expect him to be a permanent fixure in the test team.

Jordan Buckingham 110 FC wickets @ 28.70 (17 @ 25.94 this season)
A bit faster thatn O'neill but not as effective. He is still young so has time on his side. I could see him being one of the players who is consistently very good in shield and one day gets a couple of tests to do a job, similar to whats going on with Doggett now.

Prospects

Mahli Beardman 14 List A wickets @ 19.50
I think a sure fire test talent, if all goes well. Has absolutely everything you could want from someone his age. Great pace, good control, and good natural movement. He is the one I think is most likely to get fast-tracked into the test team. As many of our young pace prospects seem to be, he is from WA. If he was some another state, I think he already would have played some Shield.

Callum Vidler 12 FC wickets @ 28.5
Already has a shield 4fer. Extreme pace who can swing the ball comes with the expected downside of back injuries. If those can be managed and put behind him, then he too will have a long career for Australia.

Albert Esterhuysen 7 List A wickets @ 28.28
Has fit in very well alongside Beardman for WA in the One-Day cup this year in an attack lead by Joel Paris. He has also been doing incredibly well in WA Second XI this season, taking 7fer against Victoria in their first innings. Tall, good pace, and great movement. Could overtake a couple of the older players ahead of him.

Charlie Anderson 5 List A wickets @ 27.20 (5 @ 25.8 against EngXI/Lions this season)
One clearly rated by the selectors as he has been picked to play CA/PM XI on 5 occasions. He is an accurate seamer, not super quick as far as I know, but has a lot of talent. He is aborginal too, which obviously doesn't mean much but it would be nice for someone to carry to torch after Boland retires.

Aidan O'Connor 3 FC wickets @ a lot (don't worry about it)
The youngest player on the list but has played 4 times for Tassie in Shield. Seen as an all-rounder and already has a FC half century to his name. I don't know too much about him to be honest, but being consistently picked for your state (and eve n given the new ball at times) has to mean something.

Tom Straker 18 FC wickets @ 42.66
Goes a bit under the radar compared to his fellow u-19 world cup winning pacers, Straker has played the most professional cricket out of all of them and is already a main stay for QLD, having played 9 FC games already. Not quite as quick as the others but is disciplined from what I have seen and can execute a plan.

Mitchell Perry? 22 @ 19.45 this season

 

[Freezin]

Will be interesting to see who will be in the Aust bowling attack in 4 years time v Eng.....

 

[cullinan]

Solid list above of the potential under 30 year olds. There are some others to add to the list as well.

Ryan Hadley - 27 y/o 11 FC games, 26 wckets @ 36.23. Looked a bit average in previous years but looks to have found sme serious pace this year. Picked for Aussie A to play the english so the selectors must rate him highly. it was good attack with Bartlett, Oniel and Richardson, so for him to be amojngst that group might tell us something.

Tom Whitney - 23 y/o 5 Fc games, 14 wickets @36.50. Good pace albeit struggles for consistency with line and length at times. This will come as he plays more FC cricket.

Sam Elliot - 25 y/o 12 FC games 43 wickets @ 24.60 Seems maybe medium-fast but gets good blunce and nibbles the ball around. Also has 25 ListA wickets at 27.45.

Will Sutherland - 26 y/o 54 FC games 169 wickets @ 24.71. Agressive bowler always at the batsmen. Ideally needsa another 5km/hr on average

Mitch Perry - as mentioned above. Not express but quick enough and bowls good outswing. Has played a lot of FC cricket for a 25 y/o. 49 FC gaes with 140 wickets @ 29.32. he can also bat well.

Of the original list posted by 9874123, here are a few comments based on what I have seen.

Bartlett - doesnt look overly fast but is a smart bowler who mainly gets movement through the air. His performaces in white ball for Australia are amazing and is eqally impressive in red ball for QLD.

Morris - wonder how he will come back from his back surgey. Feel sorry for him - seems like CA restricted him so much to the point he kept breaking down because his body wasnt match hardened. At his best, he looks scary quick.

Richardson - awesome talent. If he gets fit, he would be the next cab off the rank IMO. Fast with movement and bowls a great line and length.

O'Neil - deserves a shot, certainly in England or NZ. His record on flat pitches isnt so good and looks to bowl high teens or low 20's except for his bouncer which surprises a few. His record is deserving of an opportunity.

Vidler is the standout prospect due to his pace so hopefully he comes back from this stress injury well. I wonder if he will get any opportunities later in he season. CA picked him for the Aus A tour of India but had to withdraw due to injury. Bowls a vicious yorker and his outswinger at pace will trouble anyone. I remeber some quotes from Carey after the Shield final about how good he was. He also looks fiery from what I have seen of him.

Beardman almost as good a prospect as Vidler and obviously CA like him given he was picked for trhe T20 squad against India. Is it WA or CA holding him back from laying Shield? It will be interesting to see what sort of pace he bowls backing up on consecutive days in red ball games. he has beaten a few players for pace in his List A games so hopefully he can replicate that in red ball. Would be great to see him play some Shield after the break and get some overs into him.

Anderson - an O'Niel type bowler probably best suited to red ball, although hasnt had a chance at NSW yet. I remeber his first List A game where Short took to him early and he came back strongly to get Maxzell and a few others to snare 3fa on debut so he must also be tough mentally.

Straker - Qld must rate him very highly and has amazing durability for a 20 year old. His bowling on consective days in a huge total and extreme heat in the Shield game v NSW were exceptional. 26 overs 2-61 and also had Konstas dropped early day 1. I watched some of his bowling against Sangha, Carey, Scott on an extremely docile Adelaide oval pitch where he returned 2-49 from 20 overs including Carey caught behind which was impressive. If he can add another 5km/hr I think he will become as good a prospect as Vidler and Beardman. Also toured India with Aus A.

Esterhuysen - tall and agressive but hard to crack the WA shield team. Has been very impressive in List A.

Im sure there are others around as well. On the whole, I think there are enough prospects to fill the massive void that wilkl be left by ythe big three in future years. They will be hard to replace but Im sure Australia will keep producing quality quicks.

 

[Yoda_]

Fergus gives me ol' Chadd Sayers vibes. Didn't he average something like 22 for a few seasons straight in the shield?

will join a long list of Aussie dobblers who weren't in that thunderbolt category constantly overlooked.

Chad Sayers, Michael Neser probably should have played more test cricket, Trent Copeland etc

 

[Yoda_]

The two guys banging the door down in the sweet spot are Bartlett and Doggett with Buckingham probably a seat behind. Wouldn't surprise if they skipped a generation and started looking at O'Neil, Perry, Vidler, Straker, Beardman etc.