Autopsy Hawks Far Too Good For Dogs In 40 Point Drubbing 104 - 64

[lachy]

Yep I did miss the GF. I saw the game against the Hawks in the Prelim (watched online not live), then saw the Swans pre-season game live and then Footscray’s R1 game against Casey live. The 3 games I saw suggested he’s miles off, but happy to be told his GF makes up for it despite the stats (which aren’t everything)

What about independant comments from the AFL

Biography from AFL .com from last season
Another fantastic season of growth for the bullocking ruckman and an AFL debut shouldn’t be too far away. Played all 21 matches for Footscray and lifted his averages to 14.4 disposals, 33.9 hit-outs, 4.7 clearances and 4.6 tackles and put in a terrific shift in the VFL Grand Final to contribute 15 touches, 35 hit-outs and seven clearances. Ran riot in the qualifying final against Frankston with 22 possessions (16 contested), four marks, 39 hit-outs, seven clearances, six entries and a goal.

 

[lachy]

Did Smith really beat Crossley in the GF? The hitouts were 65-35 against him and Crossley was the highest rated player on the ground? I know stats aren’t everything but just curious if you watched and he actually did? Even then the same opposition was deemed not worth listing in favour of holding a spot open for the MSD so it’s not an obvious selection.

Someone at the AFL thought so, as did I

Biography from AFL .com from last season
Another fantastic season of growth for the bullocking ruckman and an AFL debut shouldn’t be too far away. Played all 21 matches for Footscray and lifted his averages to 14.4 disposals, 33.9 hit-outs, 4.7 clearances and 4.6 tackles and put in a terrific shift in the VFL Grand Final to contribute 15 touches, 35 hit-outs and seven clearances. Ran riot in the qualifying final against Frankston with 22 possessions (16 contested), four marks, 39 hit-outs, seven clearances, six entries and a goal.

 

[Doggy]

West said he spoke to Richards who said it was a "little bit of an ankle roll"

 

[Here we go dogs]

Yep I did miss the GF. I saw the game against the Hawks in the Prelim (watched online not live), then saw the Swans pre-season game live and then Footscray’s R1 game against Casey live. The 3 games I saw suggested he’s miles off, but happy to be told his GF makes up for it despite the stats (which aren’t everything)

His had an interrupted pre season. His footy last year was good for the most part. If Smith was moving freely and fit I’d opt with him as a pure ruckman over Emmett.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

I didn’t see the game but have the people calling for Smith to come in watched him play? He got monstered in the hitouts be Reeves and Ramsden in the VFL finals last year. Then in the first scratch match this year they had to take him out of the ruck against Grundy because he was getting killed and then Emmett did a far better job that day. I’m not suggesting Emmett is the solution, but I don’t think Smith is either.

And at the age of 20, nor should he be. I think he is developing fine but there is very few rucks in the league who are capable at such a raw age. Mitch Edwards has looked pretty decent, who we'll come up against next week and he is only slightly older so maybe they will try a young ruck again next week

We were fortunate to have Sweet as a back up for a few years before he left for opportunities but it took him a while to get to where he did. Wasn't until his third season that he chopped out and he was 23 years old by then. I'm surprised we haven't made any attempt to get a mature back up on the list while we wait for the younger guys to develop. I have no doubt Emmett will be more than capable as he grows into his body and I think Smith could be as well

I would be going to Lobb straightaway and thought we should have done it this week. I know it disrupts the defense a little bit but think you have to have someone who can compete in the ruck for most of the game, and Emmett and Croft are not there yet. A chop out here and there is fine but so often we were starting on the back foot as their big boys did as they pleased. The only time we got on top of the clearances was during that run late in the third while Lobb was rucking and then we went away from it again

 

[Oliver G]

I believe tonight was our least experienced team (82.4 average) in almost 4 years (R10 2022 with 81.6).

 

[doggiesin08]

What about independant comments from the AFL

Biography from AFL .com from last season
Another fantastic season of growth for the bullocking ruckman and an AFL debut shouldn’t be too far away. Played all 21 matches for Footscray and lifted his averages to 14.4 disposals, 33.9 hit-outs, 4.7 clearances and 4.6 tackles and put in a terrific shift in the VFL Grand Final to contribute 15 touches, 35 hit-outs and seven clearances. Ran riot in the qualifying final against Frankston with 22 possessions (16 contested), four marks, 39 hit-outs, seven clearances, six entries and a goal.

To directly address your question:

• Without knowing who the author is or if the AFL website asks for club contributions to those player profiles it’s hard to say if it’s independent
• I’d be 99% confident in saying nearly every profile is written with a positive skew, but happy to be shown examples of the AFL website saying players look miles off it

I’m genuinely asking my questions in good faith:

• Did he really comfortably beat Crossley on the GF as asserted, or just put in a shift. The stats suggest otherwise. I didn’t watch so will defer to people who did.
• Did his form from this year warrant inclusion? The games I saw against Sydney and Casey (where I thought he was really poor) suggested to me it didn’t.

 

[MaxiBont]

I feel like we missed Jaques tonight. Not like he would have turned the game but someone with pace and a clean disposal.

I also think Bramble at HB isn’t great at this stage and I much prefer him at HF.

 

[Munnez]

Our putrid goal kicking never let us mount any sort of pressure on the Hawks. Always able to kick clear and have the game on their terms.
Allows freedom to be creative and take risks. Knowing that Rucks are dominant can get on the front foot at contests.

What has happened to our ball use it was terrible tonight. Even some of our better
users like Dale were missing simple targets. Think Hawks definitely have a mental edge on us, struggle to understand why our use of the ball was so far off standard

 

[Selim]

I feel like we missed Jaques tonight. Not like he would have turned the game but someone with pace and a clean disposal.

I also think Bramble at HB isn’t great at this stage and I much prefer him at HF.

was Bailey Williams also more HB tonight it felt like it, i feel we are a much much better side when he is playing wing and not as a defender

 

[TheScriptorWL]

From the Horse's mouth, it's a pesky Ankle roll for Richards. What a relief if that assessment holds up. Libba and Red back in the middle next week? Bont, as captain, should be given free rein to roam wherever he is needed. Quarter to Quarter

 

[Libba39]

We showed flashes.

It was probably one of Sanders better games, and Hynes eventually shook off his tentativeness. Gallagher showed glimpses, and Croft is going to take Mark of the year one day.

Overall though it reminded me of pretty much every Hawks game for the past three years. They really do have our measure. They pressured us perfectly and forced us back right from the start, then controlled the ball. When we had it they flicked the switch again and the pressure meant delivery into forward 50 was woeful.

Not panic stations yet but my left eye is starting to twitch.

 

[MaxiBont]

was Bailey Williams also more HB tonight it felt like it, i feel we are a much much better side when he is playing wing and not as a defender

Yep, spent 92% of his game in the defensive half.

Completely agree, think he’s much more effective in that wing/forward role

 

[Snarls Barkley]

To directly address your question:

• Without knowing who the author is or if the AFL website asks for club contributions to those player profiles it’s hard to say if it’s independent
• I’d be 99% confident in saying nearly every profile is written with a positive skew, but happy to be shown examples of the AFL website saying players look miles off it

I’m genuinely asking my questions in good faith:

• Did he really comfortably beat Crossley on the GF as asserted, or just put in a shift. The stats suggest otherwise. I didn’t watch so will defer to people who did.
• Did his form from this year warrant inclusion? The games I saw against Sydney and Casey (where I thought he was really poor) suggested to me it didn’t.

Game Day Thread 'Footscray Bulldogs vs Southport Sharks, VFL Grand Final 2:15pm Ikon Park'

Sep 21, 2025

2025 SMITHY'S VFL GRAND FINAL​

Footscray Bulldogs vs Southport Sharks
Sunday, September 21
2:15pm AEST
IKON Park
Entry via Gate 5 and Gate 6 from 1:00pm

BROADCAST​

The 2025 Smithy’s VFL Grand Final will be broadcast live and free by the Seven Network via 7mate in Victoria and 7plus nationally. The match will also be streamed live and free on AFL.com.au and the AFL Live Official App.

TEAMS​

FOOTSCRAY BULLDOGS
B: Jedd Busslinger (5), Liam Jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

35

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

(19), Nick Coffield (17)
HB: Taylor Duryea

15

Taylor Duryea

Age

35

Ht

181cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.0

4star

K

10.7

4star

HB

5.3

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.8

4star

(15), Ryan Gardner (43), Lachie Jaques (11)...

• Testekill
• Replies: 661
• Forum: Western Bulldogs

• 

Here is the thread of the game if you want to search for live comments about the performance. Mostly complimentary on him being able to nullify Crossley's dominance a bit

He gave away 8 free kicks and his opponent had 65 hit outs so its hard to say he won the duel, but sounds like he put up a pretty good fight against a much more mature body

Crossley would be on all 18 AFL lists if he wanted to. While he doesn't get into AFL shape no one is going to take a chance on him, but he is good enough to be a back up anywhere

 

[dogwatch]

... We have nowhere near the depth that some of us thought.

Most off seasons I read here how much depth we have got. That idea usually lasts until about Round 2 or 3. This year it lasted until Round 4 but I guess we had the bye.

The reality is with salary caps and a max list size of 42-44 most clubs are going to struggle for depth, especially if it's their top end players who are injured. In our case English, Richards, Treloar, Weightman, Liberatore. Note that four of them are midfielders if you count English - that is his real strength. It hurts when most of your injuries are in one part of the field.

When we had players like Harmes and Scott waiting in the wings we could be confident we'd get a solid performance from them if they had to play. Baker was another but now he's become a regular senior so you can't count him as a reserve any more.

That's the sort of seasoned player you need to bring in if you have invested a lot in the 18yos at the draft. Or if you've lost the maturing players like Smith and JUH. Teams like Hawthorn and Geelong are constantly topping up with quality mature players and only occasionally dip deep into the draft. Perhaps that's one reason they are usually at the upper end of the ladder.

When most of your reserve list are players under 21 with very limited experience it's hard to expect they'll be able to match it with the Newcombes of the league. Not many are ready as quickly as Freijah.

Brendan MacCartney got a lot wrong but he was right about needing to develop a hardened list to really challenge.

 

[doggiesin08]

Game Day Thread 'Footscray Bulldogs vs Southport Sharks, VFL Grand Final 2:15pm Ikon Park'

Sep 21, 2025

2025 SMITHY'S VFL GRAND FINAL​

Footscray Bulldogs vs Southport Sharks
Sunday, September 21
2:15pm AEST
IKON Park
Entry via Gate 5 and Gate 6 from 1:00pm

BROADCAST​

The 2025 Smithy’s VFL Grand Final will be broadcast live and free by the Seven Network via 7mate in Victoria and 7plus nationally. The match will also be streamed live and free on AFL.com.au and the AFL Live Official App.

TEAMS​

FOOTSCRAY BULLDOGS
B: Jedd Busslinger (5), Liam Jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

35

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

(19), Nick Coffield (17)
HB: Taylor Duryea

15

Taylor Duryea

Age

35

Ht

181cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.0

4star

K

10.7

4star

HB

5.3

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

2.1

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.8

4star

(15), Ryan Gardner (43), Lachie Jaques (11)...

• Testekill
• Replies: 661
• Forum: Western Bulldogs

• 

Here is the thread of the game if you want to search for live comments about the performance. Mostly complimentary on him being able to nullify Crossley's dominance a bit

He gave away 8 free kicks and his opponent had 65 hit outs so its hard to say he won the duel, but sounds like he put up a pretty good fight against a much more mature body

Crossley would be on all 18 AFL lists if he wanted to. While he doesn't get into AFL shape no one is going to take a chance on him, but he is good enough to be a back up anywhere

Yeah I'm not saying he didn't have a good game in that Grand Final. I'm just noting that there's a big difference between "putting in a shift" or "comfortably beating" Crossley as asserted (despite the stats stating otherwise). Then when I overlay the games I have seen him play including this year I was hardly surprised that Emmett was preferred.

Thank you for linking.

 

[BomToydd]

Didn't see the game. How did Freijah go? Haven't seen many mentions of him here. For someone who is supposed to be one of our most promising players I feel like he goes missing a bit too much.

 

[DognBones]

To directly address your question:

• Without knowing who the author is or if the AFL website asks for club contributions to those player profiles it’s hard to say if it’s independent
• I’d be 99% confident in saying nearly every profile is written with a positive skew, but happy to be shown examples of the AFL website saying players look miles off it

I’m genuinely asking my questions in good faith:

• Did he really comfortably beat Crossley on the GF as asserted, or just put in a shift. The stats suggest otherwise. I didn’t watch so will defer to people who did.
• Did his form from this year warrant inclusion? The games I saw against Sydney and Casey (where I thought he was really poor) suggested to me it didn’t.

In terms of pure ruck work, Crossley was more effective: 65 hitouts to 35, 11 tackles to 5. He had 13 disposals to Smiths 15 and took 3 marks to Smiths 0. Generally though, Smith was very competitive and didn't allow Crossley to dominate as he has in most of his games. Consider also the wide range in age and experience. Needless to say, Crossley would be a handy backup right now.
I'm worried that the new centre bounce rules don't suit Smith's style because he's not an athletic jumper but he's very competitive at throw-ins and stoppages. Let's see if he can adjust to the new rule before we think about promotion.

 

[doggiesin08]

And at the age of 20, nor should he be. I think he is developing fine but there is very few rucks in the league who are capable at such a raw age. Mitch Edwards has looked pretty decent, who we'll come up against next week and he is only slightly older so maybe they will try a young ruck again next week

We were fortunate to have Sweet as a back up for a few years before he left for opportunities but it took him a while to get to where he did. Wasn't until his third season that he chopped out and he was 23 years old by then. I'm surprised we haven't made any attempt to get a mature back up on the list while we wait for the younger guys to develop. I have no doubt Emmett will be more than capable as he grows into his body and I think Smith could be as well

I would be going to Lobb straightaway and thought we should have done it this week. I know it disrupts the defense a little bit but think you have to have someone who can compete in the ruck for most of the game, and Emmett and Croft are not there yet. A chop out here and there is fine but so often we were starting on the back foot as their big boys did as they pleased. The only time we got on top of the clearances was during that run late in the third while Lobb was rucking and then we went away from it again

Yep, agreed that shouldn't be expected to beat Reeves, Crossley types in his second year as an undersized ruck.

The obvious concern with Smith is he was always going to be an undersized ruck and the new rules completely go against the style of play he was going to be developed for. Even when you compare him to Mitch Edwards from the same draft crop, Smith was only giving away 4cm in height when drafted, but Edwards recorded a 94cm vertical compared to only 72cm for Smith (not sure if that was standing or running).

 

[dogwatch]

I feel like we missed Jaques tonight. Not like he would have turned the game but someone with pace and a clean disposal.

I also think Bramble at HB isn’t great at this stage and I much prefer him at HF.

Hoping Carmichael can make the step up too. Sounds like a similar type from some early reports (I haven't seen him play yet).

 

[4Seasons]

It’s either try Smith in place of Emmett, or use Lobb & bring in Busslinger. I don’t think there’s much more we could do apart from that. Could use Darcy & bring in Lewis, but **** risking Darcy getting injured for that.

Even if we had big Tommy Campbell tonight it would have been a different game lol

Oh no, someone might get injured

 

[Blewdog]

Smith might be shit, but so was emmett tonight. If we are gonna play a shit ruck we may as well play the bloke that has been in the system a few years and is actually a ruck. Am i going crazy?

 

[dogwatch]

Oh no, someone might get injured

 

[cherrypie]

What about independant comments from the AFL

Biography from AFL .com from last season
Another fantastic season of growth for the bullocking ruckman and an AFL debut shouldn’t be too far away. Played all 21 matches for Footscray and lifted his averages to 14.4 disposals, 33.9 hit-outs, 4.7 clearances and 4.6 tackles and put in a terrific shift in the VFL Grand Final to contribute 15 touches, 35 hit-outs and seven clearances. Ran riot in the qualifying final against Frankston with 22 possessions (16 contested), four marks, 39 hit-outs, seven clearances, six entries and a goal.

May as well disregard 2025 form when assessing Lachie Smith. The ruck rules have screwed over the rucks who prefer to wrestle, rather than jump.

Reilly O’Brien, Kieren Briggs, Sean Darcy etc have struggled this year and unfortunately Lachie is in a similar boat with the new rules not suiting his style. Small sample size but Lachie was averaging 34 hitouts per game last season, so far only 16 hitouts per game this season.

 

[go you pups]

Our putrid goal kicking never let us mount any sort of pressure on the Hawks. Always able to kick clear and have the game on their terms.
Allows freedom to be creative and take risks. Knowing that Rucks are dominant can get on the front foot at contests.

What has happened to our ball use it was terrible tonight. Even some of our better
users like Dale were missing simple targets. Think Hawks definitely have a mental edge on us, struggle to understand why our use of the ball was so far off standard

Yep

Dale definitely started the rut their early on in the game

What I don't get is why doesn't Bevo still not bother to not put hard tags on and not lock down on damaging clearance players? Time and time and time again over the years we get killed out of the middle by bigger rucks giving first use to their mids? Would've thought tonight would be the time to slow that part of the game down seeing we were at such a disadvantage in the ruck.