Which rivalry would you rate as the biggest in the AFL?

[chiwigi]

Geographic rivals are small fry

Freo v WC
Syd v GWS
Port v Adelaide

They are like your Manchester Derby Second city (Birmingham) Derby, West London derby (Chelsea v Fulham) in the premier league, normally meh for everyone apart from the people that live in the City.

Adelaide and Port have only ever played one final, a boring 10goal plus flogging.

The real big rivals come about from teams that are consistently challenging for titles

United v Liverpool
Yankees v RedSox
Lakers v Celtics
Giants v Dodgers
Madrid v Barcelona

When you get two dominant teams in a league being from same city that is where you get the really big rivalries

Old Firm - rangers v celtic
Superclasico - Boca v river

That is why in AFL you have

The big4 as they were consistently playing finals against each other.

Back in 50s-60s the biggest rivalry was Pies v Dees, but it has long died.

And modern equivalent would be Geel v Hawks who are regularly meeting in finals, have plenty of on and off-field incidents...they are the games that all fans take an interest in...not just teams from that city.

So for mine Geel v Hawks biggest AFL rivalry at present.

Only Lakers v Celtics are rivalry for anything other than geography there! Even that is pretty flaccid now they aren't competing. Rivalries based on success will inevitably fade.

United v Liverpool - that is a rivalry of the cities (Scousers and Mancs have always hated each other) and pretty recent due to the Premier league, Leeds and Everton have been the traditional rivals of these teams.
Yankees v RedSox - Boston v NY thing.
Giants v Dodgers - Not only were they both NY teams, they both re-located to California...totally geographically based!
Madrid v Barcelona - this is a political rivalry, Spain v Catalan. Facists v Socialists, Royalists v Democrats.

Rangers v Celtic is a religious/cultural rivalry. Existed even when in dfferent divisions.
Boca v River Plate is working class v affluent...political.

None of them are as asinine as ooh Geelong and Hawks are quite good atm. That's not real rivalry, anymore than every other team are their rivals. The only ones that have geography, history, politics etc. as well as footy should be considered (imo of course).

 

[Shaz2012]

TL; DW;

The SANFL were approached to join the AFL. The sticking point being a $4m (iirc) joining fee.

All clubs including PAFC unanimously vote not to join. Shortly after this vote, Port Adelaide back stab the rest of the teams and secretly approach the AFL to join. News of this treachery is only leaked after an agreement has been reached but not signed.

SANFL put in a court challenge to delay the deal (iirc) and eventually join in their place. Port will forever be backstabbing traitors, not to mention destroying any negotiating position the state may have had.

Just think what you would think of a club in your league that did this. This is the moral character of the club that is Port Adelaide. They are worth every bit of disdain that the greater SA footballing public hold them in.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Everyone flips the bird at Collingwood though

View attachment 612845

and everyone has a smile on their face which is good to see.

 

[Papa G]

TL; DW;

The SANFL were approached to join the AFL. The sticking point being a $4m (iirc) joining fee.

All clubs including PAFC unanimously vote not to join. Shortly after this vote, Port Adelaide back stab the rest of the teams and secretly approach the AFL to join. News of this treachery is only leaked after an agreement has been reached but not signed.

SANFL put in a court challenge to delay the deal (iirc) and eventually join in their place. Port will forever be backstabbing traitors, not to mention destroying any negotiating position the state may have had.

Just think what you would think of a club in your league that did this. This is the moral character of the club that is Port Adelaide. They are worth every bit of disdain that the greater SA footballing public hold them in.

And here is the layers I spoke of before. Adelaide supporters despise Port for the "treachery" of 1990. This "treachery" was the direct cause of the formation of the team they now love. It is an interesting paradox.

 

[Monkey King]

The SA rivalry is a 150 year old rivalry. The Crows team may be recent, but who they represent (their whole reason for existing) have hated Port for over a century.

I know Crows supporters who were SANFL Magpie supporters, so it’s not this clear cut.

 

[chiwigi]

I know Crows supporters who were SANFL Magpie supporters, so it’s not this clear cut.

A tiny, tiny proportion. Made up of those who didn’t wait for us to get to the National league.

 

[chiwigi]

TL; DW;

The SANFL were approached to join the AFL. The sticking point being a $4m (iirc) joining fee.

All clubs including PAFC unanimously vote not to join. Shortly after this vote, Port Adelaide back stab the rest of the teams and secretly approach the AFL to join. News of this treachery is only leaked after an agreement has been reached but not signed.

SANFL put in a court challenge to delay the deal (iirc) and eventually join in their place. Port will forever be backstabbing traitors, not to mention destroying any negotiating position the state may have had.

Just think what you would think of a club in your league that did this. This is the moral character of the club that is Port Adelaide. They are worth every bit of disdain that the greater SA footballing public hold them in.

We stopped you pissanting the opportunity.
We are on the big league, your club (whichever it is) will forever be playing bush league because you were pissants.
You still got the Crows and we got what we wanted.
Stop crying.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

TL; DW;

The SANFL were approached to join the AFL. The sticking point being a $4m (iirc) joining fee.

All clubs including PAFC unanimously vote not to join. Shortly after this vote, Port Adelaide back stab the rest of the teams and secretly approach the AFL to join. News of this treachery is only leaked after an agreement has been reached but not signed.

SANFL put in a court challenge to delay the deal (iirc) and eventually join in their place. Port will forever be backstabbing traitors, not to mention destroying any negotiating position the state may have had.

Just think what you would think of a club in your league that did this. This is the moral character of the club that is Port Adelaide. They are worth every bit of disdain that the greater SA footballing public hold them in.

 

[Goggin Our Best]

TL; DW;

The SANFL were approached to join the AFL. The sticking point being a $4m (iirc) joining fee.

All clubs including PAFC unanimously vote not to join. Shortly after this vote, Port Adelaide back stab the rest of the teams and secretly approach the AFL to join. News of this treachery is only leaked after an agreement has been reached but not signed.

SANFL put in a court challenge to delay the deal (iirc) and eventually join in their place. Port will forever be backstabbing traitors, not to mention destroying any negotiating position the state may have had.

Just think what you would think of a club in your league that did this. This is the moral character of the club that is Port Adelaide. They are worth every bit of disdain that the greater SA footballing public hold them in.

I think you are right and wrong their mate because circumstances change

Obviously the AFL wanted an SA side - so it was truly a national comp - and as you point out the SANFL knocked them back

In the pre season of 1990 however Pt Adelaide played Geelong ( and only because the SA teams had been booted out of the Escort Cup - because the SANFL wouldnt join the nat comp ) on a scorching hot Sunday afternoon at Football Park in a pre season practise match - and 28000 spectators turned up . Ican remember reading The Adelaide Advertiser on the Monday morning when it was a main sheet - and the headline was - with a picture of the crowd " Fans demand to be in National Comp " - they voted with their feet and turned up

Oakley approached Port to join - and Port thought well we can get 28000 to a bloody practise match - we have the fan base to support a side and succeed - we will join - i dont see any problem with that

 

[doppleganger]

Only Lakers v Celtics are rivalry for anything other than geography there! Even that is pretty flaccid now they aren't competing. Rivalries based on success will inevitably fade.

United v Liverpool - that is a rivalry of the cities (Scousers and Mancs have always hated each other) and pretty recent due to the Premier league, Leeds and Everton have been the traditional rivals of these teams.
Yankees v RedSox - Boston v NY thing.
Giants v Dodgers - Not only were they both NY teams, they both re-located to California...totally geographically based!
Madrid v Barcelona - this is a political rivalry, Spain v Catalan. Facists v Socialists, Royalists v Democrats.

Rangers v Celtic is a religious/cultural rivalry. Existed even when in dfferent divisions.
Boca v River Plate is working class v affluent...political.

None of them are as asinine as ooh Geelong and Hawks are quite good atm. That's not real rivalry, anymore than every other team are their rivals. The only ones that have geography, history, politics etc. as well as footy should be considered (imo of course).

??
The point being those contents are elevated from a basic geographic rivalry.

If you are a two team city, there is always going to be a big rivalry between those two teams. Big rival cities or close proximity, again a localised rivalry.

Nobody outside of Manchester n Leeds cares about the Rose derby between Manchester and Leeds because they rarely are both good at the same time, just like nobody outside of Birmingham really cares about the ‘Second City’ Derby, or outside of north east nobody really cares if Newcastle is playing Sunderland.

All competitions can rattle off numerous city rivalries, and obviously the biggest game all year for a Sunderland fan is if they are taking on Newcastle.

However, to make a the leap from a geographic rivalry to one that people in other cities care about, you have to have two teams regularly competing for titles, as that is when the rest of the competition is interested and it goes beyond the geographic interest and a big rivalry forms.

That is what all of the big sporting rivalries have in common.

That is why the big SANFL rivalry was Port v Norwood, and why the VFL had a ‘Big4’...they were the teams consistently playing in big finals and big H&A clashes.

So yeah, Port and Adelaide is obviously a fierce heated geographical rivalry...but it is lacking the success component when they were consistently squaring off in big finals and winning premierships to elevate above a geographic rival.

Even GWS have already played Sydney in two finals, more than Port and Adelaide have managed in a quarter of the time!!

 

[Shaz2012]

I think you are right and wrong their mate because circumstances change

Obviously the AFL wanted an SA side - so it was truly a national comp - and as you point out the SANFL knocked them back

In the pre season of 1990 however Pt Adelaide played Geelong ( and only because the SA teams had been booted out of the Escort Cup - because the SANFL wouldnt join the nat comp ) on a scorching hot Sunday afternoon at Football Park in a pre season practise match - and 28000 spectators turned up . Ican remember reading The Adelaide Advertiser on the Monday morning when it was a main sheet - and the headline was - with a picture of the crowd " Fans demand to be in National Comp " - they voted with their feet and turned up

Oakley approached Port to join - and Port thought well we can get 28000 to a bloody practise match - we have the fan base to support a side and succeed - we will join - i dont see any problem with that

Not really interested in debating this issue. It’s history now. Just thought some context was needed for our particular “rivalry”. Fact is that Port voted with its fellow SANFL clubs not to join and then went around their backs to join in secret. Much of the hatred toward Port is not even footy related so not even sure if you can call that part rivalry. Other rivalries seem to have some mutual respect and are based on footy. How much respect do traitors normally receive in other walks of life?

It’s all history now and despite this I love the showdown rivalry that the two clubs now have. But when I see a thread like this it just reminds me that there are some things that will never be forgotten.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Fair points

I also followed footy through the Hawks-Bombers rivalry in the 80's, it did seem very real. The Hawks- Cats thing was a bit confected to me. More Hawks fans treating the Cats with contempt not believing they can beat them when it matters, and Cats fans resenting it.

Interesting in 2017 the Tigers Cat's thing kicked off after the QF. There were even stories in the press about Cats fans getting an uncomfortable vibe at the G.

It's lasted to the present, but there wasn't any agression to us at the PF. Maybe there is a pick on someone your own size thing.

This is a shocking take.

All of it.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

? I did check the poll. That's obviously what prompted my post. As such, wondering what maks it bigger than the other rivalries?

When a whole state split nearly in 2 & dominates the news for a couple of weeks. You need to live it to really understand. You won't ever get this in Melbourne where nearly everyone is emotionally involved in a game given you have so many teams.

 

[JayJ20]

The only thing with the Hawthorn-Geelong rivalry is that I watch their games not for the rivalry, but because I’m likely getting a close game. They’ve consistently been the best sides. It’s watching the most successful teams of the modern era go at it.

It lacks the added fierceness that say a showdown or a traditional Victorian rivalry has. Most Hawthorn and Geelong supporters have respect for the other team. Sure the game is intense, but that’s where it ends really. Makes me question it’s longevity.

 

[Gavin Excell]

The QF against the cats was pent up frustration over 30 years of watching their side bully us. You could sense something in the air that was going to change that night and we all got caught up in the moment, it was nothing personal against cats fans, just the euphoria of throwing the gorilla off the back.

The way theyve carried on about it since, has carried it over into something now. From a tiger supporter perspective, I find it both annoying and amusing that cat supporters have taken it so personally, like they cant handle not beating up on us - that drives a now insatiable desire to see my side smash them and drive them into the dirt over and over again probably moreso than any other side (along with melbourne and north)

Interesting

Richmond hardly rates in my eye for rivalry

 

[Gavin Excell]

Theres an antisepticness some of the Victorian big4 rivalry

Its good when they are up and about but when not....its dreary

 

[Roddy]

The only thing with the Hawthorn-Geelong rivalry is that I watch their games not for the rivalry, but because I’m likely getting a close game. They’ve consistently been the best sides. It’s watching the most successful teams of the modern era go at it.

It lacks the added fierceness that say a showdown or a traditional Victorian rivalry has. Most Hawthorn and Geelong supporters have respect for the other team. Sure the game is intense, but that’s where it ends really. Makes me question it’s longevity.

'Longevity'? Well it's been a thing for at least 3 decades, does that count for longevity?

 

[kid_a]

Geographic rivals are small fry

Freo v WC
Syd v GWS
Port v Adelaide

They are like your Manchester Derby Second city (Birmingham) Derby, West London derby (Chelsea v Fulham) in the premier league, normally meh for everyone apart from the people that live in the City.

.

a- to even put sydney v gws in the same breath as the western derby and particularly the showdown is ludacris.

b- you are conveniently forgetting (in relation to pure geographic derbies)
England:
Arsenal v Tottenham (arsenal aint won a league for 15 years, spurs almost 60 years)
Millwall v West Ham Utd (neither has been anywhere near a trophy for a long long time barring west ham utd in 2006 fa cup, I would say it is the most volatile rivalry in english football)
Newcastle United v Sunderland (neither has been near a trophy for yonks, you will always get 48,000 plus to these match ups and broken hearts)
Sweden:
Hammarby v Djurgården (share a stadium, hammarby have won one title...ever...still get the biggest crowds in scandinavia and really judge their season on beating the other two stockholm clubs)
Aussie Rules (historically):
East Freo v South Freo
West Perth v East Perth
Greece:
PAOK v Aris (not many titles won between these two)

i could go on and on.....

but ipso facto the average Showdown these days evokes more despisement for the Opposition than the a hawks v cats game.
A cats fans will just be gutted they lost the match, rather than the fact they lost it to the Hawks.
Where as a Crows fans will be gutted two fold that they lost to Port rather than when they lose to any of the other clubs.

I guess it depends how you view what "biggest rivalry" entails, is it about the intensity of the rivalry? or what often can be at stake?..... which is really just a by-product of scheduling or luck of draw etc.

If its intensity I stand by the showdown.

 

[doppleganger]

a- to even put sydney v gws in the same breath as the western derby and particularly the showdown is ludacris.

b- you are conveniently forgetting (in relation to pure geographic derbies)
i could go on and on.....

I wasn’t conveniently forgetting anything...the point is they are all just geographically based rivals.

For a GWS fan beating Sydney is the ultimate, just like beating Eagles is the ultimate for a Docker, and beating the Crows is the ultimate for Port

For everybody not based in the city, nobody cares unless the contest is relevant to the league premiership....and recently GWS v Sydney has been a more important gane

abut ipso facto the average Showdown these days evokes more despisement for the Opposition than the a hawks v cats game.
A cats fans will just be gutted they lost the match, rather than the fact they lost it to the Hawks.
Where as a Crows fans will be gutted two fold that they lost to Port rather than when they lose to any of the other clubs.

You sure about that?

aI guess it depends how you view what "biggest rivalry" entails, is it about the intensity of the rivalry? or what often can be at stake?..... which is really just a by-product of scheduling or luck of draw etc.

If its intensity I stand by the showdown.

The point is the biggest rivals globally are ones built up even further on consistently playing in high stakes games, finals and games to decide too if the ladder etc

Nobody cares when Everton play Man City...but it is the same local rivalry that exists between United and Liverpool. The rivalry is because they are the two most successful teams in the premier league.

They are when a local geographic rival elevates itself to league wide relevance

Port n Adelaide is an intense local rivalry...but their matches rarely have any relevance in deciding a premier, hence no elevation.

It is just like Sunderland v Newcastle is an intense local rivalry, but outside of the North East nobody gives a feck as the games have no impact on titles.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I wasn’t conveniently forgetting anything...the point is they are all just geographically based rivals.

For a GWS fan beating Sydney is the ultimate, just like beating Eagles is the ultimate for a Docker, and beating the Crows is the ultimate for Port

For everybody not based in the city, nobody cares unless the contest is relevant to the league premiership....and recently GWS v Sydney has been a more important gane

Naaaah.

it means an annual treck to a hard to get to ground and elbow room at Spotless disappearing once a year.

it's certainly not the ultimate.

 

[JayJ20]

'Longevity'? Well it's been a thing for at least 3 decades, does that count for longevity?

Nah it's been a decade

 

[Papa G]

The Carlton Collingwood rivalry reached its zenith in the 70s and 80s. Reading the history it appears its importance in the previous 7 decades of state league football has been hugely overstated. If you went by doppleganger's flawed and narrow definition of what makes a rivalry you could make just as big a case for Collingwood's major rivals being Richmond, Essendon, Geelong, Melbourne, South Melbourne and Fitzroy being Collingwoods main rivals pre Gough Whitlam.

In the AFL era the rivalry has significantly waned and even feels forced with most of the media still VFL era hacks who pine for the good old days. Maguire rams it down our necks at every opportunity and the AFL/ch 7 over promote the games in a vein hope it becomes what it when colour TV was the big new thing.

 

[fallout11]

The QF against the cats was pent up frustration over 30 years of watching their side bully us. You could sense something in the air that was going to change that night and we all got caught up in the moment, it was nothing personal against cats fans, just the euphoria of throwing the gorilla off the back.

The way theyve carried on about it since, has carried it over into something now. From a tiger supporter perspective, I find it both annoying and amusing that cat supporters have taken it so personally, like they cant handle not beating up on us - that drives a now insatiable desire to see my side smash them and drive them into the dirt over and over again probably moreso than any other side (along with melbourne and north)

The 3 decade's of being bullied by the cats is fair enough for venting, I and most cats don't take it personally but I will say that iv never seen such hostility at a game and iv been to plenty of games, plenty of gee v haw games which at times comes close but that night was something different...plus, we should have played u guys at the cattery but hardwick and co would've bitched and whinged something chronic if that happened...

 

[fallout11]

I'm not sure I know of any other rivalry listed in this poll where the president of a club came out with comments like Kennett did, only to be responded to with the majority of the opposition team making a pact to never lose to that club again - before going on a massive winning streak against them while that club was amongst the best in the league.

Big games, close games, Kennett Curse, Paul Chapman's pact - huge in the grand scheme of things. The close games are a byproduct of the rivalry and not so much a cause of it.

You only have to look as far as the BigFooty main board to see the spite between Hawthorn/Geelong supporters. In fact, this is one of the few things we'd agree on.

I agree! Carl v coll have been boring as for many years now, frankly that "rivalry" doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as gee v haw or Adel v port

 

[fallout11]

Nah it's been a decade

Nah it hasn't m8...not sure why u, a bomber supporter would think they know or understand...if got a feeling its jealousy that u guys hav been irrelevant for over a decade now