Analysis "Collingwoods midfield is the best of all time" Really?

[RAPPA]

I'll get bashed from pillar to post for this, but if Lynch delivers, We'll be very close to the best forward line of the last 20 years.

Hawthorn obviously in front at the moment, and by a fair way.

You’ll also need st least one premiership with that forward line for that topic to be worthy of a thread

 

[The King!]

i like essendon when they had Anderson Kickett Long, not the best but a very instructional centreline

 

[Scotland]

Brisbane from 2001 to 2003 and Geelong 2007 - 2010 would have it beat. Even West Coast 2005 - 2006 would have a solid argument. All of those three teams had amazing top line talent - multiple Brownlow Medalists. Even Collingwood 2010 - 2011 is probably better than their current mob.

Even WC 2005/6?

That team won a flag with one of the worst premiership winning forward lines ever assembled.

Brisbane had Lynch, Bradshaw, Brown. Geelong had Mooney and Steve Johnson. Collingwood had Cloke and Didak. Even Davis was (dubiously) AA one year as a forward. WC cobbled together a forward line around Quinten Lynch, Ashley Hansen and Brent Staker (dropped before the GF) and Worsfold's patented 'throw Hunter forward' move. 80 goals from Judd/Embley/Cousins was massive.

Cox, Judd, Cousins, Kerr is the best centre square combo I've seen. Embley and Braun on the wings, Stenglein as a run with player, Fletcher, Butler, Adam Selwood and the great Rowan Jones as part of the rotation. Solid group.

Voss, Black, Akermanis, Power, Lappin the best 5 man midfield group I've seen. Geelong at their peak not far behind.

 

[PhatBoy]

Geelong’s starting midfield in the 2007 grand final was Ottens, Ablett, Bartel, Enright, Ling and Joel Corey.
The rotation was James Kelly, Joel Selwood, and Steven King.

Just the 9 All Australians with 27 jerseys between them, 2 Brownlow medallists, 24 flags.

What the hell was Lloyd thinking?

 

[HolyRioli]

I'll get bashed from pillar to post for this, but if Lynch delivers, We'll be very close to the best forward line of the last 20 years.

Hawthorn obviously in front at the moment, and by a fair way.

Hawthorn's 2013 Grand Final forward line was this:

Bruest - Franklin - Rioli
Hale - Roughead - Puopolo

with Gunston on the bench

If Lynch delivers, the Richmond forward line doesn't even get close to this.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

That midfield only managed 1 premiership together.
Geelong had a good forward line (not great) and exceptional backs during their golden run but it was the midfield which dictated games.
Chapman, Corey, Ling, Ablett, Bartel, Kelly and Selwood were always good for 20+ a game.

For sheer brilliance, you can't go past Brisbane.
That midfield was a rolls royce.
Even the lesser-likes in Ashcroft and Hart were solid players. Luke Power was a star in his own right and stepped up when the others retired.
Great midfield.

Collingwood's midfield is the best in the game currently.
They will hit their straps by the mid point of the season.

Because the rest of the team was stacked with potatoes.

Wirra and Glass being exceptions.

 

[PhatBoy]

The three obvious contenders in my time watching footy are the Lions, Eagles and Cats.
I think Cox probably gives the Eagles the edge at the very top end, ie. their top 4 mids are the best of the 3 groups, I think ours was easily the deepest.

 

[gardiner stand]

Collingwoods midfield not even in the same galaxy as Brisbane 2001-2003 and Geelong 2007- 2010.
I think everyone got carried away a bit with DeGoey who has no tank to play long periods in the middle and Beams who I believe is past his best and looks like he’s running around with concrete boots.

 

[Kwality]

This is very very speculative at best!

After Matthew Lloyds comments believing it is (he's not alone), he has lost credibility for mine.

What about the wc mids of 05 06, and the early 90's?

Or Sydney of 05 and 06?

Stkilda 09 and 10?

Collingwood of 10 and 11?

Carlton, Collingwood and Richmond of the late 70's early 80's?

Brisbane in their halcyon years?

There's so many examples that could arguably be exalted as "the best of all time"

Ok it bats deep no one is going to deny it, but to flat out rate as the "best ever" is clutching at straws.

It's hyperbole of the highest order.

Are any of the BF family actually convinced this is the best midfield "of all time"?

For mine that would be very naive.

Pushing my own barrow as an Eagles supporter, I respect your mids but for those like Lloydy & best ever, they must have got stage fright in the 2018 GF, cos the current Eagles group are good, nope not that good.

 

[OnceKicked50]

Brisbane, Eagles and Cats all clearly ahead. I'd also consider Sydney's 2012 - 2013 group ahead.

Mumford, Kennedy, Parker, McVeigh, Hannebery, Jack, Goodes. Bolton and O'Keefe played in 2012 and Jetta had his best season.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Pushing my own barrow as an Eagles supporter, I respect your mids but for those like Lloydy & best ever, they must have got stage fright in the 2018 GF, cos the current Eagles group are good, nope not that good.

There's an unwarranted underrating of the current wc mids, they out Collingwooded Collingwood in two of the 3 meetings last year, they also did it to Melb and Rich. Collingwood's current crop is good, very good and would argue that the next meeting it would not necessarily have the same result.

But that's far and away from being the best of all time and is just as unwarranted.

 

[Shaneprice97]

I think most Pies supporters on bigfooty cringe abit at the midfield comparisons to the former greats

 

[Fadge]

Let's wait until they have a four-peat under their belt in 2022, then we can make that assertion.

 

[sprockets]

Matthew Lloyd. Nuff(y) said.

 

[SterlingArcher]

Fantastic midfield, yep.

But I mean look at Geelong 2009:
Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Kelly, Selwood, Ling, Chapman (rotating), Johnson (rotating)

Premiership won, Brownlow won (Ablett won by 8 votes), 4 in the top 20 (Ablett 30 1st, Selwood 16 8th, Bartel 13 =14th, Chapman 12 =20th), those 8 scored 86 votes between them, Norm Smith Medal, AFLCA and AFLPA MVP, and 7 finished in the top 10 of their best & fairest. As good as their defence was, as effective as their forward line, that core won 2 flags and won 65 of 75 games in a 3 year period (87%). I`m going to take that over stats or depth. Sure Ablett did a lot of it but I don't see why that's a negative.

Treloar, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Beams, Adams, Phillips with Crisp, De Goey rotating and Sier, Greenwood as depth and Grundy as the ruck is great but to be the GOAT it actually needs to do something first.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

OF ALL TIME!!

 

[kozi]

To put Collingwood’s mids in the same suburb as that Brisbane midfield is sacrilegious, let alone on the same screenshot to draw comparisons.

Not like Lloyd has any credibility left, but if he did it would all be gone.

 

[Scotland]

What the hell was Lloyd thinking?

I didn't even read the point, just wanted to quote this. He's not the sharpest tool in the rack.

Half kidding, you are right that Geelong midfield is excellent.

Brisbane had:

Voss - 5 x AA, Brownlow
Black - 3 x AA, Brownlow
Akermanis - 4 x AA, Brownlow
Lappin - 4 x AA
Power - 1 x AA

All at their peak. It's a pretty phenomenal quintet. I know he was named there but I wouldn't be including Enright's 900 AAs as he spent most of his career in defence. Selwood also won most of his after Geelong stopped winning flags. He was a gun young player but not at his peak. Geelong's midfield now is pretty amazing, but better on paper as Ablett is past his best. The main thing that lets Brisbane down (didn't matter) is that they never had a star ruckman but when Lappin is your 4th best mid by accolades with 4 x AAs that's pretty cool.

 

[PhatBoy]

I didn't even read the point, just wanted to quote this. He's not the sharpest tool in the rack.

Half kidding, you are right that Geelong midfield is excellent.

Brisbane had:

Voss - 5 x AA, Brownlow
Black - 3 x AA, Brownlow
Akermanis - 4 x AA, Brownlow
Lappin - 4 x AA
Power - 1 x AA

All at their peak. It's a pretty phenomenal quintet. I know he was named there but I wouldn't be including Enright's 900 AAs as he spent most of his career in defence. Selwood also won most of his after Geelong stopped winning flags. He was a gun young player but not at his peak. Geelong's midfield now is pretty amazing, but better on paper as Ablett is past his best. The main thing that lets Brisbane down (didn't matter) is that they never had a star ruckman but when Lappin is your 4th best mid by accolades with 4 x AAs that's pretty cool.

Indeed, but Enright was a mid that year and in the 2008 grand final as well - and was AA the latter year - and you could mount a similar counter to say that Akermanis wasn’t really a ‘midfielder’ as such
I also left Chapman out of that list as he is probably more regarded as a forward than a mid but he did rotate through there regularly.
It was only 2 years until Selwood made his first AA team too.

I think a similar argument could be made for Brisbane as West Coast - their absolute premium top end rolls Royce midfield was the best/equal best. Geelong’s has the depth though imo.

 

[Scotland]

Geelong definitely win the depth race.

Kelly, Chapman, Steve Johnson etc. are all guys that could play in the middle at various stages. Stevie J wasn't a midfielder at all for a number of years then all of a sudden was getting nearly 30 touches a game and maybe kicking 1 goal. I preferred him as a half forward because he was a proper footballer who kicked arsey goals and entertained the crowd.

Geelong's side is also slightly more recent and the trend has been towards more midfield rotations. Our 1992 side for example only had about half a dozen or players in it who you would expect to start centre bounces (+ the ruckmen) in it compared to 2006 which had 10 or 11 which was considered deep at the time.

 

[Shaneprice97]

I didn't even read the point, just wanted to quote this. He's not the sharpest tool in the rack.

Half kidding, you are right that Geelong midfield is excellent.

Brisbane had:

Voss - 5 x AA, Brownlow
Black - 3 x AA, Brownlow
Akermanis - 4 x AA, Brownlow
Lappin - 4 x AA
Power - 1 x AA

All at their peak. It's a pretty phenomenal quintet. I know he was named there but I wouldn't be including Enright's 900 AAs as he spent most of his career in defence. Selwood also won most of his after Geelong stopped winning flags. He was a gun young player but not at his peak. Geelong's midfield now is pretty amazing, but better on paper as Ablett is past his best. The main thing that lets Brisbane down (didn't matter) is that they never had a star ruckman but when Lappin is your 4th best mid by accolades with 4 x AAs that's pretty cool.

I think its worth noting that Lappin was also 4 time All Australian every year Brisbane Lions made the grand final, no other Brisbane midfielder achieved that during the peak so to me thats impressive.

 

[Damon_3388]

Geelong’s starting midfield in the 2007 grand final was Ottens, Ablett, Bartel, Enright, Ling and Joel Corey.
The rotation was James Kelly, Joel Selwood, and Steven King.

Just the 9 All Australians with 27 jerseys between them, 2 Brownlow medallists, 24 flags.

What the hell was Lloyd thinking?

I think Lloyd needed to clarify/qualify his statement better, and use the word "potentially". That makes the comment less sensational and sexy though, and makes for less of a headline.

You need to consider though, that Grundy, Treloar, Adams, De Goey, Phillips, Crisp, Sier, etc. are all just entering or yet to enter their primes as footballers. Beams and Sidebottom are still in their prime, and Pendlebury is probably only just past his.

We've seen the whole career and have the whole list of achievements laid out for the other great midfields, whereas the Pies' group are still writing their story. We'll know the final verdict in another 5-10 years.

 

[OniAu]

If Collingwood plays all of Sidebottom, Pendlebury, Treloar, Beams and Phillips in the midfield it's way too offensive. Which one of them will tackle?

That was our problem round 1, no one to go in and get it or tackle

 

[TeeJay Blue]

What does that even mean that Treloar and Adams depend more on the game?

I think you are being too harsh on Treloar as he is one of the best mids in the game - can win contested footy and hit you on the spread. And the average disposal knock is overstated, for the 2018 season his kicking efficiency was just under 70%

If you chucked either Adams or Treloar in a team like mine (Carlton) for instance, they aren't guaranteed to make the team any better.

Some players can make teams better, but other times these teams can make player look better than they do.

Treloar does have a couple of strengths like his work on the run, but I have watched him over the years and can safely say that he has more often than not lacked the ability to be damaging. Most recent game he was cutting off the momentum and turning the ball over more than his teammates. I'm personally kind of glad blues didn't go as heavy for him compared to Pies and Tigers. But each to their own

 

[Chaisa]

Greatest midfield since last week Typical media hyperbole.

Brisbane, WC and Geelong have them covered just this century.

Hell, it's not even their best starting midfield in the last 10 years.

What is impressive though is that they can easily field 2 AFL standard starting midfields.