Coach Clarkson has left the building

[theiaofseed]

You dont think he is capable of improving a team? If another club picks him up there will not be any measurable improvement?

I'm not sure anymore the past two season don't suggest he can.

 

[HairyO]

Our list is no good and hasn’t been for years. We’ve also had rotten luck with injury and other factors. I don’t see any other coach polishing it to better results, and I don’t think that’s why he’s been moved on.

I believe that the club have issues with how much power Clarko had behind the scenes which has grown significantly in recent years with key football department departures. He’s been left with the keys to the entire joint with too much of a say and influence in certain areas, particularly list profile. Rightly or wrongly, I think the club wanted a circuit breaker, and a better balance off field.

As a match day coach with the right list profile, I’d take Clarko over anyone every day of the week, I don’t think he’s lost that aspect at all. But there are bigger issues at play and I see the value in a fresh start.

The first thing Mitchell did when the agreement was reached that Clarko would coach 2022 was demand more say across the board in 2022.

So we replaced one coach with a massive ego with another coach with a massive ego.

BTW: the biggest risk for Hawthorn is how many are beholden to Kennett. Now how many are beholden to Clarko.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

We lost centre clearances 15-9. Including ones that led to goals at the end when the game was on the line. Can’t tell me that was gameplan.

Only reason we were in with a shot was Essendon were poor

yes but the reason teams play good/bad isn't as linear as you are suggesting

the reason their forward forays and clearance dominance didn't translate into scoreboard dominance was by design

eg. brisbane played bad vs us, but that was also because we played well, thwarted their typical playstyle and made them look bad

same vs Melbourne with the way we structured vs May, Lever and Gawn

and the reverse is true in a few of our other games where we've been decent in the contest but couldn't get our game going fully, like vs Richmond

every time a s**t team plays well doesn't mean the 'better' team automatically played bad. a large part of it is us making them play bad

and good teams typically find it very easy to make us play bad, second-guess our attack off half-back, or just straight up smash us in the midfield. and sometimes we are just downright bad (North, GC, Saint Kilda)

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Lyon calling first and second year players opinions "irrelevant" shows why he has never won a flag and leaves clubs in the doldrums

Doesnt respect young people

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Our list is no good and hasn’t been for years. We’ve also had rotten luck with injury and other factors. I don’t see any other coach polishing it to better results, and I don’t think that’s why he’s been moved on.

I believe that the club have issues with how much power Clarko had behind the scenes which has grown significantly in recent years with key football department departures. He’s been left with the keys to the entire joint with too much of a say and influence in certain areas, particularly list profile. Rightly or wrongly, I think the club wanted a circuit breaker, and a better balance off field.

As a match day coach with the right list profile, I’d take Clarko over anyone every day of the week, I don’t think he’s lost that aspect at all. But there are bigger issues at play and I see the value in a fresh start.

I reckon his coaching has been on the nose for quite a while. Hasn't reinvented himself to fit this group.

It is definitely part of the reason he hasn't been renewed along with list management (Graeme Wright being let go).

 

[TylerDurden]

Lyon calling first and second year players opinions "irrelevant" shows why he has never won a flag and leaves clubs in the doldrums

Doesnt respect young people

No doubt. What a tool.

 

[MrPremiership]

Lyon calling first and second year players opinions "irrelevant" shows why he has never won a flag and leaves clubs in the doldrums

Doesnt respect young people

I like Ross, but gee that was a horrible insight into what he thinks about being a leader

 

[Steven Tyler]

You dont think he is capable of improving a team? If another club picks him up there will not be any measurable improvement?

If we are to believe the theory that he has too much say in list management then going off the last 4 years I’d say he probably wouldn’t be able to get us up the ladder, no

If he goes to Carlton, with their list already in place I’d say he’d have them in the 8 comfortably

 

[Stottzy]

Our list is no good and hasn’t been for years. We’ve also had rotten luck with injury and other factors. I don’t see any other coach polishing it to better results, and I don’t think that’s why he’s been moved on.

I believe that the club have issues with how much power Clarko had behind the scenes which has grown significantly in recent years with key football department departures. He’s been left with the keys to the entire joint with too much of a say and influence in certain areas, particularly list profile. Rightly or wrongly, I think the club wanted a circuit breaker, and a better balance off field.

As a match day coach with the right list profile, I’d take Clarko over anyone every day of the week, I don’t think he’s lost that aspect at all. But there are bigger issues at play and I see the value in a fresh start.

Shows why Chris Fagan was a big loss. Was able to handle Clarko well and pull him up when out of line. Newbold as well.

 

[HairyO]

If we are to believe the theory that he has too much say in list management then going off the last 4 years I’d say he probably wouldn’t be able to get us up the ladder, no

If he goes to Carlton, with their list already in place I’d say he’d have them in the 8 comfortably

So if he goes to North Melbourne Sam has Hawthorn winning finals first ?

 

[deanc]

Shows why Chris Fagan was a big loss. Was able to handle Clarko well and pull him up when out of line. Newbold as well.

So true and by extension I'll suggest the team of; Newbold-Clarkson-Fagan-Russell-Wright was like the planets in alignment and something that may rarely be replicated in the future...
Throw in a few handy assistant coaches and the leadership abilities of Mitchell and Hodge and we really should of won 5 flags in-a-row...!

 

[BobHawk]

So true and by extension I'll suggest the team of; Newbold-Clarkson-Fagan-Russell-Wright was like the planets in alignment and something that may rarely be replicated in the future...
Throw in a few handy assistant coaches and the leadership abilities of Mitchell and Hodge and we really should of won 5 flags in-a-row..

Would not have won the three premierships 2013 - 2015 without Brian Lake. Watching the ball sail over our defenders heads until he arrived was excruciating. Freed up Josh Gibson too. He won 2 Peter Crimmins medals.

 

[H00t]

yes but the reason teams play good/bad isn't as linear as you are suggesting

the reason their forward forays and clearance dominance didn't translate into scoreboard dominance was by design

eg. brisbane played bad vs us, but that was also because we played well, thwarted their typical playstyle and made them look bad

same vs Melbourne with the way we structured vs May, Lever and Gawn

and the reverse is true in a few of our other games where we've been decent in the contest but couldn't get our game going fully, like vs Richmond

every time a sh*t team plays well doesn't mean the 'better' team automatically played bad. a large part of it is us making them play bad

and good teams typically find it very easy to make us play bad, second-guess our attack off half-back, or just straight up smash us in the midfield. and sometimes we are just downright bad (North, GC, Saint Kilda)

We definitely attempted to make it hard for the opposition. And to Clarko’s credit we were able to stop their game.

But in all those games we were able to stop their game because those top teams played poorly enough that we were able to stop their game. They play to their capabilities and they win. At their best those teams overcome what we try to do.

It’s no different than when we dropped games back in 2013-2015. If we were a bit off, teams could play well and beat us. But if we were on, we win.

 

[Billyc]

Lyon calling first and second year players opinions "irrelevant" shows why he has never won a flag and leaves clubs in the doldrums

Doesnt respect young people

So that caused the ball to bounce at right angles in 2010 and the goal umpire to call Tom Hawkins’ behind a goal in 2009?

I don’t agree with Lyon’s opinion on this one but don’t buy into rubbishing his coaching career. He was bloody unlucky.

 

[CHUBBSS]

Shows why Chris Fagan was a big loss. Was able to handle Clarko well and pull him up when out of line. Newbold as well.

Fagan cannot be under stated was such an important piece in our flags, Clarko and Fagan made a formidable team.

Based on everything going on at both clubs I actually think they work better as a team - two people that when you get them on the same team become quality operators

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

We definitely attempted to make it hard for the opposition. And to Clarko’s credit we were able to stop their game.

But in all those games we were able to stop their game because those top teams played poorly enough that we were able to stop their game. They play to their capabilities and they win. At their best those teams overcome what we try to do.

It’s no different than when we dropped games back in 2013-2015. If we were a bit off, teams could play well and beat us. But if we were on, we win.

of course I guess my point is the skill diff in the comp isn't actually as huge as it seems

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Would not have won the three premierships 2013 - 2015 without Brian Lake. Watching the ball sail over our defenders heads until he arrived was excruciating. Freed up Josh Gibson too. He won 2 Peter Crimmins medals.

I often refer to him as my favourite Hawk ever which is ridiculous but aligns with your post which highlights just how crucial he was. Has to be our best recruit ever in terms of season played and flags.

 

[burton5]

We've given most people a shot.

There are only 3 on the list that haven't debuted. Not bad for a list of 46

Saunders, Seamus, Pepper, Callow, Downie (wasn’t proper) so 5

 

[Rushed_Behind]

Well known that Ross Lyon didn't talk to any of the players on the list that weren't in the seniors so his comments aren't surprising at all.

During one review meeting with a player who was about to get delisted he let the football manager take the interview. Ross didn't say a word and then half way through the interview just got up and walked out...

What an ass

 

[SA HAWK]

If we are to believe the theory that he has too much say in list management then going off the last 4 years I’d say he probably wouldn’t be able to get us up the ladder, no

If he goes to Carlton, with their list already in place I’d say he’d have them in the 8 comfortably

A new club where he is not too close to the players i absolutely think he would be successful.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

So if he goes to North Melbourne Sam has Hawthorn winning finals first ?

If you can’t see how far north are into their rebuild then there is no point anyone continuing this conversation.

 

[almuz]

What a cluster f this continues to become. Probably not even halfway to finished either

The tiff in the player's meeting is good and bad. Good that they all obviously care and that the younger guys had the courage to speak up.

Bad that it got leaked and bad that it blew up the way it did by the sounds of it.

I suppose if there is all this pent up frustration and anger around the club better to rip the bandaid off now while we at the bottom of the equalisation cycle.

One thing I don’t like about the young guys is their young bulls huddle thing they do pregame.

 

[natio]

Love how people on here are just believing that Clarko was the main source of leaks. Based on Derm's Facebook post?! Hahaha. I love Derm but he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. If you believe that I've got a bridge to sell ya.

Look at Caro's opinion on clarkos and his motivations and how that changed over the saga. She believes he fully wanted to be there. In response to Kane saying Clarko was playing everyone and being dishonest she said bullshit.

We are dealing with Jeff here. The same guy who, when premier, leaked a bullshit story that all taxis were going to be painted pink to divert attention from some other damning political news and clog up talkback radio with calls from irate cabbies.

 

[The Chad and I]

Well known that Ross Lyon didn't talk to any of the players on the list that weren't in the seniors so his comments aren't surprising at all.

During one review meeting with a player who was about to get delisted he let the football manager take the interview. Ross didn't say a word and then half way through the interview just got up and walked out...

the worst managers are those who play "insiders/outsiders".
They are ******* sociopaths.
No wonder Lyon hasn't had success developing younger players.
Top footy brain and senior coach, but he's a finisher, not a builder.

 

[Pessimistic]

the worst managers are those who play "insiders/outsiders".
They are ******* sociopaths.
No wonder Lyon hasn't had success developing younger players.
Top footy brain and senior coach, but he's a finisher, not a builder.

I can’t work out how anyone can cheerfully listen to him, such a whiney voice