Expansion National reserves competition in 2025. Are you in favour?

[iameviljez]

Kills the VFL. That's the main one.

The VFL is already stone cold dead.

With all due respect to clubs like Port Melbourne, the old VFA is gone. It's an empty shell that is the AFL reserves comp in all but name.

It's the WAFL and SANFL that are still worth something.

 

[saintal]

Good. Crows reserves in the sanfl just isn’t working. The restrictions on top up players is horrendous - hampers development of the rest of the squad.

Preliminary finalists the past 2 seasons on the back of 25 wins from 36 minor round games, was the model working then? Both AFL clubs carrying a few injuries this season, hence their reserves form drops off. Surprise surprise. The supposed quality of the 'top ups' and their impact is overblown, and a convenient reason for wanting to move elsewhere.

I'm all for the AFL clubs walking from the SANFL as they're adding very little benefit currently.

 

[loki04]

1000% yes.
Should of happened years ago.

 

[loki04]

The 1st question which comes to mind is how are they going to pay for it?

It's going to be very expensive flying teams around the country and might be cost prohibitive.

Mate they make billions from TV revenue and and sponsors, content, gates etc.

Easily doable.

Televise it, market it and eventually crowds will become interested as it's a proper reserves comp vs other AFL reserves.

Would be interesting to see who's youth/rookies are developing well.

 

[boncer34]

1. Kills the VFL. That's the main one.
2. Increases travel costs of poorer clubs for the most part. There's a reason it was abandoned 25 years ago.
3. People don't care about reserves footy by and large

Why do you think it isn't?

The AFL foots the bill for the VFL clubs now. And the AFL clubs to I thought.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Maybe not on a large scale, but I'd also argue that those that rock up to watch Richmond play in the VFL would be just as if not more likely to watch us play in a reserves competition. I'd certainly have more interest in it than playing some random state league team I don't care about. At least watching our reserves I get a truer sense of our list against the actual league we compete in and other teams.

None of that really makes sense but anyway, the crowds will be the same as they are for the VFL - bugger all.

As for those getting excited about double headers… perhaps interstate (not that they happen now, when they could)… but it’s certainly not happening in Melbourne. The G and Marvel host 40-50 games per year each in a delicate game of turf management. They’re not doubling that.

 

[Freomaniac]

The WAFL has bent over backwards for the Eagles. Stop making crap up,
They have had players spread across all clubs abd won 3 national flags in that period.
Then they have had 3 alignments that didn’t work. Common denominator was the WCE. Host club didn’t work either for them. Then now a stand alone club hasn’t worked either.
Common denominator through it all has been the WCE.
They have blamed the WAFL at every point but never once looked within and realised they are themselves the issue.

You have no idea what Andrew Demetriou wanted.

He wanted the death of he SANFL and WAFL and TFL and NTFL.

Andrew Demetriou either wanted them either irrelevant or under the AFL control or flat out dead. Take your pick

 

[eth-dog]

The AFL foots the bill for the VFL clubs now. And the AFL clubs to I thought.

Not completely.

 

[kickazz]

If they do bring it in, and if the AFL are not interested in using the games as curtain raisers, could they schedule the games to be:

a) aligned with the AFL fixture (as in same opponents)
b) to be AFTER the AFL fixture.


This would then allow us to expand the available subs in an AFL game - perhaps to include all three emergencies - without having players miss an entire week of footy because of it.

 

[boncer34]

Not completely.

It's like 95% Eth. The other bit they pay from their own funds which for AFL clubs....... come from the AFL.

 

[Rickee]

The VFL is already stone cold dead.

With all due respect to clubs like Port Melbourne, the old VFA is gone. It's an empty shell that is the AFL reserves comp in all but name.

It's the WAFL and SANFL that are still worth something.

This is true, AFL Victoria have slowly strangled the VFL to death and the addition of the four reserves sides from Qld and NSW was the straw that broke the camels' back.

However, in the event of a national reserves competition, I can see the VFL being restructured to include the current stand alone clubs, an independant Sandringham, Box Hill Mustangs and Casey Scorpions.

That's 9 teams, which is plenty to start off with, and maybe if it goes well a few more sides might jump on board, North Ballarat were interested in re-joining up until a few years ago, and several old VFA sides are still up and about.

The thing AFL Victoria cannot allow to happen is the end of the VFL all together, it leaves a void at the top of the state leagues pyramid and you also have 6 and a half current stand alone clubs that you are responsible for that will have no league to play in.

 

[Rickee]

If they do bring it in, and if the AFL are not interested in using the games as curtain raisers, could they schedule the games to be:

a) aligned with the AFL fixture (as in same opponents)
b) to be AFTER the AFL fixture.


This would then allow us to expand the available subs in an AFL game - perhaps to include all three emergencies - without having players miss an entire week of footy because of it.

I have a feeling that it will be a mix of all of those depending on the fixture, ground availability, etc.

The MCG, Kardinia Park, Adelaide Oval, etc could host reserves before a Saturday night game for example, but Marvel might be out all together, especially before a Thursday or Friday night game.

 

[JohnZ]

This is true, AFL Victoria have slowly strangled the VFL to death and the addition of the four reserves sides from Qld and NSW was the straw that broke the camels' back.

However, in the event of a national reserves competition, I can see the VFL being restructured to include the current stand alone clubs, an independant Sandringham, Box Hill Mustangs and Casey Scorpions.

That's 9 teams, which is plenty to start off with, and maybe if it goes well a few more sides might jump on board, North Ballarat were interested in re-joining up until a few years ago, and several old VFA sides are still up and about.

The thing AFL Victoria cannot allow to happen is the end of the VFL all together, it leaves a void at the top of the state leagues pyramid and you also have 6 and a half current stand alone clubs that you are responsible for that will have no league to play in.

This. 100%. There’s enough standalone teams to jumpstart a new era of VFL

As for the AFL reserves, they can share the plane with the seniors and play before. Increase the list size to 55ish to cover two games worth plus injury. Reserves to focus on development of youth

 

[iameviljez]

This. 100%. There’s enough standalone teams to jumpstart a new era of VFL

As for the AFL reserves, they can share the plane with the seniors and play before. Increase the list size to 55ish to cover two games worth plus injury. Reserves to focus on development of youth

I can’t see this happening because it would be really detrimental to the young players outside the VFL team.

One of the best things for talented 18 year olds is to play against grown men. Clubs won’t recruit many, if any, veterans outside the senior team on their actual list of 55 - why would they?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

This. 100%. There’s enough standalone teams to jumpstart a new era of VFL

As for the AFL reserves, they can share the plane with the seniors and play before. Increase the list size to 55ish to cover two games worth plus injury. Reserves to focus on development of youth

Honestly

 

[sup3rfish]

Yes i reckon its a great idea. Key points why:
1- Your developing players to play your game plan and in positions you want
2- Align the fixtures and make all games double headers (great viewing for all)
3- increases list sizes giving more potential players opportunity to be around the highest level
4- even playing field across the league
5- will actually help state / lower leagues as they will know there squads more consistently and can recruit accordingly

 

[Walshawk]

This is true, AFL Victoria have slowly strangled the VFL to death and the addition of the four reserves sides from Qld and NSW was the straw that broke the camels' back.

However, in the event of a national reserves competition, I can see the VFL being restructured to include the current stand alone clubs, an independant Sandringham, Box Hill Mustangs and Casey Scorpions.

That's 9 teams, which is plenty to start off with, and maybe if it goes well a few more sides might jump on board, North Ballarat were interested in re-joining up until a few years ago, and several old VFA sides are still up and about.

The thing AFL Victoria cannot allow to happen is the end of the VFL all together, it leaves a void at the top of the state leagues pyramid and you also have 6 and a half current stand alone clubs that you are responsible for that will have no league to play in.

There is no Mustangs nor Scorpions. Box Hill and Casey have been run by their AFL partners for decades. There wouldn’t be a single supporter left. No chance of forming clubs out of that.

Some of the VFL stand alone clubs are less popular and financial that the big suburban clubs like Vermont. Players only play for them due to the exposure and experience of playing against AFL listed players in a second tier comp. Once it becomes the third tier, most players will go back to suburban footy. A ‘new VFA’ would fold after one season.

The best chance for the old VFA clubs to survive in some form is to join suburban leagues. But the problem there is they would need reserves and U19s, which most of them don’t have. Perhaps they could merge with a suburban club. Likely that some would fold. Sad, but inevitable.

 

[iameviljez]

Hahaha - this didn't happen. You are now making a goose of yourself.

VFL is about a third AFL AFL-listed players, all of whom are better than the best WAFL and SANFL-listed players -or they would be AFL-listed.

There are 13 AFL-affiliated VFL teams. AFL lists are approx 44-45 players, depending on a few rules. Assuming all AFL players are fit, the second their comp has 22 players available. That's 286 AFL list standard players playing in the VFL across 16 teams, an average of 17.875 players per team. This doesn't take into account the obvious fact that players who are fringe AFL will head to the VFL to get noticed because it is the best league outside of the AFL, so in reality, it probably has about 500 of the best 600 hundred players in the country not playing AFL - but I'll just ignore that bit to try and save you some dignity.

Compare that to the WAFL - 10 team, 2 AFL reserve teams, total 44 AFL listed players running around in the entire WAFL comp. That's 4.4 AFL listed players per team.

Are you seriously going to post on here that your mate's son says that a team with 4.4 AFL listed players is a better standard than a team with 17.85??

Do you have the courage to name him the kid you are pretending to quote? Or will you hide now like a coward - or is it time just to admit you just caught out making s**t up.

What an absolute imbecile you are thinking you could bullshit your way through this one. Delete your account - you're cooked, your bullshit got caught out.

Haha. I cant believe you tied that.

Being an AFL listed player doesn’t mean you are better than the VFL players.

It means you might one day become better. There is a huge difference

 

[iameviljez]

This is true, AFL Victoria have slowly strangled the VFL to death and the addition of the four reserves sides from Qld and NSW was the straw that broke the camels' back.

However, in the event of a national reserves competition, I can see the VFL being restructured to include the current stand alone clubs, an independant Sandringham, Box Hill Mustangs and Casey Scorpions.

That's 9 teams, which is plenty to start off with, and maybe if it goes well a few more sides might jump on board, North Ballarat were interested in re-joining up until a few years ago, and several old VFA sides are still up and about.

The thing AFL Victoria cannot allow to happen is the end of the VFL all together, it leaves a void at the top of the state leagues pyramid and you also have 6 and a half current stand alone clubs that you are responsible for that will have no league to play in.

I disagree with your assessment that the AFL killed it.

Lack of interest killed it. As soon as the VFL started playing on Sunday, she was dead as a doorknob. They just didn’t know it yet.

 

[JohnZ]

I can’t see this happening because it would be really detrimental to the young players outside the VFL team.

One of the best things for talented 18 year olds is to play against grown men. Clubs won’t recruit many, if any, veterans outside the senior team on their actual list of 55 - why would they?

Its not Port Melbournes responsibility to put up grown men for AFL listed players to develop against. They want to play for VFL flags. The two types of clubs have different objectives and it ruins the gamr

 

[Breretonisahood]

I disagree with your assessment that the AFL killed it.

Lack of interest killed it. As soon as the VFL started playing on Sunday, she was dead as a doorknob. They just didn’t know it yet.

Yep, the VFA glory days were when the VFL only played Saturday and Sunday was for the VFA. Those days are gone. I just can’t see how the independent VFL clubs can maintain a competition if the national AFL reserves set up. Several clubs will fold. A Hawthornless Box Hill for example would have less supporters than neighbouring Balwyn, Donny and Blackburn. What will become of Casey? Revert to Springvale which hasn’t been a club for decades? Southport fly to Vic every 2nd weekend? I think not.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

People talking about how the VFA died, yet seem to forget the AFL Reserves also died.

 

[iameviljez]

People talking about how the VFA died, yet seem to forget the AFL Reserves also died.

The VFA just became the de facto reserves.

The main issue we seem to have is that there are 14 clubs up and down the eastern seaboard, and if they all play in one comp, they swallow the thing whole.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The VFA just became the de facto reserves.

The main issue we seem to have is that there are 14 clubs up and down the eastern seaboard, and if they all play in one comp, they swallow the thing whole.

The VFA (VFL) and the Reserves (VSFL) merged into one league. There was of course pain associated but all in all it was actually the logical move and worked very well for many years.

• Victoria actually does need a state league, as it provides undrafted players from by far the biggest football nursery in Australia to go to a truly second-tier competition if they wish to continue to pursue an AFL future.
• If AFL clubs wanted their own reserves team, they could.
• If VFL clubs wanted to remain independent and play in the top state league, they could. Some of these clubs are up to 150 years old with state league history, it's pretty hard to just toss them.
• If AFL clubs couldn't afford their own reserves or VFL clubs couldn't afford to remain independent, they could align to field one team in the VFL - and many did.

Of course it's compromised but in terms of being the best option and ticking every box, it's by far the best solution and has worked well.

The issue which has led to all this bullshit is actually totally irrelevant to Victoria - it's a case of leagues in other states apparently not being suitable for their AFL reserves. It's never stopped Brisbane, Sydney, Adelaide, Port or West Coast from being very, very good and winning AFL flags, but we're told it's the case nonetheless.

Instead of doing the hard yards and fixing or improving those leagues, apparently we have to burn down what is actually a very good structure in Victoria to allow the interstate clubs to have a Reserves league. They've already let the four northern clubs in, now the western clubs want in too, apparently.

The northern state leagues should be on a sharp improvement curve and becoming better for AFL reserves. The academies are starting to bear fruit which will supply high quality non-drafted players, and the AFL could provide incentives for southern-state league footballers to relocate for a season or more to boost it further. It'd be relatively cheap and effective.

The SANFL and WAFL just need to sort their s**t out.

People will notice that little has been heard from Victorian clubs on this proposal. None of them want to ruin a perfectly good VFL for this harebrained stuff, just to appease a couple of clubs who can't get their s**t together.

In the spirit of compromise, if the interstate clubs are intent on leaving their state leagues (I don't think they should), I have no idea why it should wreck the VFL. Just have the Reserves league you apparently need so desperately. West Coast, Freo, Adelaide, Port Adelaide, GWS, Sydney, Brisbane and Gold Coast - probably with Southport and Tasmania added - is a perfectly effective Reserves league (say, "AFL2") for what is apparently required. The VFL can continue to do their thing.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The VFA (VFL) and the Reserves (VSFL) merged into one league. There was of course pain associated but all in all it was actually the logical move and worked very well for many years.

• Victoria actually does need a state league, as it provides undrafted players from by far the biggest football nursery in Australia to go to a truly second-tier competition if they wish to continue to pursue an AFL future.
• If AFL clubs wanted their own reserves team, they could.
• If VFL clubs wanted to remain independent and play in the top state league, they could. Some of these clubs are up to 150 years old with state league history, it's pretty hard to just toss them.
• If AFL clubs couldn't afford their own reserves or VFL clubs couldn't afford to remain independent, they could align to field one team in the VFL - and many did.

Of course it's compromised but in terms of being the best option and ticking every box, it's by far the best solution and has worked well.

The issue which has led to all this bullshit is actually totally irrelevant to Victoria - it's a case of leagues in other states apparently not being suitable for their AFL reserves. It's never stopped Brisbane, Sydney, Adelaide, Port or West Coast from being very, very good and winning AFL flags, but we're told it's the case nonetheless.

Instead of doing the hard yards and fixing or improving those leagues, apparently we have to burn down what is actually a very good structure in Victoria to allow the interstate clubs to have a Reserves league. They've already let the four northern clubs in, now the western clubs want in too, apparently.

The northern state leagues should be on a sharp improvement curve and becoming better for AFL reserves. The academies are starting to bear fruit which will supply high quality non-drafted players, and the AFL could provide incentives for southern-state league footballers to relocate for a season or more to boost it further. It'd be relatively cheap and effective.

The SANFL and WAFL just need to sort their s**t out.

People will notice that little has been heard from Victorian clubs on this proposal. None of them want to ruin a perfectly good VFL for this harebrained stuff, just to appease a couple of clubs who can't get their s**t together.

In the spirit of compromise, if the interstate clubs are intent on leaving their state leagues (I don't think they should), I have no idea why it should wreck the VFL. Just have the Reserves league you apparently need so desperately. West Coast, Freo, Adelaide, Port Adelaide, GWS, Sydney, Brisbane and Gold Coast - probably with Southport and Tasmania added - is a perfectly effective Reserves league (say, "AFL2") for what is apparently required. The VFL can continue to do their thing.

There is nothing for the WAFL to sort out, they have bent over backwards for the Eagles and nothing is good enough.