List Mgmt. Draftee, NGA and Father/Son Discussion - 2025

[Barrybran]

Cumming probably projects around the GC pick 7 at this stage and would probably be the play or trading with RICH or ESS if the want CDT bad we could get 1 of their picks 3/4 or 5/6 and get Cumming.

There's some love for him on the Richmond board. If we take Sharp and Duursma, I don't see him getting past pick 4. Sure, they took Lalor last year but imagine being able to swap those two between mid and forward or run them together through the midfield.

 

[eaglevision]

Fair enough; just wondering if you had any particular reason to think that, since nothing we've heard (yet) indicates Cumming at 2 is much chance.

Zero coming out of the club. Just based on recent history and McQualter’s comments. Bit concerned the club undervalues ground ball winners and just think the ball is going to magically find its way into the hands of excellent runners on the outside.

 

[bzparkes]

I feel like people criticising Duursma haven't watched him much, outside of some highlights.

Bloke gets up and down the ground, takes intercept marks, takes marks in the forward line, can win contested ball, can run and carry, etc.

Yeah, he's skinny, which seems to make people think he's a bit soft, but he's very capable of having a big impact on games, has looked good at VFL level and doesn't shirk contact.

He'll be a jet once he puts on some size.

 

[twce13]

I feel like people criticising Duursma haven't watched him much, outside of some highlights.

Bloke gets up and down the ground, takes intercept marks, takes marks in the forward line, can win contested ball, can run and carry, etc.

Yeah, he's skinny, which seems to make people think he's a bit soft, but he's very capable of having a big impact on games, has looked good at VFL level and doesn't shirk contact.

He'll be a jet once he puts on some size.

yeah if he puts it together will be a weapon.
id be surprised if wce dont take him at 1.

pick 2 is harder to predict. im in camp sharp, but half expecting them to do something else.

 

[noobermensch]

The stats are solid but modest for Grlj in this game, but this was an impressive performance. Some sequences of play were the type of thing that only Grlj is capable of among this pool of draftees, dodging and weaving through traffic or bursting through with pace. His disposal was tidy and creative.

Unfortunately we lost the first 8 mins of the game due to technical difficulties. Lets hope we didn’t miss any all time great Grlj highlights.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Less written off, more not seeing it yet. I know it can be done. Hugh McCluggage is an example of a very good outside player taken early in the draft, who has become a capable inside mid. But it has taken him a very long time to get to that point.

As far as line breaking defenders go, I think Ginbey can play that role eventually. Sure, he's done an amazing job as a lock down defender this year but Hough was doing that at a very high level before him. McCarthy could move up a line as well. I just don't see Duursma as a point of difference yet to other options on the table.

In the four state games he played he was ranked for Vic Metro in contested possessions as

v Vic Metro - 3rd (9 contested. two had 10)
v South Australia - 3rd (9 contested. two had 12)
V WA - 2nd (11 contested, one had 13)

I think the idea he can't move inside is misplaced.

 

[Barrybran]

In the four state games he played he was ranked for Vic Metro in contested possessions as

v Vic Metro - 3rd (9 contested. two had 10)
v South Australia - 3rd (9 contested. two had 12)
V WA - 2nd (11 contested, one had 13)

I think the idea he can't move inside is misplaced.

I would like to see that against adults before we spend pick 1 or 2 on him

 

[twce13]

The stats are solid but modest for Grlj in this game, but this was an impressive performance. Some sequences of play were the type of thing that only Grlj is capable of among this pool of draftees, dodging and weaving through traffic or bursting through with pace. His disposal was tidy and creative.

Unfortunately we lost the first 8 mins of the game due to technical difficulties. Lets hope we didn’t miss any all time great Grlj highlights.

he looks good. his movement in congestion and general evasiveness is something to behold.

if we can get our hands on another pick in the top 10 i'd be pretty keen.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I would like to see that against adults before we spend pick 1 or 2 on him

Ok, and Cummings contested stats against men are?

 

[bzparkes]

I would like to see that against adults before we spend pick 1 or 2 on him

He was played as an outside receiver/winger in his 2 VFL games. Most draftees won't be playing roles where they have to fight for a lot of contested ball in the VFL.

 

[Big_Birdy]

Ok, and Cummings contested stats against men are?

Not exactly sure how many contested, but reckon there may have been a few when he got 21, 3.1, 5 tackles and 5 clearances in his SANFL league debut.

 

[Barrybran]

Ok, and Cummings contested stats against men are?

Irrelevant

I'm not looking at box scores. I'm looking at what these kids do. For midfielders, I want to see them going after the ball. For KPP's, I want to see them getting their hands to the ball. For runners, I want to see them in traffic.

As I've said multiple times, Duursma looks like he will be a very good AFL player. His VFL appearances were very good. But I need to see more from him before I can confidently say that he's our guy.

 

[Donkers]

What Duursma does well, is excel in facets of the game that we are, collectively short on as a skillset.

As I have stated previously on here, he will be real outside weapon and have serious hurt factor, when he is being feed by a dominant midfield.
Obviously he will rely on others to win it at the coal face and then feed it out to him, to do his stuff.

Now thats where it gets interesting for us, as we clearly don't have the midfield to adequately benefit from his skillset.
However he has elements to his game that put him in rare company, that are match winning traits, that few players have.

I think Mini is going to really be attracted to the skillset that he offers and will be pushing for us drafting him, as Duursma has the skillset to fit into Mini's game plan.

I think he is just too good a talent to pass up on and I say that knowing full well, that he will becoming to a list, that at this point in time, is bereft of the type of players that he will need around him to maximise his talent.

Thats the challenge for our recruiters in the next three years, to get the coal face ball winning mids onto our list and performing so that:

1. Harley has some help on the inside so he doesn't have to be "The Lone Ranger".
2. In conjunction with the Coaching staff find and develop players and a game plan to improve our clearance woes.
3. With inside grunt get to best utalise and assist Duursma's talents.


That leads to the next point, and its a critical one, how well and quickly are we able to find the contested winning players needed to turn our plight around.

Such players available in this draft, that will be in our pick range ( with current picks OR what they may turn into ) are:

Sharp
Cumming
Greeves

We need to some how pick up at least one of this trio ( two would be nice - also I get we wouldnt take both Sharp and Greeves - to similar in both strengths and weaknesses - acknowledged ) , also nab ourselves a B grader midfielder via the trade period.

If we could turn picks 1&2 somehow into; Duursma, Sharp and Cumming that would IMO be a really good draft.

The good news is that ( assuming Harley stays ), we have a three year window, to get the players that we desperately need into our system, to start moving up the ladder and generating some positivity around becoming a team that has a good chance of contending.

If we create a winning culture and get some on field success, then the players will stay as nothing breeds success like success.

Long ramble but the more I think about it, the more I see us calling Duursma's name out on draft night.

To me there is one big hiccup and variable in Duursma I haven't mentioned. Just how confident does the club think it is of acquiring Warner in 2 years time. If they are highly confident then to me Duursma is just a bit too much of the same first receiver type on the list as I think Hewett is better as a stoppage midfielder / first receiver than inside. Duursma almost certainly better ovehead, but Warner if needed is highly likely to always be better at the coalface.

I really rate Maric and think he's going to be a great long term wing option for us. If the inside is strong enough having the ability to run Warner as a HHF or wing who takes some centre square stoppages is worth more to us than Duursma in a list build strategy. It would be a big risk.

I am of the opinion unless an offer too good to pass up happens then WCE will draft Duursma. Is a centre square of Sharp, Reid and the rotation of Hewett, Cumming and potentially Warner enough. The right pick swap could land us Cochrane next year as well. Cochrane to me is the best talent since Harley.

What is the offer that becomes to good to be true. Is it Pick 1 and Hawks first for 3 or 4 and Richmonds F1?

Is it Pick 1 & 19 for 5& future first from Essendon.

Where do we draw as supporters draw the line. Where do the only 2 clubs who we would potentially be interested in their picks draw the line.

 

[Mattman93]

Zero coming out of the club. Just based on recent history and McQualter’s comments. Bit concerned the club undervalues ground ball winners and just think the ball is going to magically find its way into the hands of excellent runners on the outside.

I can see both sides on the Sharp question. I'd be a fan of the bold call on Cumming and wouldn't hate him and Duursma tbh.

Agree on ground ball winners; hell I've been pleading for it for years now. It's also why Grlj has long been the player I'd most like WCE to land. Contest and ground ball is about stoppage sense and agility -- the ability to get to the ball first and then effectively transition from contest to clear possession. He excels at it, and if anyone pays attention they'll see he plays a genuine inside game.

Unfortunately it's clear he hasn't shown quite enough this season to go right at the top; meanwhile I maintain someone will jump from around pick 5 or so.

 

[plays tall 1]

I think Grlj would have a lot of appeal for McQualter given the system he wants the team to play. Looks to have the confidence and inclination to carry the ball at every opportunity.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Pick 1 Duursma
Pick 2 - Sharp

I think i'd prefer if these two were ass about.

Sharp seems like the vanilla no stress customer who just takes everything in his stride and has moved from one leadership role to the next since junior football with little fanfair.

Something tells me he'd handle the #1 draft pick tag a little better than "He's soft! He's soft!" VFL mummys boy Thrillem.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

They are the two most athletic mids in the top bracket.

I’m worried we’ll pass on Sharp because of his pace.

If he is winning 400s and top 3 for 100/200.in aths, he isn't slow. He might not have that 20m sprint speed.....but

If you have a look at the last 10yrs of the AFL combine results and the 20m sprint. Only 2-3 top 10s of each year play/played regular AFL football. A lot of the names didn't even get drafted.

 

[RanaNaved]

Reckon Grlj goes to the Tigers or Essendon, looks elite

 

[RanaNaved]

I can see both sides on the Sharp question. I'd be a fan of the bold call on Cumming and wouldn't hate him and Duursma tbh.

Agree on ground ball winners; hell I've been pleading for it for years now. It's also why Grlj has long been the player I'd most like WCE to land. Contest and ground ball is about stoppage sense and agility -- the ability to get to the ball first and then effectively transition from contest to clear possession. He excels at it, and if anyone pays attention they'll see he plays a genuine inside game.

Unfortunately it's clear he hasn't shown quite enough this season to go right at the top; meanwhile I maintain someone will jump from around pick 5 or so.

Yeah Grlj has those boxer like fast feet around stoppages. Fast twitch af. I doubt he gets to our 3rd pick

 

[Wooshaaaa]

Reckon Grlj goes to the Tigers or Essendon, looks elite

Blues

 

[bzparkes]

To me there is one big hiccup and variable in Duursma I haven't mentioned. Just how confident does the club think it is of acquiring Warner in 2 years time. If they are highly confident then to me Duursma is just a bit too much of the same first receiver type on the list as I think Hewett is better as a stoppage midfielder / first receiver than inside. Duursma almost certainly better ovehead, but Warner if needed is highly likely to always be better at the coalface.

I really rate Maric and think he's going to be a great long term wing option for us. If the inside is strong enough having the ability to run Warner as a HHF or wing who takes some centre square stoppages is worth more to us than Duursma in a list build strategy. It would be a big risk.

I am of the opinion unless an offer too good to pass up happens then WCE will draft Duursma. Is a centre square of Sharp, Reid and the rotation of Hewett, Cumming and potentially Warner enough. The right pick swap could land us Cochrane next year as well. Cochrane to me is the best talent since Harley.

What is the offer that becomes to good to be true. Is it Pick 1 and Hawks first for 3 or 4 and Richmonds F1?

Is it Pick 1 & 19 for 5& future first from Essendon.

Where do we draw as supporters draw the line. Where do the only 2 clubs who we would potentially be interested in their picks draw the line.

You can't realistically gamble with things falling your way that far ahead.

What if we did that trade for next season and missed out on Cochrane?

Then Warner doesn't want to come home, or opts for Freo?

Duursma's not an 'outside' player like people seem to keep banging on about. He's more balanced, although he'll certainly start on the outside in AFL until he puts on more size.

If he's the standout player of the draft come November, you don't try to outsmart yourself, you just pick him.

 

[Jukes]

I get the difference in opinion and perspective on potential draftees but surely we can’t use the “we don’t need a player like him” as an argument. Any of the top 15 touted picks will 100% be needed with where we are at (except an out and out key forward). Heck even if CDT ended up a quality half forward or forward pocket long term, it would be a win for us.

 

[Monocle]

To me there is one big hiccup and variable in Duursma I haven't mentioned. Just how confident does the club think it is of acquiring Warner in 2 years time. If they are highly confident then to me Duursma is just a bit too much of the same first receiver type on the list as I think Hewett is better as a stoppage midfielder / first receiver than inside. Duursma almost certainly better ovehead, but Warner if needed is highly likely to always be better at the coalface.

But thats the thing, we cant spend too much time dwelling on the "what ifs" of Warner.

I would just take Duursma now, you can never have too many good footballers on your list.

Personally I don't see a problem with both Warner and Duursma in the same team, Warner starts on the inside and Duursma on the wing.

Harley, Hewett and Warner on the inside plus one more to be acquired between now and then, has the making of a really solid midfield.

Someone like a Cumming, would be a lovely piece to add to that mix.

Ultimately it's on the wing where I see Duursma being the most damaging and impactful.

We have to take the best combinations that we can in the here and now.

If Warner does want to come on board in the future, well thats nice but let's worry about how we juggle things then.

As for Cochrane the queue lining up for him will be long.

Agree with you, that this far out, he looks like being the best available next year AND the best prospect since Harley.

If he was available this year, we wouldn't be debating on this board, what we do with pick # 1 Dougie would be a certainty.

 

[Mr Q]

To me there is one big hiccup and variable in Duursma I haven't mentioned. Just how confident does the club think it is of acquiring Warner in 2 years time.

I don't think you'd even take that into consideration. The fact that it appeared so likely he was coming back to Perth this year, and then re-signed at the Swine says to me that no matter what it appears like, he'd never be above 50/50.

Don't chase that unicorn, it's probably a mirage. If its real, that's all well and good, but don't plan for it.

 

[ghostbat12]

To me there is one big hiccup and variable in Duursma I haven't mentioned. Just how confident does the club think it is of acquiring Warner in 2 years time. If they are highly confident then to me Duursma is just a bit too much of the same first receiver type on the list as I think Hewett is better as a stoppage midfielder / first receiver than inside. Duursma almost certainly better ovehead, but Warner if needed is highly likely to always be better at the coalface.

I really rate Maric and think he's going to be a great long term wing option for us. If the inside is strong enough having the ability to run Warner as a HHF or wing who takes some centre square stoppages is worth more to us than Duursma in a list build strategy. It would be a big risk.

I am of the opinion unless an offer too good to pass up happens then WCE will draft Duursma. Is a centre square of Sharp, Reid and the rotation of Hewett, Cumming and potentially Warner enough. The right pick swap could land us Cochrane next year as well. Cochrane to me is the best talent since Harley.

What is the offer that becomes to good to be true. Is it Pick 1 and Hawks first for 3 or 4 and Richmonds F1?

Is it Pick 1 & 19 for 5& future first from Essendon.

Where do we draw as supporters draw the line. Where do the only 2 clubs who we would potentially be interested in their picks draw the line.

Pick 1 for 5&6 is probably too good to pass up not sure about future first from Essendon. if they become healthy next year, that future first would not be like this year.

I don't know talent gap between duursma and the rest (APART FROM LINDSAY, CUMMING AND SHARP - which is all we hear about. what if they aren't available or we already took one?) EDIT Monocle already did a speal on various options. Something about grabbing tissues and maybe, just maybe finally the club drafts what he wants. He will feel complete.

as for Warner, like we were confident in getting him at end of last season? I am not drafting now for Warner as he has already shown to be unreliable in making promises.

on risk - what is the risk? that at best he only becomes a very good player? I am surprised people are already talking about need given how rubbish we are.