Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[SBD Gonzalez]

Clueless Chris Minns

The NSW premier’s outrageous rhetoric on peaceful protests sows division in our community. It’s unbecoming of his office | Timothy Roberts

The antisemitic attack in Bondi was an act of hate-fuelled violence. Rushing through regressive laws in such distressing times is poor leadership – and dangerous

www.theguardian.com

 

[Markfs]

Clueless Chris Minns

The NSW premier’s outrageous rhetoric on peaceful protests sows division in our community. It’s unbecoming of his office | Timothy Roberts

The antisemitic attack in Bondi was an act of hate-fuelled violence. Rushing through regressive laws in such distressing times is poor leadership – and dangerous

www.theguardian.com

The Premier wants a royal commission...maybe he can include an inquest into the death of Zomi Frankcom, as the Israelis havent bothered...

and to remind the apologists out there, zomi was actually murdered by the IDF which is actually under the direction of Netanyahu......so unlike Albo, he was actually responsible for her death

 

[Markfs]

Disrespectful yes, but there are a couple of responses staying this is a mall in Tel Aviv and not a remembrance for the victims of Bondi.

I don't know either way but if it is not in Australia why would someone be trying to frame it that way?

nothing to worry about.....she'll be in detention by now....

 

[GhostofJimJess]

The gun lobby, since forever -

“Guns don’t kill people. People kill people.”

So don’t give people guns, moron.

I think anyone who goes into bat for guns should also be sticking up for the rights of everybody to own and use bombs.

Surely bombs also have a useful practical application in many specific industries too? eg. building dams, clearing obstructions for roads, constructing tunnels, digging mining shafts etc.

If somehow these explosive devices fall into the hands of those with sinister intentions, or someone blows themselves up through clumsiness or deliberate self harm, it's not the fault of the bomb.

Using the same logic as those endorsing gun ownership, bombs don't kill people - people kill people.

It'd also be really handy for whenever someone threatens to blow me up, I'll also be armed with a bomb and might be able to blow them up first.

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

When have Labor acted like the LNP or Frydenberg or Howard after a national tragedy

NSWCROW say the line

 

[Hoop1888]

There was the general "any other religion is false and is a threat to spreading Christianity" and would also change our culture away from a "Christian" one.

But I was also brought up that Muslims were a unique threat because they were so violent, that this was a fundamental part of the religion that was believed by most. Not every single one, but enough to stigmatise the whole community.

Luckily I grew up (physically and mentally), and moved somewhere with many more Muslims, have worked with them, have visited Muslim majority countries and others with more than Australia, and broke out of religious/political bubbles that had me believing and expressing bigotry.

I can relate to that in some way. Growing up living beside the Bestest Empire that ever graced the planet, I'd have not been fond of English people because of the history, the genocide they committed here, almost successful attempt at wiping out the language, which is still only spoken by 10s of thousands today and eventually as you get a bit older, life experiences and family members marry them you find that we're almost identical. Yes, it's fun to laugh at English people because they're English, but they'd be appalled to find out what they got up to all over the world if they were taught it at school.

I am by no means a historian when it comes to religion, however, I did listen to a "Empires" pod cast the other week which loosely explained that Islam emerged as a religion in Arabia at around the same time the Roman Empire started to collapse and at the same time the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches split. A new religion meant they didn't have to deal with that split. You start a whole new religion.

It is amazing that a few fiction books have created this much drama and friction.

Think it was the Lex Fridman podcast talking about Genghis Khan and the guest was explaining the roots of how Islam formed from some reason - didn't go into that sort of detail, but I think Muhammed had an apparition of some sort which helped get it going? I'm probably wrong there and I zone out on religion. If it brings contentment to people and folk interpret it to live a good, well balanced life as well as not trying to talk to me about it or try to encourage me to become a member of it, all good.

The psychology behind why people became religious back then would be interesting to know. Faith or core beliefs are a powerful thing and probably something along those lines that stay relatable to this day. Folk who look at everything through a scientific lense to dispel religion, I suppose are one group, but there's still things science can't explain.

Though I did pay a lot of money to reach level 2 of Scientology and aside from being able to recite every line of every Tom Cruise movie, it hasn't done much for me as person.

 

[Markfs]

I can relate to that in some way. Growing up living beside the Bestest Empire that ever graced the planet, I'd have not been fond of English people because of the history, the genocide they committed here, almost successful attempt at wiping out the language, which is still only spoken by 10s of thousands today and eventually as you get a bit older, life experiences and family members marry them you find that we're almost identical. Yes, it's fun to laugh at English people because they're English, but they'd be appalled to find out what they got up to all over the world if they were taught it at school.

Think it was the Lex Fridman podcast talking about Genghis Khan and the guest was explaining the roots of how Islam formed from some reason - didn't go into that sort of detail, but I think Muhammed had an apparition of some sort which helped get it going? I'm probably wrong there and I zone out on religion. If it brings contentment to people and folk interpret it to live a good, well balanced life as well as not trying to talk to me about it or try to encourage me to become a member of it, all good.

The psychology behind why people became religious back then would be interesting to know. Faith or core beliefs are a powerful thing and probably something along those lines that stay relatable to this day. Folk who look at everything through a scientific lense to dispel religion, I suppose are one group, but there's still things science can't explain.

Though I did pay a lot of money to reach level 2 of Scientology and aside from being able to recite every line of every Tom Cruise movie, it hasn't done much for me as person.

congrats on leaving scientology, although i remember reading battlefield earth when i was a teen....

 

[Sphynx]

The Premier wants a royal commission...maybe he can include an inquest into the death of Zomi Frankcom, as the Israelis havent bothered...

and to remind the apologists out there, zomi was actually murdered by the IDF which is actually under the direction of Netanyahu......so unlike Albo, he was actually responsible for her death

The Port Arthur Royal Commission was a Tasmanian one.

Most of the laws pertaining to what happened on the day and leading up to it are state ones and need a state response anyway.

 

[Gavin Excell]

A general question - what do you think the average, non political Australian person thinks of Bondi and the governments response.

I ask this because I was talking to an (older) person yesterday who was horrified by the shootings but who then added "i wish they wouldn't bring their conflict here"

I wonder if this the majority (silent) opinion? That a lot of people are over it all and dont want to be dragged into picking a side. If this is even half way correct, im not sure the tactics taken by the LNP are going to resonate with the public in the way they expect.

 

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

A general question - what do you think the average, non political Australian person thinks of Bondi and the governments response.

I ask this because I was talking to an (older) person yesterday who was horrified by the shootings but who then added "i wish they wouldn't bring their conflict here"

I wonder if this the majority (silent) opinion? That a lot of people are over it all and dont want to be dragged into picking a side. If this is even half way correct, im not sure the tactics taken by the LNP are going to resonate with the public in the way they expect.

Yes it is. And I think it's a vast majority.

 

[Gough]

A general question - what do you think the average, non political Australian person thinks of Bondi and the governments response.

I ask this because I was talking to an (older) person yesterday who was horrified by the shootings but who then added "i wish they wouldn't bring their conflict here"

I wonder if this the majority (silent) opinion? That a lot of people are over it all and dont want to be dragged into picking a side. If this is even half way correct, im not sure the tactics taken by the LNP are going to resonate with the public in the way they expect.

The Libs in government behaved like they were never going to be in opposition again which now makes it difficult for them prosecute any case against the current government without any accustations of staggering double standards.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I think anyone who goes into bat for guns should also be sticking up for the rights of everybody to own and use bombs.

Surely bombs also have a useful practical application in many specific industries too? eg. building dams, clearing obstructions for roads, constructing tunnels, digging mining shafts etc.

If somehow these explosive devices fall into the hands of those with sinister intentions, or someone blows themselves up through clumsiness or deliberate self harm, it's not the fault of the bomb.

Using the same logic as those endorsing gun ownership, bombs don't kill people - people kill people.

It'd also be really handy for whenever someone threatens to blow me up, I'll also be armed with a bomb and might be able to blow them up first.

Beautiful mate.

Anthrax doesn’t kill people. People kill people.

Depleted uranium doesn’t kill people. People kill people.

Mustard gas doesn’t kill people. People kill people.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

A general question - what do you think the average, non political Australian person thinks of Bondi and the governments response.

I ask this because I was talking to an (older) person yesterday who was horrified by the shootings but who then added "i wish they wouldn't bring their conflict here"

I wonder if this the majority (silent) opinion? That a lot of people are over it all and dont want to be dragged into picking a side. If this is even half way correct, im not sure the tactics taken by the LNP are going to resonate with the public in the way they expect.

Well as I said in the Lib Party thread yesterday, even though I believe the great majority of Australians aren’t antisemitic, I don’t think running hard on Labor supposedly being soft on antisemitism is quite the vote winner the Coalition seems to think it is.

I might be proved wrong (I was wrong about Howard and Keating in 96, I was wrong about Morrison and Shorten in 2019), but I’m starting to conclude the Coalition really are that out of touch with the nation they effect to lead.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

The Premier wants a royal commission...maybe he can include an inquest into the death of Zomi Frankcom, as the Israelis havent bothered...

and to remind the apologists out there, zomi was actually murdered by the IDF which is actually under the direction of Netanyahu......so unlike Albo, he was actually responsible for her death

Wong sent a senior army officer to Israel to oversee the enquiry. She was disappointed that he came back with a report that the enquiry was thorough and above board, so we didn’t hear much about it

 

[QuietB]

A general question - what do you think the average, non political Australian person thinks of Bondi and the governments response.

I ask this because I was talking to an (older) person yesterday who was horrified by the shootings but who then added "i wish they wouldn't bring their conflict here"

I wonder if this the majority (silent) opinion? That a lot of people are over it all and dont want to be dragged into picking a side. If this is even half way correct, im not sure the tactics taken by the LNP are going to resonate with the public in the way they expect.

It is a mind boggling strategy by the Liberals that frankly has never made any sense at all.

So the same as most Liberal strategies. Some Lobby group buys them - then the Liberals work out (or completely screw up) the details on the fly.

 

[faible]

Well as I said in the Lib Party thread yesterday, even though I believe the great majority of Australians aren’t antisemitic, I don’t think running hard on Labor supposedly being soft on antisemitism is quite the vote winner the Coalition seems to think it is.

I might be proved wrong (I was wrong about Howard and Keating in 96, I was wrong about Morrison and Shorten in 2019), but I’m starting to conclude the Coalition really are that out of touch with the nation they effect to lead.

LNP lost voters en masse by going too hard to the right and chasing the One Nation style voter.

In response to a resounding election loss, they’ve gone harder to the right.

Teals basically represent the traditional LNP voter base now.

 

[Gough]

Ban all religion otherwise the feeble minded and weak will just continue to use it as an excuse for hatred.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

LNP lost voters en masse by going too hard to the right and chasing the One Nation style voter.

In response to a resounding election loss, they’ve gone harder to the right.

Teals basically represent the traditional LNP voter base now.

And the generational shif has really impacted the lnp.

They struggle to connect with millenials and Gen z who have seen **** up after **** up by the libs.

 

[Grumpyshades]

The lefties really don’t want to address Islamic extremism in Australia, do they…. Never mind lefties, that wasn’t a question, I was being rhetorical

yep deflection, denial and damage control
Once again their little fairytales they cling to got exploded last Sunday night

Virtually every terrorist cell in Australia is Islamic based. The police have already stopped another potential terrorist attack since Sunday

Since 1980 over 80% of terror attacks world wide have been Islamic

Yet its not a problem according to people on this board. Embarrassing denial

 

[Markfs]

Wong sent a senior army officer to Israel to oversee the enquiry. She was disappointed that he came back with a report that the enquiry was thorough and above board, so we didn’t hear much about it

oversee is a word that basically means supervise. i wont bother to go further.

 

[Bloods86]

yep deflection, denial and damage control
Once again their little fairytales they cling to got exploded last Sunday night

Virtually every terrorist cell in Australia is Islamic based. The police have already stopped another potential terrorist attack since Sunday

Since 1980 over 80% of terror attacks world wide have been Islamic

Yet its not a problem according to people on this board. Embarrassing denial

If you guys could read, it would clear a lot of things up for you.

Islamic extremism and terrorism is bad, and it exists in Australia.

This does not mean the whole Muslim community needs to be stigmatised and berated for it.

 

[Markfs]

The Port Arthur Royal Commission was a Tasmanian one.

Most of the laws pertaining to what happened on the day and leading up to it are state ones and need a state response anyway.

royal commissions can be useful in investigating issues where people give evidence under oath, and where commission investigators have powers to uncover hard to access information. of course, it is also useful for gov't wanting to shift the blame.

 

[Festerz]

royal commissions can be useful in investigating issues where people give evidence under oath, and where commission investigators have powers to uncover hard to access information. of course, it is also useful for gov't wanting to shift the blame.

Utter Rubbish.

Royal Commissions are independent inquiries. The Commissioner reports to the Governor General (at the federal level) or the Governor (at state level) and their reports/findings tabled in the responsible Parliament.

Countless examples exist of evidence presented to and recommendations flowing from Royal Commissions embarrassing the Governments that established them.

What they dod do is , as much as is possible, allow for facts based evidence and proper process take precedence over politics.

 

[Markfs]

Utter Rubbish.

Royal Commissions are independent inquiries. The Commissioner reports to the Governor General (at the federal level) or the Governor (at state level) and their reports/findings tabled in the responsible Parliament.

Countless examples exist of evidence presented to and recommendations flowing from Royal Commissions embarrassing the Governments that established them.

What they dod do is , as much as is possible, allow for facts based evidence and proper process take precedence over politics.

Similar to a HR dept that outsources a disciplinary inquiry to an "independent" investigator.

 

[Carringbush2010]

As expected this thread has become a mud slinging back and forth about left v right ideology bullshit.

It isn't about that, even though it may appear to have overlap, not the point.

Burgess the head of Asio has admitted that Asio knew, since 2019, that one of the perpetrators had ties or sympathy with isis. (correct me if wrong or supply a more detailed position).

Even if there are no 'laws' to, for want of a better term 'contain' or 'not allow' this person to committ this heinous act. How has been able to come to pass even with the intel Asio had?

Why is it that it seems more important to allow liberal freedom for someone to murder people instead curtailing what seems to be a likely threat to members of society than to members of society's safety?

IMHO neo liberalism has taken hold to allow this to happen, we've become a society where deterrence and consequence for anti social and life threatening behavior has become non existent and Anarchy and hate has been allowed to fester as a result.

But it's ok, at least no one has been offended, don't worry about the dead people, let's not offend anyone - most important.

We treat people who hate with 'you have rights even though we know you hate, so we'll wait til you do something before we do anything'

^It starts and ends here^

This is the impression I get.

Not immigration, not the scary brown people, not the every single white person is bigoted, not irrational progressives, not self centred ahole extreme right wingers, not mysoginists, not misandrists, not terfs, not homophobes, not the muslims, not the jews.

Our liberal democratic society seems to treat the symptoms after the fact, rather than address the causes. Leniency has increased to a point of anarchy.