AFL Player 1: Andrew "Pidge" McGrath (c) - 42nd Captain of the Essendon Football Club

[Beerfish]

Contract Status: Unrestricted Free Agent 2030
My Boy Draft 2024: Pick 13, Vindicater

 

[faible]

General consensus on here seems to be that he'll the type of captain we need for a few years while the list develops and a standout leader emerges from the group. My views on McGrath as captain are known, but that aside - what makes us think that this would actually happen? I'd say it's more likely he captains til he decides to retire. Why would he want to give it up? Players will likely keep supporting him because they like him, and he's not going to be upsetting anyone by giving them hard truths or demanding anything from anyone other than 'try your best'. Unless things change at the club, the administration isn't going to push him out - I mean Scott still wanted Heppell to remain captain when he was clearly well below best 22 material. I worry that we're stuck with him.

If McGrath is Captain long-term it either means; he's doing a good job and the young seemingly competitive guys we've drafted (like Roberts & Sharp) look up to him, or, the young competitive guys we've drafted have failed to step-up and become the leaders they looked like they'd be.

Heppell was in that boat, I think he gets unfairly maligned but he was Captain for such a long time because there simply wasn't anyone else that could do it better. We've seen that Merrett is a good player but perhaps not a great leader end up with the role because there was no one else. Heppell with a better team around him would be remembered differently IMO.

You've got Archie Roberts who looks to be a super competitive leader amongst the younger guys, you've got Sharp who looks like he should be one for 4 - 5 years down the track. If McGrath is still Captain in 10 years, it says a guy like Sharp hasn't been what we'd have hoped as much as it says anything about McGrath's leadership.

 

[P Money]

If McGrath is Captain long-term it either means; he's doing a good job and the young seemingly competitive guys we've drafted (like Roberts & Sharp) look up to him, or, the young competitive guys we've drafted have failed to step-up and become the leaders they looked like they'd be.

Heppell was in that boat, I think he gets unfairly maligned but he was Captain for such a long time because there simply wasn't anyone else that could do it better. We've seen that Merrett is a good player but perhaps not a great leader end up with the role because there was no one else. Heppell with a better team around him would be remembered differently IMO.

You've got Archie Roberts who looks to be a super competitive leader amongst the younger guys, you've got Sharp who looks like he should be one for 4 - 5 years down the track. If McGrath is still Captain in 10 years, it says a guy like Sharp hasn't been what we'd have hoped as much as it says anything about McGrath's leadership.

Agree with your points, but there's a bit of chicken and egg in this. Who will Sharp/Roberts/others be learning from? They may be natural leaders, but they'll be graduates of 5+ years of the McGrath school of leadership, as McGrath was a 7-year graduate of the Heppell school. It's a worry.

 

[faible]

Agree with your points, but there's a bit of chicken and egg in this. Who will Sharp/Roberts/others be learning from? They may be natural leaders, but they'll be graduates of 5+ years of the McGrath school of leadership, as McGrath was a 7-year graduate of the Heppell school. It's a worry.

I think Heppell is unfairly maligned because he simply didn't have a functional organisation around him. Everything we've ever heard is that the entire playing group loved him (and he was Captain through some extremely challenging times), he worked his ass off, he destroyed his body playing inside midfield with a body not capable of it, and post Captaincy (and retirement) he's still been a massively uniting figure around the club. Heppell had almost no chance of being in a successful team because the organisation around him was a fairly at basically every single level; coaching, drafting, conditioning, focus on football performance.

Meanwhile Merrett is a great player that 'seemed' like the ultra-competitive leader we thought would take the club forward, but it's turned out he isn't. Gary Ablett Jnr was an incredible player but he couldn't bring the group together as a leader.

McGrath seems like a more uniting personality that will bring the group together and build up the young guys. He might not be a Hodge, Selwood or Riewoldt that are some of the best leaders the game has ever seen, but we've seen guys like Harley, Ling, Maxwell, Hurn, Moore and Andrews all win Premierships in recent memory who aren't the Hodge's or Selwood's of the league.

Even Cotchin as an example, he wasn't the leader he's remembered as until he became it. He was Captain for years whilst Richmond were in nowhere land, then he grew into a great leader when he sacrificed his game for the benefit of the team.

I think McGrath deserves a chance to see how he grows with the group before we start maligning him.

 

[P Money]

I think Heppell is unfairly maligned because he simply didn't have a functional organisation around him. Everything we've ever heard is that the entire playing group loved him (and he was Captain through some extremely challenging times), he worked his ass off, he destroyed his body playing inside midfield with a body not capable of it, and post Captaincy (and retirement) he's still been a massively uniting figure around the club. Heppell had almost no chance of being in a successful team because the organisation around him was a fairly at basically every single level; coaching, drafting, conditioning, focus on football performance.

Meanwhile Merrett is a great player that 'seemed' like the ultra-competitive leader we thought would take the club forward, but it's turned out he isn't. Gary Ablett Jnr was an incredible player but he couldn't bring the group together as a leader.

McGrath seems like a more uniting personality that will bring the group together and build up the young guys. He might not be a Hodge, Selwood or Riewoldt that are some of the best leaders the game has ever seen, but we've seen guys like Harley, Ling, Maxwell, Hurn, Moore and Andrews all win Premierships in recent memory who aren't the Hodge's or Selwood's of the league.

Even Cotchin as an example, he wasn't the leader he's remembered as until he became it. He was Captain for years whilst Richmond were in nowhere land, then he grew into a great leader when he sacrificed his game for the benefit of the team.

I think McGrath deserves a chance to see how he grows with the group before we start maligning him.

I definitely agree about Heppell and his chances of on-field success - pretty much absolute zero. And I'm not here to malign Andy. I have my views on him as a leader based on some on-field stuff which I'm not here to rehash, but I do think his 'style' of leadership is pretty clear (as much as it can be from the outside). He's a very nice guy, well-spoken, well-respected, well-liked. Like a more refined, privileged version of Heppell (who again I'm not here to malign).

The main point I was trying to make is that people on here seem to think he's right person for now, but in a few years should be replaced by a stronger leader with a harder edge (in that Hodge/Selwood/Riewoldt mould). Even those other captains you mention, I don't get the 'nice guy friends with everyone' vibe - they seem to have a much harder edge than Heppell or McGrath. My concern is that trying to move out a universally well-liked, friendly guy from the captaincy after 2-3-4 years is pretty unlikely, meaning that, whatever leader McGrath shows himself to be, it's more likely he's captain until he retires. Each will have their own view on whether that's a good thing.

 

[faible]

My concern is that trying to move out a universally well-liked, friendly guy from the captaincy after 2-3-4 years is pretty unlikely

This says more about the playing group and the organisation than McGrath himself if that's the case IMO.

Drafting and recruitment failed to find a better leader than Heppell to replace him sooner, Merrett only really got the job because Heppell was so obviously cooked as a player. We simply didn't have a player on the list that was such a strong leader they took it off him.

Can you imagine a Selwood or Hodge being 'stuck' behind McGrath? It wouldn't happen. They're such great leaders that they force their way into the role. The idea isn't for McGrath to be replaced just because, it's for Rosa to draft someone that will be such a great leader that it forces the playing group to follow them.

Or, for McGrath to grow into the role like a Cotchin did that he himself becomes such a strong leader.

 

[EnolaGay]

General consensus on here seems to be that he'll the type of captain we need for a few years while the list develops and a standout leader emerges from the group. My views on McGrath as captain are known, but that aside - what makes us think that this would actually happen? I'd say it's more likely he captains til he decides to retire. Why would he want to give it up? Players will likely keep supporting him because they like him, and he's not going to be upsetting anyone by giving them hard truths or demanding anything from anyone other than 'try your best'. Unless things change at the club, the administration isn't going to push him out - I mean Scott still wanted Heppell to remain captain when he was clearly well below best 22 material. I worry that we're stuck with him.

Can we give him a go first before jumping to conclusions?

 

[Yoda_]

Jumping on a bloke before he's given a chance really is peak BigFooty

McGrath may just reasonate with the wider playing group more than Merrett did. Both Andy and the group may have the shackles released from the tension Zac may have brought around him.

Lets see how he goes before suggesting things like "we're stuck with him"

 

[Old Campaigner]

Can we give him a go first before jumping to conclusions?

nah, just fire from the hip

 

[King Patty]

Why would he want to give it up? Players will likely keep supporting him because they like him, and he's not going to be upsetting anyone by giving them hard truths or demanding anything from anyone other than 'try your best'. Unless things change at the club, the administration isn't going to push him out

I think your both right and wrong here.

Right in that once the encumbant captain - why give it up?

You would need a serious leader to stand out to demand it....People can go early on Sharp. But thats at least 3-4 years away

IMO - Caldwell/Durham/Martin are probably the next run down and none are really demanding pick me as captain right now.
Maybe that eventuates maybe not. If Durham or Martin became a top 5 mid in the comp then maybe you consider it.

Also I rate Zach Reid in ability, maybe he plays a Harris Andrews captain role down the track.

As far as not giving anyone hard truths, I think McGrath will give back a lot more feedback than Merrett.
It won't all be negative in fact I think it will be more of a teaching / learning perspective to improve everyone on the list.
I think we have more hope with McGrath leading from the front and explaining the game plan, than trusting in Brad and the coaches to do it all, as they don;t fill me with much confidence.

But McGrath has shown the ability to bring other players up
-Durham, Menzie, Cahill, Nguyen, the players McGrath takes under his wing, Improve and set standards to get the best out of themseleves. They may not have enough talent to stay on the list, but with McGraths guidance they got a shot, debut, some games to try and make a career.

I can't think of many players say that Merrett did the same for them. He was more get around the senior players and work with what we have, bring experience in. Rather than develop the list IMO. Merrett did set an example, an McGRath gave him some credit, but this is a number 1 pick with great work ethic.

 

[P Money]

Jumping on a bloke before he's given a chance really is peak BigFooty

McGrath may just reasonate with the wider playing group more than Merrett did. Both Andy and the group may have the shackles released from the tension Zac may have brought around him.

Lets see how he goes before suggesting things like "we're stuck with him"

Don't know how, from everything I've said, you've drawn the conclusion that I'm 'jumping on a bloke'. I'd say selectively picking out 4 words from multiple posts and ignoring the rest, then using that to having a crack at someone is real 'Peak BigFooty'.

 

[Yoda_]

Don't know how, from everything I've said, you've drawn the conclusion that I'm 'jumping on a bloke'. I'd say selectively picking out 4 words from multiple posts and ignoring the rest, then using that to having a crack at someone is real 'Peak BigFooty'.

was a generalistion, not just our own board but across BigFooty mate,

 

[Gabe251]

Merrett rated laverde and was angry we ditched him. Trash.

 

[Bipolar Bear]

Pidge for AA this year, calling it. Exactly the sort of leader I can imagine going to big heights as a leader.

 

[Goat Hird]

I'm not sure it's a bold prediction if most think that's how it will play out.

 

[Call Me Cake]

Heppell was and is a ripper bloke but he was an awful choice as a captain particularly coming off the skipper in Jobe (our 2nd best captain since Hird). The lathargic approach and unaccountability we've seen across the group since Jobe traces back to him and the damage he's done to us setting a professional culture will take many more years to undo.

 

[Duckworth]

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Yeah OK, I've seen 'bold' or 'unpopular' opinion quite a bit on here. I haven't seen enough of your posting to gauge your general grasp of things.

 

[Duckworth]

Heppell was and is a ripper bloke but he was an awful choice as a captain particularly coming off the skipper in Jobe (our 2nd best captain since Hird). The lathargic approach and unaccountability we've seen across the group since Jobe traces back to him and the damage he's done to us setting a professional culture will take many more years to undo.

I agree with this, but who else would you have made captain instead?

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Not a fan of this decision tbh. Really highlights the inadequacy of our list.

I've never seen him do anything on the field that screams captain.

I'm not a big fan of backroom captains. You need to lead on field for me. You need to have at least one outstanding trait on the ground.

I would have looked at a co captain thing. Caldwell and Durham our two hardest at the contest.

 

[Bipolar Bear]

I've never seen him do anything on the field that screams captain.

You need to have at least one outstanding trait on the ground.

One of the best 1-on-1 defenders in the comp.
I would back him to beat any small forward in the league in a contest.

 

[faible]

One of the best 1-on-1 defenders in the comp.
I would back him to beat any small forward in the league in a contest.

Kelvin clearly missed the game he was captain this year, including being mic’ed up. You can actually listen to how he leads in game.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

The captaincy will improve him on field. He had 35 touches, 6 clearances and 9 score involvements and 3 Brownlow votes when he was captaining against the saints this year. He clearly relishes the responsibility.

 

[NAB777]

The captaincy will improve him on field. He had 35 touches, 6 clearances and 9 score involvements and 3 Brownlow votes when he was captaining against the saints this year. He clearly relishes the responsibility.

Are you saying he doesn't try when he's not captain?

 

[fairbump_playon]

Are you saying he doesn't try when he's not captain?

A lot of players simply don’t try for their whole career, just hoping they will be made captain

That’s a well known fact

 

[Yoda_]

Not a fan of this decision tbh. Really highlights the inadequacy of our list.

I've never seen him do anything on the field that screams captain.

I'm not a big fan of backroom captains. You need to lead on field for me. You need to have at least one outstanding trait on the ground.

I would have looked at a co captain thing. Caldwell and Durham our two hardest at the contest.

sometimes the ones we dont expect are the most well respected leaders within groups.


We all laughed at 2010 premiership captain Nick Maxwell when he was first named skipper, im not denouncing it to be the same result but the point remains. McGrath is obviously well respected and can galvanise the group

 

[carloss]

The captaincy will improve him on field. He had 35 touches, 6 clearances and 9 score involvements and 3 Brownlow votes when he was captaining against the saints this year. He clearly relishes the responsibility.

Can't play the Saints every week.