Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[Gethelred]

I don’t really agree. As much as that’s the sentiment of choice for western leaders, it’s just their cowardice. Calls for unity after something like this are part of how they justify not doing anything meaningful. Terrorists must find it hilarious every time civilians are murdered in the streets and the response is just the main population being pre-emptively told off for their bigotry.

But haven't we kind of lived it, EG?

People lining up in the streets to give blood. Muslims and Jews coming together to condemn the attack, with Sydney muslims refusing them religious funeral rights.

Isn't what we - us, the community rather than us the government - have done, the way we have responded, shown that we are unified on this, that our multiculturalism is stronger than this? That the ties that bind us are stronger than the pulls that seek to divide?

 

[Not Important]

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the grief over the monstrous act at bondi is understandable. where is the corresponding grief of the 60,000 palestinians who lost their lives? the jcoa understands the hypocrisy.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

And when they want to go hunting?

You have no interest in hunting, sport shooting or land management so you would have that attitude.... however not everyone has the same interests/lifestyle....EG i have absolutely no interest in going to the beach. I see it as highly dangerous with numerous deaths every year....however i wouldn't ever support even the slightest restrictions for people who enjoy that lifestyle just because of my own feelings.

I wouldn't group land management in with hunting and sport shooting. I already said I'm OK with certain rural occupations having guns under strict conditions.

The beach doesn't exist to kill and maim. Guns do.

If people could be trusted with guns, I'd be OK with them being more widely available, but they clearly can't.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

But haven't we kind of lived it, EG?

People lining up in the streets to give blood. Muslims and Jews coming together to condemn the attack, with Sydney muslims refusing them religious funeral rights.

Isn't what we - us, the community rather than us the government - have done, the way we have responded, shown that we are unified on this, that our multiculturalism is stronger than this? That the ties that bind us are stronger than the pulls that seek to divide?

Exactly. Bondi was horrific, but it was out of the box, and let's not lose sight of what an extraordinary place modern Australia is. So much that the rest of the world can learn from us, but a lot of people want to put about the notion that we're hurtling towards hell in a handbasket.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

I wouldn't group land management in with hunting and sport shooting. I already said I'm OK with certain rural occupations having guns under strict conditions.

The beach doesn't exist to kill and maim. Guns do.

If people could be trusted with guns, I'd be OK with them being more widely available, but they clearly can't.

Um....just shy of a Million licensed firearms owners in Australia... and because a non Australian citizen and his son were radicalized by Islamist ideology, able to get a firearms license and shoot up a Jewish picnic in a hate crime.......you think "people can't be trusted with guns"

Wow.....just Wow!

The statistical reality is that it is only a tiny decimal of firearms owners who can't be trusted, people who are radicalised for starters, and this is where the firearms reforms should be focused.....but that doesnt really make good headlines or political capitol for Albo.

 

[ElectricG]

But haven't we kind of lived it, EG?

People lining up in the streets to give blood. Muslims and Jews coming together to condemn the attack, with Sydney muslims refusing them religious funeral rights.

Isn't what we - us, the community rather than us the government - have done, the way we have responded, shown that we are unified on this, that our multiculturalism is stronger than this? That the ties that bind us are stronger than the pulls that seek to divide?

People doing those things are good and well intentioned, but ultimately I think it’s the wrong response.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

And when they want to go hunting?

You have no interest in hunting, sport shooting or land management so you would have that attitude.... however not everyone has the same interests/lifestyle....EG i have absolutely no interest in going to the beach. I see it as highly dangerous with numerous deaths every year....however i wouldn't ever support even the slightest restrictions for people who enjoy that lifestyle just because of my own feelings.

FMD ..how is that even equivalent??!!

 

[Ghost Patrol]

People doing those things are good and well intentioned, but ultimately I think it’s the wrong response.

Donating blood is the wrong response?

Wtf

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

FMD ..how is that even equivalent??!!

Yeah you are right...its like trying to equate Howard's historic response to PA, to Albo's response to Bondi. Not even in the same league.

 

[ElectricG]

Donating blood is the wrong response?

Wtf

I described it as “good”, and it’s good even when there’s no massacre.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Um....just shy of a Million licensed firearms owners in Australia... and because a non Australian citizen and his son were radicalized by Islamist ideology, able to get a firearms license and shoot up a Jewish picnic in a hate crime.......you think "people can't be trusted with guns"

Wow.....just Wow!

The statistical reality is that it is only a tiny decimal of firearms owners who can't be trusted, people who are radicalised for starters, and this is where the firearms reforms should be focused.....but that doesnt really make good headlines or political capitol for Albo.

Globally, people can't be trusted with guns in general. Americans often can't, clearly. Swiss usually can, likewise Australians.

It's great that the statistical reality is that so few people with guns are irresponsible, but the statistical reality is also that the ones that ARE irresponsible, cause untold suffering and slaughter.

A gun is a piece of technology that exists to kill or maim. We can't ban them, and they often serve a purpose, but we need to return them to their rightful place in society, which is inaccessible to almost everyone.

 

[Markfs]

being very urban, I can't understand why a farmer needs more than 10 guns. Presumably he is trying to kill an animal for some reason. Maybe a kangaroo, or a wombat, or some small marsupial...or a pig...or a tasmanian tiger...

does each animal require its own particular kind of gun?

 

[Gethelred]

People doing those things are good and well intentioned, but ultimately I think it’s the wrong response.

I think that's awfully sad.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Um....just shy of a Million licensed firearms owners in Australia... and because a non Australian citizen and his son were radicalized by Islamist ideology, able to get a firearms license and shoot up a Jewish picnic in a hate crime.......you think "people can't be trusted with guns"

Wow.....just Wow!

The statistical reality is that it is only a tiny decimal of firearms owners who can't be trusted, people who are radicalised for starters, and this is where the firearms reforms should be focused.....but that doesnt really make good headlines or political capitol for Albo.

No most of the American shooters were non terrorist related. Disturbed people. Same could still happen here. Rapid fire bolt action guns are not needed at all. Restrictions are necessary. Bondi could also encourage more disturbed people to take up licences.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Globally, people can't be trusted with guns in general. Americans often can't, clearly. Swiss usually can, likewise Australians.

It's great that the statistical reality is that so few people with guns are irresponsible, but the statistical reality is also that the ones that ARE irresponsible, cause untold suffering and slaughter.

A gun is a piece of technology that exists to kill or maim. We can't ban them, and they often serve a purpose, but we need to return them to their rightful place in society, which is inaccessible to almost everyone.

So wouldn't you focus on excluding those minute groups of people who are prone to using them irresponsibly, rather than blanket removal of liberties? Be targted in your approach?

Because many of the proposed reforms would not have done anything to prevent Bondi, and yet i see plenty of city types all ignorantly supporting them. If the aim is to stop another Bondi....why arent the proposed changes to Gun laws targeted in that manner? and why isn't there more investment in targeting, monitoring, deporting and rehabilitating those involved with radicalization?

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

being very urban, I can't understand why a farmer needs more than 10 guns. Presumably he is trying to kill an animal for some reason. Maybe a kangaroo, or a wombat, or some small marsupial...or a pig...or a tasmanian tiger...

does each animal require its own particular kind of gun?

In case a kangaroo steals nine of guns the farmer has a 10th gun thereby out thinking the marsupial.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

those minute groups of people

What are you saying exactly?

 

[ElectricG]

I think that's awfully sad.

I know, and it is. But I don’t think the Disney movie ending where the bad guy realises he was wrong is just peddling an easy answer. We could do less, but we’d have to try.

 

[Gough]

I think that's awfully sad.

We're about to a see an all guns blazing attack on multiculturalism.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Abbot an underrated PM. Bring him back.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

View attachment 2500563

You're right, it's a real pity Labor completely destroyed immigration laws in this country.

 

[dean33]

I have to wonder why sport shooting enthusiasts are such a protected species.

100%. Surely gun clubs can provide people guns they have on premises they can use?
As for farmers, how often would they use guns and for what reason? To kill foxes and other pests? Euthanase one of their animals? Genuinely interested here as I dont know.

 

[Elixuh]

Albanese responding to a horrific act of terror committed by Islamists, radicalised on our shores and in our communities is now talking about "stamping out" Islamaphobia, including "stamping out fear" that (allegedly) causes Islamaphobia.


The mask is slipping, he is letting his authoritarian roots show. And there are those in here who still think this pathetic, despicable excuse for a leader gives a f* about protecting Australian lives. He has made it clear, it is not the lives of those who died last weekend that matters, it is not Australian values that matters, it is not your life that matters - it's making sure "Islamaphobia" is "stamped" out.

Authoritarian, far left, Islamist dictator.

I’d just like to say you’re consistently one of the SMARTEST posters on this website. You make many SMART as shit comments. You definitely know what certain words mean and don’t ever use them erroneously or out of context. I have no doubt in my mind that you definitely know what certain words mean.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

No most of the American shooters were non terrorist related. Disturbed people. Same could still happen here. Rapid fire bolt action guns are not needed at all. Restrictions are necessary. Bondi could also encourage more disturbed people to take up licences.

Many American active shooters have been radicalized. Just not in the way we saw at Bondi. The same could not happen here. Handguns in the hands of gang members are responsible for the highest proportion of gun deaths in USA. Its not easy to get a Handgun legally in Australia.

Instead of blanket bans that disproportionately affect the vast majority of responsible firearm owners, I would think a more sensible way forward would be to create further firearms license categories and further scrutiny on individuals seeking those categories representing risky firearm types. The goal would be that it would be more difficult to attain straight pull rifle types, push button shotguns etc. and that review and monitoring would be ongoing and heavily scrutinized.

Most people would not need those categories, unless a specific need could be demonstrated for each type.

An Example

Cat A - Rimfire/Air rifle/slug gun
Cat B - Longarm centrefire (Single shot or Traditional bolt action)
Cat C - Shotgun (Single or Double)
Cat D - Fast action (Straight pull, button push or otherwise modified)
Cat E - Sporting shooter (Skeet/Trap/Pistol)
Cat F - Semi auto (For prescribed contractors)

Etc


This would all require ongoing investment. And the reality is for a Labor government, there is no political benefit in appeasing the largely rural/regional gun community, because your best bet is to pander to the city types who have little understanding about firearms, and therefore are easy to convince and persuade with mistruths.

 

[Gethelred]

I know, and it is. But I don’t think the Disney movie ending where the bad guy realises he was wrong is just peddling an easy answer. We could do less, but we’d have to try.

I think you've missed what I meant, but the reason why I think it's sad is that you don't see people coming together as the correct response.

You don't like it when I psychoanalyse posters, so I'll refrain from doing it here. Just, people look at that George Castanza quote from Seinfeld - "It's not a lie if you believe it" - as a negative when in reality it just illuminates how powerful any one of us can be if we believe.

And I'm not talking about religious belief. Those people giving blood - a part of themselves - believe in the idea of Australia. I'm a bit sad that you don't seem to.