Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[Gough]

This is peak “your mask is slipping”

Not at all, my grandad was at Belsen after it was liberated, he self medicated for the rest of his life and dropped dead in front of me when I was seven, I hate Nazis with a particular passion. I also hate the Holocaust being co-opted to justify Zionist foreign policy.

 

[Markfs]

No I mean they chill with IS, say that they like terrorism and celebrate when terrorist attacks happen. If your idea is that we have to wait until they actually launch an attack before we can do anything then well that doesn’t bode well does it

so the perth guy who posted in a forum that he supported the two shooters, you would jail him for that statement?...for how long?

 

[ElectricG]

so the perth guy who posted in a forum that he supported the two shooters, you would jail him for that statement?...for how long?

30 years
Edit: this is accounting for all the other stuff he was up to, including collecting terrorist flags and plans to make IEDs

 

[Markfs]

30 years
Edit: this is accounting for all the other stuff he was up to, including collecting terrorist flags and plans to make IEDs

I've got a watermelon pin. Do I get 5 years? Oh and a keffiyeh..

 

[ElectricG]

I've got a watermelon pin. Do I get 5 years?

Of what?

 

[ferball]

No I mean they chill with IS, say that they like terrorism and celebrate when terrorist attacks happen. If your idea is that we have to wait until they actually launch an attack before we can do anything then well that doesn’t bode well does it

Should we arrest people before they commit crimes?

 

[ElectricG]

Should we arrest people before they commit crimes?

Yes, we do it all the time. Or, at least before the harmful “act” is committed. Planning a terrorist attack is surely a crime no?

 

[Markfs]

Of what?

no thats ok...i'll keep that info to myself. It might become a jailable offence in the next few months

 

[ElectricG]

no thats ok...i'll keep that info to myself. It might become a jailable offence in the next few months

ISIS. Hezbollah. Hamas.

It’s one of these. Which one?

 

[Markfs]

Yes, we do it all the time. Or, at least before the harmful “act” is committed. Planning a terrorist attack is surely a crime no?

funny thing about that perth guy is that his guns were legal, although there was a firearms charge and the ammo was legal as well. He had two flags but he said that he had 50 flags. He had matches...and I must admit that it appeared that he had plans . However I found some of the police behaviour a bit hysterical, even though they were dealing with antisemitism.

And then there were those guys driving to sydney. They looked rather brown, which probably indicates guilt. The police released them. So probably 20 years for those boys?

 

[Markfs]

ISIS. Hezbollah. Hamas.

It’s one of these. Which one?

You'll have to wait until your whatsapp catchup...I thought everyone in the know knew about the watermelon.

 

[ElectricG]

funny thing about that perth guy is that his guns were legal, although there was a firearms charge and the ammo was legal as well. He had two flags but he said that he had 50 flags. He had matches...and I must admit that it appeared that he had plans . However I found some of the police behaviour a bit hysterical, even though they were dealing with antisemitism.

Yeah cops need to chill when somebody is planning to blow up a bunch of people.

And then there were those guys driving to sydney. They looked rather brown, which probably indicates guilt. The police released them. So probably 20 years for those boys?

I’m sure they had something more on them than being brown.

 

[Markfs]

Yeah cops need to chill when somebody is planning to blow up a bunch of people.

I’m sure they had something more on them than being brown.

well as i said previously, you guys are in charge.

 

[ferball]

Yes, we do it all the time. Or, at least before the harmful “act” is committed. Planning a terrorist attack is surely a crime no?

Yeah and people get done for it. People get locked up for expressing support for ISIS and encouraging others to do the same.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

If we're going to discuss what the PM and his Foreign Affairs Minister said then best to start with quoting them and their use of the word 'sorry' exactly:

Albanese:

''I feel the weight of responsibility for an atrocity that happened whilst I'm Prime Minister,... and I'm sorry for what the Jewish community and our nation as a whole has experienced.'

Wong:

'Im desperately sorry for what has occurred in our country and what the Jewish community have experienced'.

IMO these are words of empathy and understanding and with a lot more depth and understanding than the 'thoughts and prayers' trope dished out by political leaders after similar tragedies in the US for example.

And they have nothing to do with accepting the blame being levelled at them by the likes of Frydenberg, Hanson, Leys, Morrison and Howard for the murderous acts of two terrorists. Blame that is being levelled for cynical political reasons.

I assume this is a satirical comment.

Because yes, this is the 'general agreement' amongst those seeking to make partisan political capital of the tragedy in Bondi. And using it as a platform to wreak revenge for her and her government's policy position on daring to join the rest of the international community in condemning the Israeli slaughter in Gaza and to provide justice for the Palestine people in terms of human rights, self determination and an end to the Israeli sanctioned illegal occupation of their lands.

Seeking justice for Palestine and holding the Netanyahu administration accountable for the ongoing tragedy that unfolded since the IDF invaded Gaza two years ago is NOT antisemitism, despite what the Murdoch press and certain right wing Israeli support organisations are alleging.

And on the front page criticism levied at Penny Wong led by the Liberal leadership for her not being able to cry on cue when the cameras are on her, I agree with what Mark Kenny had to say. That it has all the hallmarks of the public hounding of Lindy Chamberlain and her lack of emotion after the loss of her daughter. There's something more than a bit of misogynistic about it.

Exactly this.

I went to a mate's mum's funeral a few months back, and the first thing I said to him was "sorry about the loss of your mum". Strangely, he didn't feel the need to respond with "why, did you kill her?"

It is precisely these misinterpretations that are weaponised for political agendas. When Kevin Rudd finally said "sorry" to our indigenous folk on behalf of all Australians in 2008, in wasn't an admission of guilt of the rest of us. It was never about apportioning blame. It was a show of empathy and acknowledgement of such mistreatment.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

In addition to my suggestion above, it's already been flagged that a state royal commission isnt enough. Here a federal royal commission is suggested. That would allow the investigation of incidents in other states. I would suggest that expertise from overseas could be brought in.

Probably wouldn't ask anyone from Mossad to be part of it, seeing that they completely dropped the ball on any October 7th intel.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Like the islamophobia issue, the anti-settler issue brings very little political weight. If the gov't wants relief from the pressure, I'm making suggestions.

So far, the only suggestions that I have heard in the last few weeks are education for school kids and public servants, police etc and targeting muslim hot spots.

Minns says that he is considering the jewish community to have its own police force with guns etc. The current security force is already trained by the IDF in israel. I was just suggesting a further extension. A "joint venture" with Mossad would be similar in nature to Pine Gap.

and what has the islamophobia issue and the antisettler issue have in common? lack of interest by a complicit and frankly bribed australian media via the Israeli "tours" and grifts.

 

[Crankyhawk]

i'm trying to determine an acceptable resolution...I dont think most australians care about sovereignty.

status quo is acceptable.
there will always be random outlier attacks - then punish those who do those attacks.

 

[Crankyhawk]

This is peak “your mask is slipping”

i have no mask
i see no special value in Jewish person above being person
They are nothing special

 

[Crankyhawk]

well thats the reality of australia. you dont pander to someone unless there are reasons to pander. I think people are getting stuck on "fair" outcomes like a two-state solution for example, when the reality says that the israelis will not accept it and they are driving the agenda. Similar to here, the local jews are driving the political agenda. They want to feel safe and that means they want protesting for palestine stopped and any negative words stopped.

To give one example, the israeli prime minister who is charged with a genocide, calls up and scolds the Australian PM and the PM takes it meekly. Now, it might reflect the fact that the PM is more concerned about australian societal tensions, but it's not the first time that the PM has taken it meekly. Australian PMs do take behaviour by overseas leaders meekly on a regular basis, but mostly when the overseas leader represents economic or military power. In short, Australian PMs roll over when Australia might be affected economically or militarily in a negative way.

So I ask the question to myself, is the PM able to say no to local jewish community and it would appear not, for whatever reason. That is the reality. You can raise the australian flag and sing true blue a thousand times, but it wont change the circumstances.

So if we're on our bellies, I say that it's better to roll over and hope that we'll get a tickle and accept our position on the ladder. I'm getting sick of people protesting for equity and fairness etc when the people in control clearly wont do it.

Some issues can be worked out locally, but alleged antisemitism is a non-negotiable area. Furthermore, I think leftie australians need to accept that palestinians will have to find another home or die in and the west bank, because that decision has been made.

Personally, I'd be happier if the PM spelt out the reality but maybe we have to play the game.

this is almost looking to inspire the reader to hate the jewish people by claiming they have some dominance over australian politics
that is quite a dangerous thing to be asserting - that "we are on our bellies (to the Jewish people and Israel) and we should roll over" creates quite the image and emotively wanting to lash out against jews

 

[Crankyhawk]

Should we arrest people before they commit crimes?

is it yet a crime to collect plans to make IEDs? Uder terrorism laws it could be (theres not many legit reasons to collect that type of plan, maybe being an author, or working in counterterroism)

 

[ferball]

is it yet a crime to collect plans to make IEDs? Uder terrorism laws it could be (theres not many legit reasons to collect that type of plan, maybe being an author, or working in counterterroism)

Farmers make IEDs sometimes. There are still paddocks with huge stumps in them that would cost a lot of money to remove. Or twenty bucks worth of ingredients from Bunnings, Coles and Supercheap. Its bloody dangerous tho.

All you really need to make IEDs is high school chemistry and a bit knowledge about hobby electronics.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Any more terrorist activity is met with severe penalty

Are you talking about deterrence?

If so, in the case of the two radicalized ISIS sympathizers who shot up Bondi, they'd likely not give a shit about deterrence, martyrdom and all that.

As far as a deterrence for other individuals who hate but fear extreme punishment, yeah I agree.

I don't think there's enough deterrence for anti-social / life threatening behaviour. However previous punishment to someone else wouldn't have been a deterrent in this case.

 

[ElectricG]

I don't think there's enough deterrence for anti-social / life threatening behaviour. However previous punishment to someone else wouldn't have been a deterrent in this case.

I disagree. I think if they knew they were likely to be caught and imprisoned before they got to carry out the attack, they would be much less likely to attempt it.

 

[Gavin Excell]

While theres a political point scoring element in some quarters, the pressure on Albanese to have a RC into Bondi may be impossible now to avoid with the group letter from victims families being reported across all media