List Mgmt. 2025 List Management III 📃

[BluStreak]

Its not so much the height of these guys but the way they play. I agree with the other poster.

• Hayward is a lead up forward who has a high work rate and finds space.
• Moir is essentially the same or should be in time once he has matured.
• Williams does have some craft as a small forward but doesn't really play like a true small forward. He gets out then back a lot like a seagull (not a knock on him for what it's worth) and has some awareness with his spacing.
• Ainsworth is the closest we have to someone who plays like a genuine small forward and even then he prefers roaming higher up the ground than being that dangerous crumbing small.
• Evans likewise. Isn't a crumbing small. instead he plays his best when he pushes up and becomes that link player. We saw that late last year and it's what took his game up a level. Close to goals he's not a threat. Pushing up the ground he gets involved and uses it beautifully.
• Fogarty is a defensive small. Doesn't ever really crumb the pack at speed or cause any kind of headache for the opposition.
• Byrne.. it's far too early to tell but to me he looks like a midfielder or high half forward in a small forwards body. Looks a ripper though from what I've seen and heard.
• Mots is injured. But once again he rarely crumbs packs front and centre. He likewise to the other names mentioned likes pushing up and getting some midfield minutes.

In terms of Franky and Ben, If they play like Gryan Miers or Brad Close both outstanding smaller forwards who get up high and act as link men, then I am good with that.

 

[Bfevola]

Just my opinion guys from what i see. He has been around for a few years now. Dont see him as being fit enough yet. And that leeds me to believe what i believe.

He just acts like a lad. Which is ok. But not the type who i see having a long successful career. And i think that is why he didnt go higher in the draft.

Hope i can be proven wrong. As he is a very big talent.

 

[Doro]

Moir was drafted as a classy but laconic medium forward , low possession, higher impact type. Not sure why anyone at the club would expect anything else from him.

 

[kingkingston]

Just my opinion guys from what i see. He has been around for a few years now. Dont see him as being fit enough yet. And that leeds me to believe what i believe.

He just acts like a lad. Which is ok. But not the type who i see having a long successful career. And i think that is why he didnt go higher in the draft.

Hope i can be proven wrong. As he is a very big talent.

This is only his third year coming up. He is a lad and only 20 years old. There are 7 players drafted ahead of him who haven't played 1 game. including 4 top 20 picks.

 

[Blue By Blood]

In terms of Franky and Ben, If they play like Gryan Miers or Brad Close both outstanding smaller forwards who get up high and act as link men, then I am good with that.

100% as would I.. I'd be thrilled. But we'd still be missing the dangerous Stengle crumbing type forward. Whilst I think our forward line will be more unpredictable now, it's still a little out of balance in my opinion. I guess this will be a year of transition and trying to develop synergy, leading patterns etc.

 

[ParaBellum]

Oh well. At least Austin only handed him a 2 yr contract extension, not 4.

 

[The_BigFella]

I see Ashton as all talk and no action. Just wants to muck around with the boys. Has no professionalism. But heaps of talent. Not sure he will make it unless penny drops. But you either have natural work ethic or not.

Hope he wont be a wasted talent.

I’m not sure on this one. Ashton doesn’t strike me as the type of player who’s going to look outstanding on the training track. He feels more like someone who turns it on in front of big crowds and can in the future can take games away from teams. If he’s playing, we’ll obviously want to keep pushing him to build his tank and work rate, but with Charlie gone (someone exciting forward), it doesn’t hurt to have a talent like him, provided we’re set up properly and play to his strengths.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Wouldn’t say Derksen moves like Curnow, haha but I’m very happy we’re looking at him. I was hoping we’d go after him a while ago. For mine, he’d be a great addition, can play both ends, and is a good age. I’d be taking him and Lij.

Thought I'd move the Derksen discussion over here from the training report.

Reckon he's very unlucky not to be on an AFL list currently. Once Leek Aleer got dudded by the Stains during the trade period, GWS offered him a new contract, and Derksen subsequently got squeezed out despite them holding him to his contract the previous year when he wanted to be traded to the Demons.

And this year Melbourne subsequently backflipped on their 'interest' once they couldn't offload a contracted May.

Could be an astute pick up as an SSP along with Lij.

C4[2]Yo`DooR mentioned that there may be another from NT who we could be looking at - most likely Taj Murray - who could also be a handy addition as a forward/ruck. He'd be more of a project/development player similar to other later selections from this year's draft - but essentially a free throw at the stumps with the second list spot being opened up.

 

[Crippa#9]

It was interesting answer during one of those summer sessions vids - when asked what he was hoping for next he just responded along the lines “more of the same”… granted it’s just a club vid but didn’t come across as having a whole lot of drive

I fear he’s going to simply be another Corey Durdin. Talented and more than capable at the level but just doesn’t impact at anywhere near the rate their talent justifies.

Is that just personal workrate / willingness OR yet another small/medium forward not played to their strengths under Voss’s ‘defence first’ forward line regime (instincts coached out of them).

 

[Benaly28]

Moir will be fine.As long as he competes and poles on pressure inside 50 and snags 1-2 goals a game.

 

[Soapy V]

Moir will be fine.As long as he competes and poles on pressure inside 50 and snags 1-2 goals a game.

Then I think he has been wasted. If anyone has seen him play around the ball, it's obvious he should be doing more work in that area. He does things most mids can't and brings things we desperately need. IMO just playing deep all the time is a career killer

I have seen it so many times. Coaches "pigeon hole" players and they never become what they could be

 

[gbatman]

I see Moir as a genuine half forward who has abilities where he should be able to play as a deeper option. If we are pushing those abilities fairly hard then that's good. It will lead to him being a player who plays deep forward and goes into the middle as a rotation but also as a half forward rotation as well. That will be really valuable for us.

 

[JustOneTime]

Moir is a conundrum for me. Why? I cant put my finger on it.

Normally i feel like i can see it in players one way or another but Moir has me stumped. I don't know how he is going to turn out.

I tend to feel more negatively because there isnt something that makes me go YES. There isnt anything to say no either but it is the lack of the yes stuff i think prevails.

As a result i dont have him in my starting team right now with Kemp/Hayward ahead of him.

 

[morningbrown]

Are we talking about the same Ashton Moir who has played 11 games in one of the worst forward lines in the comp? I'm a pessimist but geez settle down he will be fine.

 

[Jatz]

We've kind of already lived this with Troy Menzel

Troy Menzel

Age

31

Ht

187cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.0

2star

K

6.4

3star

HB

2.5

2star

M

3.2

3star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.6

5star

haven't we? I hope for Ashton's sake, it's just talk. I've no doubt he'll make our team better.

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

Moir is a conundrum for me. Why? I cant put my finger on it.

Normally i feel like i can see it in players one way or another but Moir has me stumped. I don't know how he is going to turn out.

I tend to feel more negatively because there isnt something that makes me go YES. There isnt anything to say no either but it is the lack of the yes stuff i think prevails.

As a result i dont have him in my starting team right now with Kemp/Hayward ahead of him.

I was at his second game against the Saints - very small sample size but I certainly felt he had it then. The sound the ball made when it hit his hands, the energy that something might happen pretty much every time he went to the ball - there was definitely something about him that made you think he could eb something special

 

[Juddernaut08]

Moir is a conundrum for me. Why? I cant put my finger on it.

Normally i feel like i can see it in players one way or another but Moir has me stumped. I don't know how he is going to turn out.

I tend to feel more negatively because there isnt something that makes me go YES. There isnt anything to say no either but it is the lack of the yes stuff i think prevails.

As a result i dont have him in my starting team right now with Kemp/Hayward ahead of him.

can't agree here. for me it's the opposite. he definitely has things that make me go YES...but also things like his tank and going missing that makes me go NO.

It's not that he's meh overall.

 

[Michael Jezz]

I'd classify HOK, Harry and Kemp as tall forwards. The rest are mid to small forwards are waaaay better than we've had in a long time even with Motlop out.

Hayward
Williams
Ainsworth
Evans
E Hollands
Moir
Cottrell
Byrne
Ison
Young
Jagga (rotate mid/HF)

I don't think that is the worst in the league. Kemp and H will take 2 spots in the forward line. That leaves 4 spots. Hayward and Ainsworth are locks for 2. EH and Evans will start on the other 2 with Moir pushing for a spot on the bench assuming williams is now a defender. Hard to see how that is the worst in the league.

Fwd line is
Ainsworth Mckay Heyward
Evans HOK Moir/Kemp. It is a toss up

williams looks like going back
Byrne or Young may get a bench spot
Fogarty- depth player
Ison- half season in the VFL groomed to take the Moir/Kemp spot
Cotrell and Hollands- Feels like they may may swing through High Half Fwd but not permanent

 

[ctwenty1]

gee we write off our kids early, whether its a "lack of skill" argument, or "lack of desire" argument

 

[ctwenty1]

Fwd line is
Ainsworth Mckay Heyward
Evans HOK Moir/Kemp. It is a toss up

williams looks like going back
Byrne or Young may get a bench spot
Fogarty- depth player
Ison- half season in the VFL groomed to take the Moir/Kemp spot
Cotrell and Hollands- Feels like they may may swing through High Half Fwd but not permanent

What was interesting in the match sim was Fogarty (in the blue team) being left deep at FF, not roaming up the ground

On Ison, I await to see his form in the VFL. I'd be shocke dif he is displavcing either Moir or Kemp, or Evans for that matter

 

[JimmyRabbit49]

can't agree here. for me it's the opposite. he definitely has things that make me go YES...but also things like his tank and going missing that makes me go NO.

It's not that he's meh overall.

Tank and going missing go hand in hand - another full pre-season should go a long way to fixing that

 

[KJP7]

He's definitely got 'it'. With the way our forward line is likely to structure up, I can easily see him becoming a mid. He's clean, uses it well and loves the moment.

I know we fall in love with our contested style of game but I think we urgently need to see some X-factor through the middle this year. We flirted with it late last year, but spells from players like Jagga, Moir, Lij, Florent and Ainsworth could be the ingredients we need to improve our ball use out of the middle.

I'd try and protect Walsh and pop him on a wing with Carroll/ Ollie.

I don't think we can fix our kicking and skills over one preseason, so instead, I think we need plenty of runners who can create space and movement.

 

[gbatman]

Moir will go well when he is in a team where he is not focused on by the defence. In the AFL side with McKay, O'Keeffe, Kemp, Hayward, Ainsworth etc he's going to be on someone shorter and not as strong defensively. The challenge will be to position well and become a target more often. He doesn't have to kick 3 goals plus a game or get 20 disposals. He just needs to contribute, draw a man and make the most of his opportunities and contribute to a well functioning forward line.

Our forward line is not about how many goals Curnow and McKay kick anymore. It's about how many goals we score as a group and how we do that is by spreading the defence, force defenders to stick with their man due to the forwards being genuine threats. Moir is a big part of that, can't leave him alone, he will mark it or he will crumb it. It's about not having forwards defenders can leave alone, which opens that game right up. Its also about making sure our ball carriers have options and multiple options when we get going forward. He will contribute to this.

This means that there will be times Moir doesn't get the ball, or he goes missing because he has kicked a few and his man has had to lock down on him. But that opens the door up for other forwards. That is how he will contribute to a functioning forwardline. Moirs man is locking down hard on him keeping him quiet instead of doubleteaming McKay or Kemp and then they kick 5. That sort of thing. And because of that we win games.

 

[Soapy V]

What was interesting in the match sim was Fogarty (in the blue team) being left deep at FF, not roaming up the ground

On Ison, I await to see his form in the VFL. I'd be shocke dif he is displavcing either Moir or Kemp, or Evans for that matter

Won't be long before Ison is playing Seniors. He's better than those you mentioned

 

[Crippa#9]

gee we write off our kids early, whether its a "lack of skill" argument, or "lack of desire" argument

Who’s writing him off?!

Just having a frank debate as to his ability to impact and what position he might be best suited to. I think everyone is convinced of his talent.