News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[Simon_Nesbit]

Today's version of "fair" (as replacing "picks" with "points" and a true bidding system that will never happen):

Clubs can hold unlimited "Future" picks - but for the current draft are limited to one selection per list vacancy at all times.

Instead of a getting a "discount" to match, clubs get a "premium" on points value for ONE matching pick.
They must use their next draft pick (can live trade to obtain it) - which must be within 18 selections (one entire round) of the bid.
If a points shortfall remains, they can sacrifice as many other picks (in draft order) as they have list spots available.
If they don't have enough points after exhausting their draft allocation (plus any live trades from future picks) - they miss out on the player.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Ruh Roh.... now the nepo babies are turning on each other.

"don't penalise us because the Lions abuse the system" is what Matthews comments translate as.

 

[GC2015]

Ruh Roh.... now the nepo babies are turning on each other.

"don't penalise us because the Lions abuse the system" is what Matthews comments translate as.

I think it's fair to point out that there is an inequality between the two newest northern clubs and the two oldest northern clubs (which is priority access to F/S prospects) and that realistically won't be addressed for another decade or so. In fact, I think Dave Matthews should've pointed out that the inequality is really between the 2 newest exapansion clubs and the other 16 AFL clubs. The AFL obviously learned from this inequality and have given Tasmania F/S access to juniors with fathers who come from the Apple Isle and played over 100 AFL games. In the past, we've seen the GWS & GC academies justified this by pointing to the inequality and I think the big mistake was made around 10 years ago when the AFL made a kneejerk decision to remove Albury/Murray from the Giants' academy zone.

Without that area of NSW in GWS's academy, their zone is considerably weaker and that has been proven to be true over the last 10 years with only 2 priority first round picks being produced by GWS's academy in the last decade (Tom Green & Harry Rowston). However, if the Giants still had access to the Albury/Murray region of NSW then they would've had priority access to at least 4 more first round picks (Jarrod Brander, Ely Smith, Connor O'Sullivan & Phoenix Gothard) so that would've put them more in line with Brisbane (W.Ashcroft, L.Ashcroft, Fletcher, Annable, Coleman & Marshall) in terms of first round F/S + NA priority access over the last decade.

So I don't think the answer is to exclude Western Sydney talent from the draft. I think the answer is to give the Giants access to the Albury/Murray region of NSW again and get that steady flow of first round talent coming through their academy again. With the new draft bid matching rules coming into play this year that will essentially force clubs to give up a fair bit in order to maintain access to the high end draft talent coming out of their academy or through the F/S rule, we should see a far more equitable situation playing out than what we saw 10 years ago. So let's say two high end Albury talents like 2016 pick 5 Will Settferfield & 2016 pick 16 Todd Marshall come through GWS's academy this year, then the Giants will be required to give up some serious talent in order to secure the 4 first round picks required to match those bids. So that encourages the concept of talent being shared around the league when a club happens to get lucky with their priority access AND it gives GWS the flow of new high end talent that they need to realistically stay competitive in the challenging market that is Western Sydney.

The new draft rules should force all priority access around the league to be far more equitable and the idea of hoarding talent will be near impossible.

 

[Purple Suit]

I think it's fair to point out that there is an inequality between the two newest northern clubs and the two oldest northern clubs (which is priority access to F/S prospects) and that realistically won't be addressed for another decade or so. In fact, I think Dave Matthews should've pointed out that the inequality is really between the 2 newest exapansion clubs and the other 16 AFL clubs. The AFL obviously learned from this inequality and have given Tasmania F/S access to juniors with fathers who come from the Apple Isle and played over 100 AFL games. In the past, we've seen the GWS & GC academies justified this by pointing to the inequality and I think the big mistake was made around 10 years ago when the AFL made a kneejerk decision to remove Albury/Murray from the Giants' academy zone.

Without that area of NSW in GWS's academy, their zone is considerably weaker and that has been proven to be true over the last 10 years with only 2 priority first round picks being produced by GWS's academy in the last decade (Tom Green & Harry Rowston). However, if the Giants still had access to the Albury/Murray region of NSW then they would've had priority access to at least 4 more first round picks (Jarrod Brander, Ely Smith, Connor O'Sullivan & Phoenix Gothard) so that would've put them more in line with Brisbane (W.Ashcroft, L.Ashcroft, Fletcher, Annable, Coleman & Marshall) in terms of first round F/S + NA priority access over the last decade.

So I don't think the answer is to exclude Western Sydney talent from the draft. I think the answer is to give the Giants access to the Albury/Murray region of NSW again and get that steady flow of first round talent coming through their academy again. With the new draft bid matching rules coming into play this year that will essentially force clubs to give up a fair bit in order to maintain access to the high end draft talent coming out of their academy or through the F/S rule, we should see a far more equitable situation playing out than what we saw 10 years ago. So let's say two high end Albury talents like 2016 pick 5 Will Settferfield & 2016 pick 16 Todd Marshall come through GWS's academy this year, then the Giants will be required to give up some serious talent in order to secure the 4 first round picks required to match those bids. So that encourages the concept of talent being shared around the league when a club happens to get lucky with their priority access AND it gives GWS the flow of new high end talent that they need to realistically stay competitive in the challenging market that is Western Sydney.

The new draft rules should force all priority access to be far more equitable around the league.

GC & GWS miss out on F/S access but they also avoided free agency poaching for 8 years. Not that it saved them from losing talent but that natural occurs if there is too much and the wins aren't there.

Freo got no F/S access, the worst concessions and now when we drag ourselves out of the dirt with no help to contend, the AFL keeps giving the Northern clubs free 1st round draft picks like they are Oprah Winfrey. You have a 1st rounder, you have a first rounder, have another first rounder.....

Priority access is the problem.

 

[GC2015]

GC & GWS miss out on F/S access but they also avoided free agency poaching for 8 years. Not that it saved them from losing talent but that natural occurs if there is too much and the wins aren't there.

Freo got no F/S access, the worst concessions and now when we drag ourselves out of the dirt with no help to contend, the AFL keeps giving the Northern clubs free 1st round draft picks like they are Oprah Winfrey. You have a 1st rounder, you have a first rounder, have another first rounder.....

Priority access is the problem.

Yeah - our players didn't need to be free agents in order for us to lose them. The losing of high end talent began immediately with pick 7 Josh Caddy wanting to leave the Suns in our first year (which happened a year later when his rookie deal ended) and pick 3 Dom Tyson + pick 13 Taylor Adams negoatiating to depart the Giants after one year in Western Sydney because their rookie deals were ending. It continued to happen virtually every year for both clubs from that point onwards. Imagine drafting pick 1 Tom Boyd believing he is the future of our club for the next 10+ years and he tells you 12 months later that he wants out! It's pretty difficult to build a finals worthy team if a lot of high end talent keeps wanting to leave and you have no way to counter it by recruiting high end players that want to be there because they are from the area.

I've only seen it happen once in the 15 years that Gold Coast or GWS have been in the league and that was when Lachie Weller requested a trade to the Suns, but it's also important to point out that he was a product of the academy after spending several years in it so that connection was already there. The big takeaway with the Weller example is one homegrown top 15 talent requesting.a trade home every 15 years isn't going to cut it when your other high end talents from VIC, SA & WA are constantly requesting trades out of the club. It's simply not a model that's conducive to producing a team that's capable of consistent competitiveness in this league and you get stuck in that cycle of bottoming out to draft high end picks, losing them a few years later because they want to go home/to a better team and then bottoming out again to draft more high end picks, only to have a lot of them also walk out a few years. History shows us that northern academy graduates are far more likely to stay with high end draft examples like Harris Andrews/Eric Hipwood, Isaac Heeney/Callum Mills, Harry Himmelberg/Tom Green all being long-term servants at their clubs.

So although free agency wasn't the issue at the start, when free agency did hit for the new northern clubs, it hit really hard at the Suns in 2018 as we lost our two captains and that sent us into a downward spiral towards the wooden spoon in 2019. Everyone knows GWS lost plenty of talent in their initial years in the AFL and the constant loss of players continued when free agency hit with several of their original high end draft picks choosing to depart like Patton and Tomlinson, but their run of luck with academy access in the years prior enabled them to offset those losses and maintain competitiveness on field instead of spiralling down like the Suns.

Also, Fremantle did get F/S access upon entry into the AFL. It's how they were able to draft Brett Peake as an F/S pick in 2003. Same with West Coast and that netted them Ben Cousins + Ashley McIntosh. FWIW, after decades of mistakes, I think Fremantle have worked out the formula that's going to put them in a position to win a flag and it has a lot to do with targeting homegrown stars around the league like Bolton and Jackson who grew up in the area and feel a connection to it. This will always be an area that Fremantle can tap into from a recruitment perspective because footy in WA will continue to produce an excess of high end talent in that regard. Unfortunately, the northern teams don't have this opportunity because there simply isn't enough QLDers or NEWelshmen in the league for that to be possible, let alone high end talent from the northern states.

Maybe one day we'll get to a point where the northern academies aren't needed to give the northern teams a realistic chance of building a premiership team, but that day is definitely not today. However, any fears of northern teams (or any team for that matter) hoarding all the talent should be eased with the recently announced rule changes to draft bidding/matching. You'll see over the next two years that Port Adelaide are going to have a VERY difficult time trying to match bids for their 2 top 15 academy talents (predicted top 2 picks Cochrane & Pilot) + their 2 top 15 F/S talents (predicted top 15 picks Salopek & Rodan) in 2026 & 2027. To give you an idea of the mountain they will attempt to climb over the next 18 months - losing one of the best talents in the league in Zak Butters is probably only going to get them half way towards the picks they need to match those bids and that's if they play hard ball.

 

[Purple Suit]

Yeah - our players didn't need to be free agents in order for us to lose them. The losing of high end talent began immediately with pick 7 Josh Caddy wanting to leave the Suns in our first year (which happened a year later when his rookie deal ended) and pick 3 Dom Tyson + pick 13 Taylor Adams negoatiating to depart the Giants after one year in Western Sydney because their rookie deals were ending. It continued to happen virtually every year for both clubs from that point onwards. Imagine drafting pick 1 Tom Boyd believing he is the future of our club for the next 10+ years and he tells you 12 months later that he wants out! It's pretty difficult to build a finals worthy team if a lot of high end talent keeps wanting to leave and you have no way to counter it by recruiting high end players that want to be there because they are from the area.

I've only seen it happen once in the 15 years that Gold Coast or GWS have been in the league and that was when Lachie Weller requested a trade to the Suns, but it's also important to point out that he was a product of the academy after spending several years in it so that connection was already there. The big takeaway with the Weller example is one homegrown top 15 talent requesting.a trade home every 15 years isn't going to cut it when your other high end talents from VIC, SA & WA are constantly requesting trades out of the club. It's simply not a model that's conducive to producing a team that's capable of consistent competitiveness in this league and you get stuck in that cycle of bottoming out to draft high end picks, losing them a few years later because they want to go home/to a better team and then bottoming out again to draft more high end picks, only to have a lot of them also walk out a few years. History shows us that northern academy graduates are far more likely to stay with high end draft examples like Harris Andrews/Eric Hipwood, Isaac Heeney/Callum Mills, Harry Himmelberg/Tom Green all being long-term servants at their clubs.

So although free agency wasn't the issue at the start, when free agency did hit for the new northern clubs, it hit really hard at the Suns in 2018 as we lost our two captains and that sent us into a downward spiral towards the wooden spoon in 2019. Everyone knows GWS lost plenty of talent in their initial years in the AFL and the constant loss of players continued when free agency hit with several of their original high end draft picks choosing to depart like Patton and Tomlinson, but their run of luck with academy access in the years prior enabled them to offset those losses and maintain competitiveness on field instead of spiralling down like the Suns.

Also, Fremantle did get F/S access upon entry into the AFL. It's how they were able to draft Brett Peake as an F/S pick in 2003. Same with West Coast and that netted them Ben Cousins + Ashley McIntosh. FWIW, after decades of mistakes, I think Fremantle have worked out the formula that's going to put them in a position to win a flag and it has a lot to do with targeting homegrown stars around the league like Bolton and Jackson who grew up in the area and feel a connection to it. This will always be an area that Fremantle can tap into from a recruitment perspective because footy in WA will continue to produce an excess of high end talent in that regard. Unfortunately, the northern teams don't have this opportunity because there simply isn't enough QLDers or NEWelshmen in the league for that to be possible, let alone high end talent from the northern states.

Maybe one day we'll get to a point where the northern academies aren't needed to give the northern teams a realistic chance of building a premiership team, but that day is definitely not today. However, any fears of northern teams (or any team for that matter) hoarding all the talent should be eased with the recently announced rule changes to draft bidding/matching. You'll see over the next two years that Port Adelaide are going to have a VERY difficult time trying to match bids for their 2 top 15 academy talents (predicted top 2 picks Cochrane & Pilot) + their 2 top 15 F/S talents (predicted top 15 picks Salopek & Rodan) in 2026 & 2027. To give you an idea of the mountain they will attempt to climb over the next 18 months - losing one of the best talents in the league in Zak Butters is probably only going to get them half way towards the picks they need to match those bids and that's if they play hard ball.

Brisbane have won two flags in a row while poaching interstate players left right and centre. All because they have free young talent walking in thru f/s and academy selections. Better give them more concession so they have a chance at building that premiership team.

Meanwhile we lost more players than anybody during the 2016-2022 period including 2 Brownlows but what assistance do we get? Nothing, just more free stuff to the competition who don’t need it.

I don’t want anything either, just a level playing field and the Northern clubs to accept their asterisks.

 

[GC2015]

Brisbane have won two flags in a row while poaching interstate players left right and centre. All because they have free young talent walking in thru f/s and academy selections. Better give them more concession so they have a chance at building that premiership team.

Meanwhile we lost more players than anybody during the 2016-2022 period including 2 Brownlows but what assistance do we get? Nothing, just more free stuff to the competition who don’t need it.

I don’t want anything either, just a level playing field and the Northern clubs to accept their asterisks.

As is the case with any club, recruiting becomes easier when you're a genuine top 4 contender and we've seen that with Brisbane's acquisitions in recent years including Daniher, Dunkley, Allen, Draper etc. Given the recently announced rule changes to the draft, the argument that should be made is Brisbane, having just come off a prelim showing in the 2022 finals series, shouldn't have been able to land Josh Dunkley, Jack Gunston, Will Ashcroft and Jaspa Fletcher so easily in the same off season without having to give up significantly more than they did. That one off season arguably tipped them over the edge in terms of becoming a genuine premiership favourite and they've gone on to make three GFs since then with two cups added to the trophy cabinet.

The Lions really only lost Dan McStay to free agency in that 2022 off season and even that only netted them a second round pick. I think we can all agree that's just not enough going out for what was coming in, especially for a team that had just made a preliminary final. If it were to occur this year, Brisbane would've probably needed to accumulate 6 first round picks (1/3 of the total first round picks) for it to be possible and that seems very unlikely without having to give up a really good player like Zac Bailey or Cam Rayner. So that's essentially what we should see in the future with these new rules if a team wants to go all out with trades/drafting in one off season.

While it is true that Fremantle has lost significant talent in the last decade, they've also been able to bring in a fair bit of talent. This is what I was referring to in my last post about Fremantle coming to the realisation that prioritising high end WA talent is more likely to result in better long-term outcomes for the club. Recruiting WA boys like Bolton, Jackson and Clark from other clubs and drafting first round WA prospects like Amiss is a good recruiting strategy for Freo that should be the catalyst for them to become genuine premiership contenders. Plus, I think if you guys had succeeded in your pursuit to bring Kozzy Pickett back to WA then you'd definitely be a top 4 team this year. Probably just one A grader shy of really contending IMO and Kozzy probably would've been the guy to tip you over that edge.

Of course it's not foolproof and there will be those who choose to leave like Logue and Hill, but there should be more staying than leaving when it comes to the WA boys. Like I suggested before, this really isn't a strategy that the northern teams can adopt because there isn't an excess of QLD and/or NSW talent around the league to make that possible. Hopefully we can get to that point one day because I'd love to see more Queenslanders in the league and more opportunities for success at the trade table, particularly while the on field results aren't so great because that seems to be a real issue when the time comes to rebuild a list in the northern states.

Also, I think you're wasting your time with this dream of a 'level playing field' at the draft. It's never going to happen and the draft was never intended to be fair in the first place. The draft was introduced as an equalisation tool because there was a Victorian that took the league to the supreme court due to the fact that he didn't want to play football in Sydney and the AFL knew they were going to have a hard time convincing players to head north to NSW back in the 80s. Retention issues in the northern states were the catalyst for the modern version of the draft that was introduced in the late 80s and that concern is still very real to this day. It's not changing any time soon.

 

[briztoon]

Brisbane have won two flags in a row while poaching interstate players left right and centre. All because they have free young talent walking in thru f/s and academy selections. Better give them more concession so they have a chance at building that premiership team.

Poaching!!! If other clubs fixed their culture, half the players we traded in, wouldn’t have left their original club.

It’s well known that Neale had “issues” with Ross Lyon and how he treated some players. Plus there were rumours about his rocky relationship with Nat Fyfe.

Both Dunkley and Daniher tried to get out of their original clubs the year before coming to us.

West Coast sold off their captain for pick 2, after offering him a low ball contract the offseason before.

Meanwhile we lost more players than anybody during the 2016-2022 period including 2 Brownlows but what assistance do we get? Nothing, just more free stuff to the competition who don’t need it.

I reckon Gold Coast lost way more players than you in that period.

Off the top of my head, Gary Ablett, Jaegar O’Meara, Dion Prestia, Adam Saad, Tom Lynch, Stephen May, Jarryd Lyons, Cal Ah Chee, and Izak Rankine.

Who ever you lost, doesn’t even come close, in a million years, to what GC have lost.

And I’d be pretty confident that GWS has lost somewhat similar.

Then you can look at Brisbane and who we lost from 2013 to 2018.

Fix your internal issues, and retention tends to become less of a problem.

I don’t want anything either, just a level playing field and the Northern clubs to accept their asterisks.

And I have no problem with a level playing field.

 

[j-top]

Why don’t we, as football fans, as fans of the history of the game, just enjoy and be happy for teams drafting their FS rather than demonising it with overly restrictive rules.

Think there should be a different set of criteria for FS to keep this tradition alive as it is more pot luck that a player at your club gun football kids

 

[Purple Suit]

Poaching!!! If other clubs fixed their culture, half the players we traded in, wouldn’t have left their original club.

It’s well known that Neale had “issues” with Ross Lyon and how he treated some players. Plus there were rumours about his rocky relationship with Nat Fyfe.

Both Dunkley and Daniher tried to get out of their original clubs the year before coming to us.

West Coast sold off their captain for pick 2, after offering him a low ball contract the offseason before.

I reckon Gold Coast lost way more players than you in that period.

Off the top of my head, Gary Ablett, Jaegar O’Meara, Dion Prestia, Adam Saad, Tom Lynch, Stephen May, Jarryd Lyons, Cal Ah Chee, and Izak Rankine.

Who ever you lost, doesn’t even come close, in a million years, to what GC have lost.

And I’d be pretty confident that GWS has lost somewhat similar.

Then you can look at Brisbane and who we lost from 2013 to 2018.

Fix your internal issues, and retention tends to become less of a problem.

And I have no problem with a level playing field.

I checked, Gold Coast didn't lose more than us.

Going off trades out/Free agents only as we're not counting delistings etc.

GC - Omera, Prestia, Ablett, Matera, Saad, Hall, Kolodjash, May, Scrimshaw, Lynch, Ah Chee, Wright, Rankine = 13

I didn't count Bowes or Brodie as they were salary dumps.

Freo - Mayne, Balic, Crozier, Weller, Neale, Hill, Langdon, Hogan, Cerra, Acres, Lobb, Louge, Meek, Tucker = 14

Pretty similar lists really except Ablett past it compared to Neale in his prime. Hogan was also damaged goods but ended up fine. Hill was a huge contract and Weller was a huge price.

GC lost players in their early years since they had too much talent. You can't play them all so they leave for opportunity. The same will happen again soon and there will be some very good players emerging elsewhere.

The point is, retention isn't really an issue that academies need to fix if the AFL does nothing about retention issues at other clubs. It's tough luck normally but instead GC get a host of top up picks and now that they are good, they continue to get 4 first rounders plus a former Pick 2 gun and a former Pick 1 troubled gun in one draft period.

That isn't a level playing field. We finished lower on the ladder, had our normal picks and had to use most of it to get 1 player in who is hardly a world beater and picked up a kid at pick 25. The system is far from level, it's still completely broken.

 

[mpal6]

I checked, Gold Coast didn't lose more than us.

Going off trades out/Free agents only as we're not counting delistings etc.

GC - Omera, Prestia, Ablett, Matera, Saad, Hall, Kolodjash, May, Scrimshaw, Lynch, Ah Chee, Wright, Rankine = 13

I didn't count Bowes or Brodie as they were salary dumps.

Freo - Mayne, Balic, Crozier, Weller, Neale, Hill, Langdon, Hogan, Cerra, Acres, Lobb, Louge, Meek, Tucker = 14

Pretty similar lists really except Ablett past it compared to Neale in his prime. Hogan was also damaged goods but ended up fine. Hill was a huge contract and Weller was a huge price.

GC lost players in their early years since they had too much talent. You can't play them all so they leave for opportunity. The same will happen again soon and there will be some very good players emerging elsewhere.

The point is, retention isn't really an issue that academies need to fix if the AFL does nothing about retention issues at other clubs. It's tough luck normally but instead GC get a host of top up picks and now that they are good, they continue to get 4 first rounders plus a former Pick 2 gun and a former Pick 1 troubled gun in one draft period.

That isn't a level playing field. We finished lower on the ladder, had our normal picks and had to use most of it to get 1 player in who is hardly a world beater and picked up a kid at pick 25. The system is far from level, it's still completely broken.

For 2022 you're missing Jack Bowes - Geelong and Josh Corbett - Fremantle. Bowes was still a trade and a player who chose to leave, not sure how we can exclude it.

 

[Purple Suit]

For 2022 you're missing Jack Bowes - Geelong and Josh Corbett - Fremantle. Bowes was still a trade and a player who chose to leave, not sure how we can exclude it.

I missed Corbett but clearly stated that Bowes & Brodie were salary dumps. They had to pay clubs to take them because they needed them gone.

 

[sydney_gws]

Yeah - our players didn't need to be free agents in order for us to lose them. The losing of high end talent began immediately with pick 7 Josh Caddy wanting to leave the Suns in our first year (which happened a year later when his rookie deal ended) and pick 3 Dom Tyson + pick 13 Taylor Adams negoatiating to depart the Giants after one year in Western Sydney because their rookie deals were ending. It continued to happen virtually every year for both clubs from that point onwards. Imagine drafting pick 1 Tom Boyd believing he is the future of our club for the next 10+ years and he tells you 12 months later that he wants out! It's pretty difficult to build a finals worthy team if a lot of high end talent keeps wanting to leave and you have no way to counter it by recruiting high end players that want to be there because they are from the area.

I've only seen it happen once in the 15 years that Gold Coast or GWS have been in the league and that was when Lachie Weller requested a trade to the Suns, but it's also important to point out that he was a product of the academy after spending several years in it so that connection was already there. The big takeaway with the Weller example is one homegrown top 15 talent requesting.a trade home every 15 years isn't going to cut it when your other high end talents from VIC, SA & WA are constantly requesting trades out of the club. It's simply not a model that's conducive to producing a team that's capable of consistent competitiveness in this league and you get stuck in that cycle of bottoming out to draft high end picks, losing them a few years later because they want to go home/to a better team and then bottoming out again to draft more high end picks, only to have a lot of them also walk out a few years. History shows us that northern academy graduates are far more likely to stay with high end draft examples like Harris Andrews/Eric Hipwood, Isaac Heeney/Callum Mills, Harry Himmelberg/Tom Green all being long-term servants at their clubs.

So although free agency wasn't the issue at the start, when free agency did hit for the new northern clubs, it hit really hard at the Suns in 2018 as we lost our two captains and that sent us into a downward spiral towards the wooden spoon in 2019. Everyone knows GWS lost plenty of talent in their initial years in the AFL and the constant loss of players continued when free agency hit with several of their original high end draft picks choosing to depart like Patton and Tomlinson, but their run of luck with academy access in the years prior enabled them to offset those losses and maintain competitiveness on field instead of spiralling down like the Suns.

Also, Fremantle did get F/S access upon entry into the AFL. It's how they were able to draft Brett Peake as an F/S pick in 2003. Same with West Coast and that netted them Ben Cousins + Ashley McIntosh. FWIW, after decades of mistakes, I think Fremantle have worked out the formula that's going to put them in a position to win a flag and it has a lot to do with targeting homegrown stars around the league like Bolton and Jackson who grew up in the area and feel a connection to it. This will always be an area that Fremantle can tap into from a recruitment perspective because footy in WA will continue to produce an excess of high end talent in that regard. Unfortunately, the northern teams don't have this opportunity because there simply isn't enough QLDers or NEWelshmen in the league for that to be possible, let alone high end talent from the northern states.

Maybe one day we'll get to a point where the northern academies aren't needed to give the northern teams a realistic chance of building a premiership team, but that day is definitely not today. However, any fears of northern teams (or any team for that matter) hoarding all the talent should be eased with the recently announced rule changes to draft bidding/matching. You'll see over the next two years that Port Adelaide are going to have a VERY difficult time trying to match bids for their 2 top 15 academy talents (predicted top 2 picks Cochrane & Pilot) + their 2 top 15 F/S talents (predicted top 15 picks Salopek & Rodan) in 2026 & 2027. To give you an idea of the mountain they will attempt to climb over the next 18 months - losing one of the best talents in the league in Zak Butters is probably only going to get them half way towards the picks they need to match those bids and that's if they play hard ball.

I think answer is 2 picks to match, but allow 3 twice in a 10 year period.

 

[Tom14]

You’ll have the same issue that you’re complaining about under your proposal tho. The only difference being Port will be on the benefit side of the ledger (and I’m not against port getting theirs now that their time has come).

I am #pullupthatladder

 

[Tom14]

Brisbane have won two flags in a row while poaching interstate players left right and centre. All because they have free young talent walking in thru f/s and academy selections. Better give them more concession so they have a chance at building that premiership team.

Meanwhile we lost more players than anybody during the 2016-2022 period including 2 Brownlows but what assistance do we get? Nothing, just more free stuff to the competition who don’t need it.

I don’t want anything either, just a level playing field and the Northern clubs to accept their asterisks.

I proudly accept the asterisk. I wasn't there on grand final day going "Gee, I better temper my celebration because I have to remember that my club constucted its list aggressively under the current rules."

Every flag for like 20 years has some kind of asterisk. We don't have an even competition noting the makeup of players, financial distribution, fixturing (both in terms of travel, home ground advantage and access to prime time).

It is what it is. You have to adapt to your club's situation. Adjusting the rules to correct for an imbalance is fine and clubs should have to pay more.

 

[briztoon]

I checked, Gold Coast didn't lose more than us.

Going off trades out/Free agents only as we're not counting delistings etc.

GC - Omera, Prestia, Ablett, Matera, Saad, Hall, Kolodjash, May, Scrimshaw, Lynch, Ah Chee, Wright, Rankine = 13

I didn't count Bowes or Brodie as they were salary dumps.

Freo - Mayne, Balic, Crozier, Weller, Neale, Hill, Langdon, Hogan, Cerra, Acres, Lobb, Louge, Meek, Tucker = 14

Pretty similar lists really

Hahahaha, not similar at all in terms of draft capital (used to draft the kids in) and quality of players.

I give you Neale, Hill and Weller, as equal quality, but every other player Freo lost is of lesser quality compared to 12 of the players GC lost. Kolodjasni was compassionate trade, due to concussion reasons.

Also, didn't you trade Hogan and Lobb in? They weren't drafted to Freo.

except Ablett past it compared to Neale in his prime. Hogan was also damaged goods but ended up fine. Hill was a huge contract and Weller was a huge price.

GC lost players in their early years since they had too much talent. You can't play them all so they leave for opportunity. The same will happen again soon and there will be some very good players emerging elsewhere.

The point is, retention isn't really an issue that academies need to fix if the AFL does nothing about retention issues at other clubs. It's tough luck normally but instead GC get a host of top up picks and now that they are good, they continue to get 4 first rounders plus a former Pick 2 gun and a former Pick 1 troubled gun in one draft period.

That isn't a level playing field. We finished lower on the ladder, had our normal picks and had to use most of it to get 1 player in who is hardly a world beater and picked up a kid at pick 25. The system is far from level, it's still completely broken.

 

[SC_Power]

Maybe one day we'll get to a point where the northern academies aren't needed to give the northern teams a realistic chance of building a premiership team, but that day is definitely not today. However, any fears of northern teams (or any team for that matter) hoarding all the talent should be eased with the recently announced rule changes to draft bidding/matching. You'll see over the next two years that Port Adelaide are going to have a VERY difficult time trying to match bids for their 2 top 15 academy talents (predicted top 2 picks Cochrane & Pilot) + their 2 top 15 F/S talents (predicted top 15 picks Salopek & Rodan) in 2026 & 2027. To give you an idea of the mountain they will attempt to climb over the next 18 months - losing one of the best talents in the league in Zak Butters is probably only going to get them half way towards the picks they need to match those bids and that's if they play hard ball.

That Port Adelaide, with 2 years of draft picks and (if) losing Zak Butters isn’t enough to secure these players, after all the goings on in this area that has gone through the last 10-15 years, is just an appalling look for the competition.

And yes, that’s my bias talking AND my rationale brain talking.

 

[Tom14]

Ruh Roh.... now the nepo babies are turning on each other.

"don't penalise us because the Lions abuse the system" is what Matthews comments translate as.

Each Northern academy's top 20 academy picks since they were introduced:

Gold Coast: 9

GWS: 7

Sydney: 5

Lions: 3* (this includes Jaspa Fletcher who was actually selected as a father son).

If anything the LIONS are the ones who should get special access and the others lose it!

Even if you add in father sons we've only had 5 top 20 picks from matching bids total.

 

[Elixuh]

Each Northern academy's top 20 academy picks since they were introduced:

Gold Coast: 9

GWS: 7

Sydney: 5

Lions: 3* (this includes Jaspa Fletcher who was actually selected as a father son).

If anything the LIONS are the ones who should get special access and the others lose it!

Even if you add in father sons we've only had 5 top 20 picks from matching bids total.

Either pull up the ladder or give us more advantageous academy terms to offset our underperforming academy relative to our peers. The choice is yours.

 

[Tom14]

Either pull up the ladder or give us more advantageous academy terms to offset our underperforming academy relative to our peers. The choice is yours.

We’re battlers fighting the good fight in qld.

A million more free first rounders is what we deserve.

 

[Tom14]

Hahahaha, not similar at all in terms of draft capital (used to draft the kids in) and quality of players.

I give you Neale, Hill and Weller, as equal quality, but every other player Freo lost is of lesser quality compared to 12 of the players GC lost. Kolodjasni was compassionate trade, due to concussion reasons.

Also, didn't you trade Hogan and Lobb in? They weren't drafted to Freo.

Weller doesn’t count, they extorted Gold Coast into getting a way better player!

 

[Jirik13]

Dillon on AFL360 - The changes will in announced in 2 weeks.

 

[GC2015]

That isn't a level playing field.

The system is far from level, it's still completely broken.

Have a listen to Andrew Dillon's press conference when he was asked about the draft yesterday. He stressed the importance of 'competitive balance' for the league and how that will continue to dictate how the draft evolves. He never said anything about being a level playing field (as you put it) and it's because there's so many inherent advantages / disadvantages in this league that you can't just use a one size fits all model and expect every team to have a realistic chance of building a premiership team. The AFL wants competitive balance throughout the league and they use the draft as the main vehicle to achieve that e.g. teams that have spent a long time down the bottom of the ladder can be awarded priority picks as a circuit breaker to speed up the rebuild process and the northern academies are designed to help overcome inherent disadvantages that northern teams face.

Considering 2025 was historically the tightest season we've ever seen where 14 wins wasn't enough to get you into the finals, I'd suggest they're on to something with their current competitive balance policies. The system is working and we're seeing all kinds of records being broken all around the country as a result. The new draft bidding / matching rules basically guarantee that a club will only get priority access to high end draft talent if they finish towards the bottom of the ladder and therefore deserve it OR they give up a significant amount of their existing assets (picks and/or players) to make it possible.

I think answer is 2 picks to match, but allow 3 twice in a 10 year period.

Yeah, they might implement something like that eventually. I suppose it really depends on how dependent a club is on their priority picks in order to maintain competitiveness. I would suggest GWS will likely fall into this category in the near future when their initial crop of players like Greene, Coniglio, Whifield etc all retire in the next few years and they become heavily reliant on the draft again.

This is a big part of the reason that I think GWS should be re-assigned the Murray/Albury area in their academy zone because I think retention is going to become incredibly difficult for them once they spend several years outside the finals and digging themselves out of that hole could become a huge problem for the AFL. Drafting high end NSW talents that went through their academy pathway should help offset the likely departures of players from the southern states. As a national league, we can't afford to have an uncompetitive team in Western Sydney for 5-10 years. It'll undo a lot of the hard work that's been done in the last 15 years if we have an uncompetitive team in Western Sydney.

That Port Adelaide, with 2 years of draft picks and (if) losing Zak Butters isn’t enough to secure these players, after all the goings on in this area that has gone through the last 10-15 years, is just an appalling look for the competition.

And yes, that’s my bias talking AND my rationale brain talking.

I understand the frustration of being a supporter of the club that's essentially going to be the first ones to go through the new harsher draft bidding / matching system after watching other clubs go through any easier system over the last few years. If it makes you feel any better, the AFL actually wanted to implement this two first round pick only bid matching rule back in 2023, but were talked out of it by Carlton because the Blues didn't want to miss out on F/S access to the Camporeale twins who were both considered first round prospects at the time. Had the AFL done what they were originally planning in 2023, then we would've seen both Brisbane and Gold Coast scrambling to match bids over the last few years in the way that we're likely to see from Port Adelaide over the next two years.

It is what it is. One club had to be the first to go through this and unfortunately it looks like it's going to be Port, but at least you can take solace in the fact that the AFL didn't intentionally wait to screw Port / look after the northern clubs because they originally planned to change the rules back in 2023. Carlton prevented it.

 

[Stamos]

I’d keep it simpler - if a NGA/FS etc player is bid on in the 1st round, you have to match with a first round pick. Dont want to do that? Well you clearly don’t want said player that badly.

So the Premier bids with pick 18, and nobody can match given there are no more 1st round picks available?

I don't think you've thought this through.

 

[Purple Suit]

Have a listen to Andrew Dillon's press conference when he was asked about the draft yesterday. He stressed the importance of 'competitive balance' for the league and how that will continue to dictate how the draft evolves. He never said anything about being a level playing field (as you put it) and it's because there's so many inherent advantages / disadvantages in this league that you can't just use a one size fits all model and expect every team to have a realistic chance of building a premiership team. The AFL wants competitive balance throughout the league and they use the draft as the main vehicle to achieve that e.g. teams that have spent a long time down the bottom of the ladder can be awarded priority picks as a circuit breaker to speed up the rebuild process and the northern academies are designed to help overcome inherent disadvantages that northern teams face.

Considering 2025 was historically the tightest season we've ever seen where 14 wins wasn't enough to get you into the finals, I'd suggest they're on to something with their current competitive balance policies. The system is working and we're seeing all kinds of records being broken all around the country as a result. The new draft bidding / matching rules basically guarantee that a club will only get priority access to high end draft talent if they finish towards the bottom of the ladder and therefore deserve it OR they give up a significant amount of their existing assets (picks and/or players) to make it possible.


Yeah, they might implement something like that eventually. I suppose it really depends on how dependent a club is on their priority picks in order to maintain competitiveness. I would suggest GWS will likely fall into this category in the near future when their initial crop of players like Greene, Coniglio, Whifield etc all retire in the next few years and they become heavily reliant on the draft again.

This is a big part of the reason that I think GWS should be re-assigned the Murray/Albury area in their academy zone because I think retention is going to become incredibly difficult for them once they spend several years outside the finals and digging themselves out of that hole could become a huge problem for the AFL. Drafting high end NSW talents that went through their academy pathway should help offset the likely departures of players from the southern states. As a national league, we can't afford to have an uncompetitive team in Western Sydney for 5-10 years. It'll undo a lot of the hard work that's been done in the last 15 years if we have an uncompetitive team in Western Sydney.


I understand the frustration of being a supporter of the club that's essentially going to be the first ones to go through the new harsher draft bidding / matching system after watching other clubs go through any easier system over the last few years. If it makes you feel any better, the AFL actually wanted to implement this two first round pick only bid matching rule back in 2023, but were talked out of it by Carlton because the Blues didn't want to miss out on F/S access to the Camporeale twins who were both considered first round prospects at the time. Had the AFL done what they were originally planning in 2023, then we would've seen both Brisbane and Gold Coast scrambling to match bids over the last few years in the way that we're likely to see from Port Adelaide over the next two years.

It is what it is. One club had to be the first to go through this and unfortunately it looks like it's going to be Port, but at least you can take solace in the fact that the AFL didn't intentionally wait to screw Port / look after the northern clubs because they originally planned to change the rules back in 2023. Carlton prevented it.

There are already square ups in the system.

Opening round - Northern club advantage
Gather round - SA clubs
Extra home game - WA clubs
Only travel 5-6 times a year - Vic clubs

Retention has been shown to not be an issue. The draft needs to equalise, the NGA’s are suppose to give a pathway to the disadvantaged kids who are underrepresented in the AFL. Queensland has flipped and there as a no disadvantage to a home ground talent, NSW has less coming through though. Time to fix up the qualification too, keep them in the program but you only get access to the same rules as all the other clubs.

Last season was a great example of equalisation except they just made the back to back premiers much stronger and gave GC the best draft haul since GWS entered the competition while they finished 6th. That ruins equalisation as you still have a ton of talent who hasn’t hit their prime yet. It’s keeping it away from the bottom of the ladder and lengthens rebuilds.

GC & Brisbane will end up with a different retention problem as you will have too much talent, therefore lose a lot of fringe players who might end up decent as you can’t play them all.