Review Round 2. GC vs. St. Kilda.

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Sunny_

Sunny_

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Mar 18, 2011
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Ins and outs?

McKenzie had a great game in the 2s from what I understand. Probably ready to come back in after his injury.

Weller must come in too. Still don't know why he wasn't in round 1.

Will probably wait for the injury list to be posted before taking a crack at a team though!

I think we'll be able to compete much better against the Saints than we did the Crows. Crows are considered by most to be a top 8 team, some even say top 6, where the Saints are tipped to be the big sliders of the year, falling out of the 8. This could be one of the few matches in our first 9 or so that we have a shot of winning. Last year we competed pretty well against them, only going down by 3-4 goals I think. With us having got the cobwebs of that evil first quarter out in round 1, we should come in firing. Surely our mids won't allow that to happen again. IE: Get run over before making changes.

They will have Riewoldt this time, as well as Hayes. Not sure who will go to Riewoldt, but if we can get it into our forward line, I think our forwards should be able to kick some scores against their defense.

Fingers crossed our midfield will be able to get on top, and we get the Saints at a time when they're trying to still perfect the Scott Waters gameplan. :D

EDIT: Removed stuff about taking Iles out of the team. :eek:
 
Where is the Iles hate coming from? He worked hard and was named in the best players. Good depth player!

Not sure there will be too much change next week but should start to improve from round 3 onwards with key players back.

The team id like to see round 3:

Wilkinson Warnock Shaw
Harbrow Bock Brennan
Rischitelli Ablett Bennell
Prestia Day Caddy
Russell Lynch Brown

Smith
Stanley
Swallow

Hunt, Mckenzie, Fraser, Hall

Emg: Iles, Toy, Weller

Good balance here, more ball carrier types here than yesterday. Included fraser as he can cover both lynch/day as key forwards or smith in the ruck. need those veteran types out there also.

I think the club should work towards round 4 qclash, make that their 'early grand final', as beating the saints/bombers coming up will be tough.
 
I don't hate Iles, but I just can't see how he was one of the best players yesterday. He gets a lot of possessions mostly through link-ups I think, but when he is on the end of a chain, he just seems to panic and a turn-over results.

I think he took some nice marks in defense as a loose man there, but I just think Shaw could do an equally good job, if not better. Both of them have the same sort of utility position and fighting for that spot I think. The difference being I think Shaw runs and chases really hard everywhere across the ground. He's fast too! But I'm a Shaw fan, so I could be bias. ;)

We certainly look much more rounded with Stanley and Bock in the team. Round 3 cannot come soon enough! :(

Even the addition of McKenzie this week (hopefully) on the wing opposite of Bennell really balances us up. Great speed on the wings! :D:D
 

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Sunny..we love you!
Just some background..have you been to an actual AFL match or just watched on TV
It's not like soccer or NFL..when you get to the ground there are 2 things that you don't see because of the necessity of editing for TV
1)The grounds are huge
2)The distances the players/kicks/handballs travel are foreshortened massively by TV

Sam Iles was one player who was everywhere yesterday.Actually gut busting to get to contests
He made some clangers, but that's because he was actually at the fall of the ball or contesting..unlike some others

I like your team BB

I guess I have a lot of time for Jack Hutchins and would squeeze him in ahead of Wilko
Weller has showed he knows how to get to where the ball is, disposal is his Achilles heel..but Dave Swallow's no Saint there either.
Josh Toy I think will never rise above good average
I saw enough yesterday to think Josh Caddy will be a player and Luke Russell should be persisted with
I will probably hibernate until round 3
 
Yep agree Iles was very good yesterday. He was one of the few that can hold his head high after yesterday's debacle. He busted his guts all over the ground trying to link up the play and create run. He was definitely in my top 5 Suns yesterday and one of the few more senior bodies trying to stand up and take some work load off Sir Gaz Jnr.

On a different note, Jason Dunstall just nailed it on the head on fox footy 4 for me, this is the time of year that makes or breaks supporters. It is only Rd1 but these first few rounds is where supporters are looking for that improvement from last season, more than just a glimpse of hope that it is worth spending our hard earned cash on a membership to enjoy the season ahead. The club let us down over the pre-season, failed miserably yesterday now must step up over the next few games or our membership growth will stall. There is a reason we are 5000 members down on last season...

As far as this weeks team, I just hope the coach picks our best 22 on performance, both seniors and reserves. Their are definitely half a dozen that don't deserve their place in next weeks team, it's just whether we have the depth to replace them.
 
My own posters are turning on me! :p;)

Honestly, I'm happy to be stand corrected about Iles. I didn't see yesterdays game live, but I of course have been to live games before. Even if it was live, I usually watch where the ball is rather than off the play stuff anyways.

If you guys are definitely sure he was in your best, I'd be willing to defer to your greater knowledge. It's just to me, whenever he was under any sort of pressure a turn-over would come. Or he'd hand-ball off to Ablett who has a few guys hanging off him, only for Ablett to get tackled. This isn't an Iles-specific problem, but yeah. I did notice that he was creating an option as a floating defender, but as a utility, this is what he's supposed to be doing, isn't it? But he'd get it, and then kick it straight to a Crows player. Again, not an Iles specific problem I guess.

Perhaps it's just his errors that are standing out for me over his good gut-busting work.

We'll see what the Coaches think anyway. If he stays in, you guys might be onto something. ;)
 
Sunny_ said:
Ins and outs?

McKenzie had a great game in the 2s from what I understand. Probably ready to come back in after his injury.

Weller must come in too. Still don't know why he wasn't in round 1.

Have a crush on Shaw, so would be keen to see him in.

Who goes out?

Tape with his injury. Iles and Hickey too?

Will probably wait for the injury list to be posted before taking a crack at a team though!

I think we'll be able to compete much better against the Saints than we did the Crows. Crows are considered by most to be a top 8 team, some even say top 6, where the Saints are tipped to be the big sliders of the year, falling out of the 8. This could be one of the few matches in our first 9 or so that we have a shot of winning. Last year we competed pretty well against them, only going down by 3-4 goals I think. With us having got the cobwebs of that evil first quarter out in round 1, we should come in firing. Surely our mids won't allow that to happen again. IE: Get run over before making changes.

They will have Riewoldt this time, as well as Hayes. Not sure who will go to Riewoldt, but if we can get it into our forward line, I think our forwards should be able to kick some scores against their defense.

Fingers crossed our midfield will be able to get on top, and we get the Saints at a time when they're trying to still perfect the Scott Waters gameplan. :D
Click to expand...

Yeah sorry Sunny I thought Isles was good for us. He did his job and he made the odd mistake but he looked to be playing further back than usual to me. I would much rather have him in than Weller. Watched the reserves yesterday and Weller's disposal is not great at times and last year and also in the NAB cup I have seen him pull out of contests. I believe with his size and body he should have gone for these contests. Does not look good at all. I want to see Hutchy have a go at some stage too and yes Shaw is Ok but where do they all fit. McKenzie to come in Bock and Stanley that is three automatically out.
 
bballscout said:
Where is the Iles hate coming from?
Click to expand...

I have no clue. His disposal efficiency was 86% with 22 touches and was easily among Gold Coast's best. He should be in the first 10 picked. In comparison, Swallow had the same amount of touches, but had a disposal efficiency of 56%. Iles had 11 kicks and 11 handballs, Swallow 12 kicks and 10 handballs. For a player with over twenty touches on the day, he comfortably had the best DE, with Rischa in second on 80% and Benell on 77% the two next best.

I am not saying that Iles is better than Swallow or had more impact, I am just showing how people's perception can often not be the same as the reality.

Add 7 marks to that - second most for any GC player, and 3 tackles - equal 3rd most for any GC player, and I am pretty sure that means he was in their best 5 or so on the day.

The Iles hate is irrational. He is a serviceable player for GC.
 
GCSuns said:
What aspects of his game dissapointed you Ex?
Click to expand...
Mainly his kicking efficiency. His run and effort was good, but I think his kicking and decision making let him down at times. I may have to watch over the game again to see if that's the case, but that's what I took from watching it at the ground.
 
exile said:
Mainly his kicking efficiency. His run and effort was good, but I think his kicking and decision making let him down at times. I may have to watch over the game again to see if that's the case, but that's what I took from watching it at the ground.
Click to expand...

Even if all 11 of his handballs were effective, that still means 8 out of 11 of his kicks were effective. 8 out of 11 kicking efficiency works out to be 72%, which is still a far higher DE than most suns on the day, and way higher than Ablett and Swallow's over all DE (including handballs).
 

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Happy to be corrected if those are the stats! Sounds like he had a brilliant game. Just for some reason there are a couple of passages of play that stand out for me. In particular when he gave it off to a team-mate with an opponent hanging off him. The team-mate caught it, but was tackled instantly.

But he more than makes up for it with those efforts. Keep him in then I say. :D

Boo stats. Killing all arguments on BigFooty. ;) My FEELINGS are right! Not stats! :p

I am not saying that Iles is better than Swallow or had more impact, I am just showing how people's perception can often not be the same as the reality.
Click to expand...

This is a perfect case in point it seems. Well said.
 
Tazwegian said:
Even if all 11 of his handballs were effective, that still means 8 out of 11 of his kicks were effective. 8 out of 11 kicking efficiency works out to be 72%, which is still a far higher DE than most suns on the day, and way higher than Ablett and Swallow's over all DE (including handballs).
Click to expand...

Yep spot on. If you look at the DE% for the whole team Caddy was the worst only 50% DE but no one commenting on that. I was a little disappointed in Caddy with all the hype surrounding him I had hoped for more but time will tell. Really do not think he will stay around after this year so it is a bit hard to warm to him when he could be off the a Melb club at seasons end. Will wait and jump on board when I know he is staying but for now I am just a little indifferent that way I won't get too irate if and when he goes.
:rolleyes:
 
Just watching the Saint Kilda game, I'm feeling a little better about our chances. Yeah, umpires murdered the Saints, but I think they showed exactly why people have them slipping this year. Certainly did not do themselves any favours. They appeared to have the same disposal issues we did. Not sure if it was round 1 jitters or not, but they had quite a few errors coming from their senior players. Mind you, Port seems to have improved quite a lot. But... yeah. Saints don't appear to be as well drilled as the Crows certainly were.

Very winnable game if we go hard at it, IMO.

We should be able to win the clearance count against them if we're 'on', and our small forwards (Hall, Russell, Matera) should be able to do some good work if their defenders play like that next week. Also will help if our forward structures are in place. :eek:

The only forward I'm worried about is Kosi. That guy is a mammoth! Riewoldt seems to be having some issues and I think was a liability for them today. If he doesn't get on the right track, we should be able to keep him contained fairly well.

Thoughts on those match-ups?

May to Kosi, Warnock to Riewoldt maybe? May seems to be the bash and crash spoiling type defender, and Warnock can go with the running type forwards from what I've seen of him so far.

Weller to Milne? That guy can creep up out of no-where!
 
We really don't have anyone with capacity yet to follow Roo up the ground. Warnock is a great stay at home defender but won't have the legs to follow Riewoldt up to the wing when he wanders. May will probably be given a shot with the slightly better leg speed but then doesn't have the body. Worse case scenario after Roo kicks his 5th Brennan might be given a crack!

Or Bluey could have another brain fade and put Gorringe on him? ;)

I expect the Saints to fire this week after their close loss to Port. Great win by Port early up and a massive boost for the players, club and supporters. You would swear they won the GF the way they were going off after the final siren!
 
GCSuns said:
We really don't have anyone with capacity yet to follow Roo up the ground. Warnock is a great stay at home defender but won't have the legs to follow Riewoldt up to the wing when he wanders. May will probably be given a shot with the slightly better leg speed but then doesn't have the body. Worse case scenario after Roo kicks his 5th Brennan might be given a crack!

Or Bluey could have another brain fade and put Gorringe on him? ;)

I expect the Saints to fire this week after their close loss to Port. Great win by Port early up and a massive boost for the players, club and supporters. You would swear they won the GF the way they were going off after the final siren!
Click to expand...

With Port's celebrating, tough hard fought wins generally always bring out the emotions moreso. Look at the Essendon win as well, same type of celebration.

This will be a tough ask, St Kilda looked decent, Port looked great as well and continued their preseason form.

To be honest, I dont mind if Riewoldt has to run up to the wings to get his marks, he cant kick goals from there :) They also have a completely different gamestyle compared to Adelaide. A lot more precise hitups, rather than that gut running back and forward over the top type of stuff which suits our defenders a lot more. So from that, I'd expect their talls Riewoldt/Kosi to kick a few each, maybe 2-3 each? But it will be Milne the grub to kick a bag or Schneider or something like that, as we don't really handle the smaller/medium forwards that well.

We will also have a tough day at the office around the stoppages with Hayes, Montagna, Jones all really hard players at the contest, with Dal Santo floating around also with his damaging leg. May suit Hunt to an extent as they are no where near as fast as Adelaide with their extraction and can perhaps impose himself around the contests as well.
 
Yeah, I noticed that too Supernova. I think the Saints had some 30 more marks than Port did, and a heap more kicks. But they got smashed in the clearances, and seemed to have issues with getting the contested ball. Similar to us, really. RE: Clearances/CP.

Port play to a style similar to what we're trying to do and what the Crows do well. Run and carry with our speed. While Saints seem to be keen to hit up targets with precise kicks. It will be interesting to see how we go against a team that won't destroy our structure by running through it.

I think if our midfield plays well and shows what it can do, there is a serious chance of us getting ahead of the clearances in a similar way to Port did.

My only concern is our forward structure and how it will work. I don't mind the bomb to the contest entry at all. This seems to be a method that most teams are playing. However, quite a lot our bombs into 50 either didn't go to a contest at all (floating defender getting an uncontested mark), or our smaller forwards weren't there to gather the crumbs quick enough. If the structures can be fixed, IE: Matera/Hall/Russell getting there to read the crumbs well, it will go a long way to helping us win.

Of course, hitting up Lynch on a lead would be ideal too. ;)
 
I was reading a game review from Saturday and one journo noted Ablett isn't being tagged these days
As he said..why waste a player..he can't kick it to himself
So, we are officially a joke
I didn't mention Matty Warnock...a really solid debut...I went to about 4 training sessions over pre-season and he really trained the house down..looked like a man in Boytown
One thing Melbourne does have is a reasonable defence, so no shame he couldn't get a regular gig there
Just on Maysie...really needs to build his tank ...noticed in training drills and on Saturday..he blows up very early
A guy like Franklin or Riewoldt will run him off in minutes.
I'm hoping Jumping Jacky Hutch can come back from injury and fill a role on guys like Franklin..he is very aerobic for a big bloke...but seems on the outer with our coaching staff
 
Its at Etihad so i don't think there is a question about who will win, but i think you guys can have a good run at us with us most likely missing Schneider, sippos, gram, gwilt, and a few others, leaving our defence quite open so you should be able to put on a pretty good offensive display. So it will come down to your midfield to actually get the ball into the forward 50, and with ablett on your side you will have chances.

You guys will have a better year then last, your time will come, it's not that far away, theres been drastic improvements since last year, let alone round one vs carlton, so good luck but i think it will be the saints by 45+ because it's at Etihad.
 
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