Player Watch #1 - Jesse Hogan - traded to Freo - #fistedforever

[Tulip]

Most clubs would kill for a tall, physical winger who takes 8 marks, kicks a goal or two, and has 20 touches a game. The thing about Hogan is that he's a better player and forward than Weid, and it will take a lot to change that. As has been said numerous times by him and Goodwin, he's going nowhere. They'll either find him another role further up the ground, play all three, or Sammy will play VFL.

I'm happy to make any sig/avatar/BF bet you like that there is never a time in 2019 when Hogan and Weideman are fully match fit and Hogan misses out.

 

[Topkent]

Most clubs would kill for a tall, physical winger who takes 8 marks, kicks a goal or two, and has 20 touches a game. The thing about Hogan is that he's a better player and forward than Weid, and it will take a lot to change that. As has been said numerous times by him and Goodwin, he's going nowhere. They'll either find him another role further up the ground, play all three, or Sammy will play VFL.

I'm happy to make any sig/avatar/BF bet you like that there is never a time in 2019 when Hogan and Weideman are fully match fit and Hogan misses out.

That's not really the point is it. You aren't asking what we think then your asking us to bet on how Goody will pick the team.

Gaff averaged 29 touches 5 marks and .7 goals a game.

Smith averaged 21 touches 6 marks an a bit more than a goal game

Polec 25 disp 5 marks and a goal every second game.

Coniglio 28 disp 5 marks and a goal.

Plus these guys midfield minutes would be far more damaging than Hogan.

I'm happy to try him out in a roaming winger role but his pressure wouldn't have matched his teammates against Geelong. Don't wanna see him inside 50 anymore unless it's from work rate like Harmes goal.

 

[schmuttt]

Weid isn’t going to be happy to sit in the VFL especially if he continues to improve. We either make the 3 talls work somehow (Doubtful on evidence so far) or we lose one of Weid/Hogan.

 

[Ando727]

Ok, here goes, another opinion if anyone cares:

Hogan is not as good as Weid or TMac as a forward - never will be. He lacks size, reach, leap, overhead marking. A lot of his goals have been in junk time, rarely in pressure situations when big forwards clunk big marks and kick important goals. He has more value as a half back - something like what Hurley does at Essendon. This can take advantage of his ability to compete, grab the ball off the deck - he can learn the other parts of defending as he goes along. I think he has the assets to be an elite defender if he can mentally adjust to not being a hero forward. The other good thing about Hogan in defence is that we don't have the worry that our team is focussed on one forward option at the expense of better opportunities. Like it or not, Hogan makes guys want to kick it to him. He has a certain dominant/needy quality that makes his teammates want to please him. That has to stop. The fact that this problem stopped when he left the side and we suddenly had so many avenues to goal is testimony to that.

If Hogan doesn't want to play in defence, I say we trade him. I don't believe we need 3 balls in the forward 50, and like Topkent said, we can't retain 3 tall forwards who each want a big pay check. We'd be better off trading him now if we're going to lose one of them.

Finally, and I can't believe nobody else is worried about this, what about the navicular fracture? Nobody else worried about the possible longterm outcome of this. There have been numerous guys whose careers have been ended by this injury. And we have Viney on the list too. Two guys with dodgy feet on the list? No thanks. Like it or not, Hogan is injury prone.

In short, I'd keep him if he's happy to go down back - permanently. If he's not, ship him off to Freo.

 

[RFCGloryJC]

Best wishes in the finals series.
I don't think you need Hogan.
Tom McD is a star and Weideman is excelling.

 

[Blackas87]

Hogan is not as good as Weid

WTF, I know Weid played well against Geelong but holy sh1t.

Hogan kicked 47 goals this season, he was everyone’s All Australian CHF halfway through the year. He had a tougher 2nd half but let’s calm down, Weid still has a long way to go.

 

[Tulip]

WTF, I know Weid played well against Geelong but holy sh1t.

Hogan kicked 47 goals this season, he was everyone’s All Australian CHF halfway through the year. He had a tougher 2nd half but let’s calm down, Weid still has a long way to go.

Yep this thread has staggered me too, but I guess the only way to find out is to see what 2019 brings.

 

[HANDSOLO]

I agree that I think Wied can be better than Hogan given his attributes and my half assed perception of his approach and "forward craft" from afar
BUT Hogan has a much better track record and Wied could drop in a hole for a few weeks or another year, before he ultimately outshines him

So yeah, as much as I called the Wied as being a gun and want to take credit for him, way too premature much of this talk.

Clearly Spargo is the problem right now. We need men not people who can be pushed aside

 

[stretcharmstrong]

That's not really the point is it. You aren't asking what we think then your asking us to bet on how Goody will pick the team.

Gaff averaged 29 touches 5 marks and .7 goals a game.

Smith averaged 21 touches 6 marks an a bit more than a goal game

Polec 25 disp 5 marks and a goal every second game.

Coniglio 28 disp 5 marks and a goal.

Plus these guys midfield minutes would be far more damaging than Hogan.

I'm happy to try him out in a roaming winger role but his pressure wouldn't have matched his teammates against Geelong. Don't wanna see him inside 50 anymore unless it's from work rate like Harmes goal.

I think really wherever he is, his lack of defensive mindset will hurt. If he’s wing or CHB, unless he’s the deep anchor guy, the zone structure will breakdown and we’ll go back to being burnt on transition. I love Hoges, very much want him in the side, and believe he’s got 90% of the tools to be super valuable in a number of positions, when fit. But he needs to improve his game and add that last 10% which is really just a mental commitment to defence and staying switched on. And he needs to do that regardless of where we want him to play.

 

[Proper Gander]

I think really wherever he is, his lack of defensive mindset will hurt. If he’s wing or CHB, unless he’s the deep anchor guy, the zone structure will breakdown and we’ll go back to being burnt on transition. I love Hoges, very much want him in the side, and believe he’s got 90% of the tools to be super valuable in a number of positions, when fit. But he needs to improve his game and add that last 10% which is really just a mental commitment to defence and staying switched on. And he needs to do that regardless of where we want him to play.

All attributes that can be coached, and he’s still a young player. Ball’s in the coaches court I think.

 

[Tulip]

Yep he's a competitive beast, up to the coaches to harness that into his tackling and repeat efforts

 

[HANDSOLO]

Yep he's a competitive beast, up to the coaches to harness that into his tackling and repeat efforts

Hey Tulip,

Not trying to be a smart ass - what makes you say he's a competitive beast? Is there a cycle where he stuff something up, and is so competitive he gets really pissed off at himself and goes into an anger spiral or something?

Agree with PG and you that ball is probably in coaches court

 

[Tulip]

Hey Tulip,

Not trying to be a smart ass - what makes you say he's a competitive beast? Is there a cycle where he stuff something up, and is so competitive he gets really pissed off at himself and goes into an anger spiral or something?

Agree with PG and you that ball is probably in coaches court

He's a bull at the gates when he plays inside mid, he loves wrestling with key backs (which is an issue, given he's better on the lead) and you have to be a tough bastard to go through what he did last year and come back to kick just short of 50 goals in 20 games.

 

[HANDSOLO]

He's a bull at the gates when he plays inside mid, he loves wrestling with key backs (which is an issue, given he's better on the lead) and you have to be a tough bastard to go through what he did last year and come back to kick just short of 50 goals in 20 games.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh I seeeeee

 

[Ando727]

Hogan is not as good as Weid

WTF, I know Weid played well against Geelong but holy sh1t.

Selective quoting...

I said as a forward, Hogan is not as good (for us) as Weid and Tmac. The reason is that he is used obsessively as a target. Yes, he kicked a few goals, but with the amount of times it was kicked to him, of course he would. I would say if Tmac or Weid were being targeted in forward 50 entries like Hogan was, they would have kicked even more goals than Jesse did because they would have taken more marks.

In overall footballing ability terms, no, Weid is not better than Hogan. Hogan has more attributes to his game at this point. But Weid can catch him, imo. What matters though, is what suits our forward line better - and that's Weid. Hogan can help us more when he's not in the forward 50.

 

[Topkent]

WTF, I know Weid played well against Geelong but holy sh1t.

Hogan kicked 47 goals this season, he was everyone’s All Australian CHF halfway through the year. He had a tougher 2nd half but let’s calm down, Weid still has a long way to go.

40 of which were in games we could have easily won without him. Anyway he's too big a figure for one side to convince the other but it's a very interesting debate. I can't think of another Melbourne player who was so split up the middle in opinion.

Selective quoting...

I said as a forward, Hogan is not as good (for us) as Weid and Tmac. The reason is that he is used obsessively as a target. Yes, he kicked a few goals, but with the amount of times it was kicked to him, of course he would. I would say if Tmac or Weid were being targeted in forward 50 entries like Hogan was, they would have kicked even more goals than Jesse did because they would have taken more marks.

In overall footballing ability terms, no, Weid is not better than Hogan. Hogan has more attributes to his game at this point. But Weid can catch him, imo. What matters though, is what suits our forward line better - and that's Weid. Hogan can help us more when he's not in the forward 50.

If we threw our structure out as bad as we did when Hogan was in and kicked it to Tmac as often he would kick 80.

 

[demon21]

I can't believe some people want Hogan traded how people forget half way through this year he would have been in the AA team. 3 out of his 4 years he has kicked over 40 goals but yet people want him traded. I hope people in charge at Melb aren't this stupid only reason you would trade him out if he told the club he wants to go back to perth.

 

[TheCount]

Trading Hogan now would be like dumping your model girlfriend, because a super model smiled at you.

Whether playing all 3 of Hogan, TMac and Weid will actually work long term or not, we need a sustained look at it before any decisions are made.

 

[Topkent]

Let me frame it in a different way seeing as us stupid people don't get it.

If Hogan was playing at another side and we had Tmac and Weid, would anyone advocate trading for him and paying him 800k? Would you be ok with paying two top 10 picks?

That's what Freo may pay us.

 

[TheCount]

Let me frame it in a different way seeing as us stupid people don't get it.

If Hogan was playing at another side and we had Tmac and Weid, would anyone advocate trading for him and paying him 800k? Would you be ok with paying two top 10 picks?

That's what Freo may pay us.

If you'd (very likely) won the last two Premierships playing 1 Key Forward, would you spend over $1mil to bring in another one?

 

[LeverPuller]

Win our first final in 12 years and we spend it arguing about trades...

 

[Ando727]

Win our first final in 12 years and we spend it arguing about trades...

Well, we are talking about a guy who doesn't play for us.

 

[Demon bhoy]

Let me frame it in a different way seeing as us stupid people don't get it.

If Hogan was playing at another side and we had Tmac and Weid, would anyone advocate trading for him and paying him 800k? Would you be ok with paying two top 10 picks?

That's what Freo may pay us.[/
I don’t think any other team would be looking to trade away their best key forward in the vain hope they might get someone better in the future.

 

[schmuttt]

He isn’t our best key forward though, tmac is.

Atm I’m sorta hoping he requests a trade as if i want to force him out but we will lose him or Weid eventually.

Just don’t see the three talls working long term at all

 

[stretcharmstrong]

All attributes that can be coached, and he’s still a young player. Ball’s in the coaches court I think.

Bit rough to lump it at the coaches feet - I’d say the coaches are already coaching every player to do their bit defensively and remain focussed, etc.

I’d say balls in Jessie’s court.