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2002 AFL odds!

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Originally posted by ok.crows


I personally don't bet. It is a waste of time ... there are too many factors beyond one's personal control or responsibility to be held accountable in monetary terms for the outcome. If you can follow that then you know what I mean ... if not, then too bad. For you.

I still see absolutely no reason you have offered for your opinion that Crows will slide & Collingwood improve and Carlton not slide ... no objective reason whatsoever. Crows have gained good potential recruits & their youth has gained in experience ... for Carlton you would be hard pressed to argue either & they have lost more ... for Collingwood they have no ready made recruits for this year. Furthermore, Crows best produced results against the best sides this year more often than either Carlton or Collingwood. These are the objective facts. Please constrain any further objective discussion to the facts.
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Facts ? Crowboy, I could go down the exact path as yourself and list players who are going to improve this year, and whatever, but it is all heresay. Non factual until after the event has been witnessed. So really there is no point going there.

I do know this however. Failure rarely exists at Carlton. It is unacceptable and if you were a Carlton supporter, then you would understand. But you are not.

You stated that Adelaide produced good results against the best sides. Given the side's erractic behaviour over the past few years, what do you think is going to change this year ? Remember that you have to include the clubs results against opposition which you deem ordinary. Consistency is the key. Carlton have proven to be MORE consistent than Adelaide over this period with finishes of 2,3, and 6. As a team they have win/loss ration of around 55 wins and 18 losses. The only side that probably beats that is Essendon. Correct me if I am wrong.

Yeah sure, Kouta will be a loss. Silvagni, whilst most people are under the impression that he played the year at Full Back, played most of his football up forward last year. This has now been offset by McKernahan and the backline pretty much looks after itself. Carlton's backline always looks solid due to the fact that our midfield usually dominates a game. It is no secret that if you beat Carltons midfield, you win the game. Also take into consideration the poor seasons by Whitnall, Allan, and the addition of Murphy and it is quite a reality that Carlton can lay assault to the premiership for 2002 but I stress, it is only heresay.

ps- good luck with Massie. Melson is a bonehead !
 
Sorry can't agree wormster, Kouta's our best player.

I've said many times i reckon the guy's underrated, but then again I think Carlton's underrated as a rule, Ratten included, Whitnall included, SOS was sledged for being overrated and not worthy of FB-of-century honours, Bradley gets called soft, Lappin is rated well below Farmer, Mercuri, Burns etc UNDERRATED, Diesel Williams I remember people saying he was useless and had massive weaknesses eg pace against players like McGuane HELLO!

But one thing I'm sure of, Kouta is our best player. He's the equal of Kernahan, the equal two best players I've ever seen in a Carlton jumper IMO.
 

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Originally posted by Worm4

Facts ? Crowboy, I could go down the exact path as yourself and list players who are going to improve this year, and whatever, but it is all heresay. Non factual until after the event has been witnessed. So really there is no point going there.

I do know this however. Failure rarely exists at Carlton. It is unacceptable and if you were a Carlton supporter, then you would understand. But you are not.

You stated that Adelaide produced good results against the best sides. Given the side's erractic behaviour over the past few years, what do you think is going to change this year ? Remember that you have to include the clubs results against opposition which you deem ordinary. Consistency is the key. Carlton have proven to be MORE consistent than Adelaide over this period with finishes of 2,3, and 6. As a team they have win/loss ration of around 55 wins and 18 losses. The only side that probably beats that is Essendon. Correct me if I am wrong.

Yeah sure, Kouta will be a loss. Silvagni, whilst most people are under the impression that he played the year at Full Back, played most of his football up forward last year. This has now been offset by McKernahan and the backline pretty much looks after itself. Carlton's backline always looks solid due to the fact that our midfield usually dominates a game. It is no secret that if you beat Carltons midfield, you win the game. Also take into consideration the poor seasons by Whitnall, Allan, and the addition of Murphy and it is quite a reality that Carlton can lay assault to the premiership for 2002 but I stress, it is only heresay.

ps- good luck with Massie. Melson is a bonehead !
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I don't really disagree with you on much of this, except to point out that Carlton are indeed consistent - consistently just behing the real pace. Carlton shows good solid form but no sign of real brilliance.

Crows are erratic. They can come up with real belters of a game, but often enough also they fail against average sides.

But I would contend that at least an erratic side has shown that it can be a good side. Crows need now to eliminate their inconsistency. This should be an achieveable aim, considering that Crows managed to improve shomewhat in this area as last year progressed. Crows have a very inexperienced squad, and perhaps this is part of the reason for inconsistency. If so, they as they gain experience it should become less of a problem.

Carlton, OTOH - well one can't see exactly where they can pull the required ilft in form from. Carlton are OK, but lack real potency. Carlton are not going to find that potency from McKernan, Eccles and David Ghallager.

All IMO, of course, but I think I am on pretty safe ground here.
 
Originally posted by ok.crows


Carlton, OTOH - well one can't see exactly where they can pull the required ilft in form from. Carlton are OK, but lack real potency. Carlton are not going to find that potency from McKernan, Eccles and David Ghallager.

All IMO, of course, but I think I am on pretty safe ground here.
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Well IMO, McKernahan could be serviceable and will take a really good backman away from Whitnall I suggest. Whitnall needs to improve a lot from last year and by all reports, is fitter now then at this time in any pre-season. Eccles will probably be a fringe player. Gallagher ( I know ) is a bonehead in much the same mould as Nelson will be for Adelaide.

Allan needs to play more than a handful of games this year ( hard to believe he was out for more than half the season last year ), and IF we get some further improvement from our lower ranked players such as Houlihan, Freeborn and Hulme, I can not see why Carlton will slip further down the ladder which has been predicted by most in general discussion.

Hopefully we can offset the loss of Silvagni and Kouta, but as I see most Carlton games, there input was not as great last year so there absence will not be as great as touted by yourself.

There you have it !
 

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Originally posted by ok.crows



Carlton, OTOH - well one can't see exactly where they can pull the required ilft in form from. Carlton are OK, but lack real potency. Carlton are not going to find that potency from McKernan, Eccles and David Ghallager.

All IMO, of course, but I think I am on pretty safe ground here.
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Carlton ranked better in attack ( 4th ), and better in defence last year ( 1st) than the crows.

Please explain to me your reasoning for Carlton's lack of potency this year given that we have strengthened our midfield with the re-inclusion of Murphy, and should be better in attack with the addition of McKernahan ?

Personally speaking, I think Carlton have the best midfield in the league with Allan, Ratten, Camporeale, Hulme/Murphy/Bradley all rotating in the midfield. Apart from flashes of brilliance from Riccuito and Macleod, I fail to see where Adelaide rates as a better side than Carlton as you have suggested on another site .
 
ok.crows, you're on drugs. I'd suggest the team that was truly inconsistent this year was Carlton mate, where have you been on Uranus?

We were clearly a better side than Adelaide this year as evidenced by our defence(1st) attack(4th) and midfield strength. Adelaide snuck into the finals and then got belted, MacLeod got blitzed by Hulme and Plunkett, Riccuto and Goodwin got bullied by Koutaman. It was a comprehensive mauling.

You lost Jarman, you replace with Fitzgerald is that right? Dud. Byebye crowies say hello to 13th position for me ok!
 
Actually, Starchild, given your handle & avatar, it must be you who are on drugs! ;)

Adelaide are inconsistent, there is no question about this. Look at the game just a few weeks before the finals, when Adelaide comprehensively mauled Carlton.

To quote one of your own (it may have been Bradley or Brittain, I can't recall) "we were comprehensively beaten all over the park that day".

If Adelaides list is so poor ... how did they achieve that?

Inconsistent I'll grant you, but not poor.

Poor clubs just don't beat Carlton by 50 points on any day.
 
Originally posted by ok.crows
Actually, Starchild, given your handle & avatar, it must be you who are on drugs! ;)

Adelaide are inconsistent, there is no question about this. Look at the game just a few weeks before the finals, when Adelaide comprehensively mauled Carlton.

To quote one of your own (it may have been Bradley or Brittain, I can't recall) "we were comprehensively beaten all over the park that day".

If Adelaides list is so poor ... how did they achieve that?

Inconsistent I'll grant you, but not poor.

Poor clubs just don't beat Carlton by 50 points on any day.
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No, they just lose to Fremantle prior to the finals. A bit of momentum would not astray their son !
 
Originally posted by Worm4


No, they just lose to Fremantle prior to the finals. A bit of momentum would not astray their son !
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Whose son?

You are correct in that the last two games of the year were dead shockers for Crows. They had maade the 8, and seemed to take a "relax & avoid injury - we can't improve on 8th anyway" attitude to that game. Dreadful showing, no doubt about it.

So poor that they carried the self-doubt into the next week.

As for momentum - it should be possible to focus on the posiiitives from the five or so weeks preceeding the last round, though.

Plenty of momentum there.
 
Adelaide's best game in 3 years that one against Carlton, yet you only won by 50. If we played our best game in 3 years I reckon you'd get beaten by 150.

True difference between us is probably 4-6 goals, that's both sides playing at or close to their best. You obviously dont agree though so stuff it, I don't really care. I think the game against us in Adelaide you played above yourselves.
 

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Originally posted by The Starchild
Adelaide's best game in 3 years that one against Carlton, yet you only won by 50. If we played our best game in 3 years I reckon you'd get beaten by 150.

True difference between us is probably 4-6 goals, that's both sides playing at or close to their best. You obviously dont agree though so stuff it, I don't really care. I think the game against us in Adelaide you played above yourselves.
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This ones worth a chuckle. Carlton were one of the easiest in that stretch of wins that got Crows into the finals. North were fairly lame as well. Hawks put up more of a show, as did even Melbourne.

Better games from Crows this year were against Brisbane @ Gabba, against Saints @ Colonial (although the Saints didn't show much), & against Richmond @ the G (they werre going to slaughter us, remember?)

Adelaide played well below their capabilities in many games last year. Its easy to do - easy to sstuff something up.

But play above ourselves? Surely you jest. How does a team do that? It is an absurdity. You can't play above your best - clearly the best game you play is your best - by definition.

Adelaide hit that form level on about five occassions last year. The aim for next year is to improve on the frequency with which they can hit that form.

With luck they can do that & snare an extra couple of games.
 
Let me explain for you ok.crows, its quite simple.

You played above your normal standard. There, did that stop your chuckle there and then Mark? It wasn't what you assumed was it mate, haha.

And when I said that bit about your best performance in 3 yrs it was quoting Gary Ayres the crows coach. Surely you wouldn't be contradicting your own team's coaching staff would you?

Now it's MY turn to chuckle, heheheheheheheeee........
 
Originally posted by The Starchild
Let me explain for you ok.crows, its quite simple.

You played above your normal standard. There, did that stop your chuckle there and then Mark? It wasn't what you assumed was it mate, haha.

And when I said that bit about your best performance in 3 yrs it was quoting Gary Ayres the crows coach. Surely you wouldn't be contradicting your own team's coaching staff would you?

Now it's MY turn to chuckle, heheheheheheheeee........
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Not at all starbaby.

You just admitted that Crows "normal" was well below their best ... which of course is exactly the same as saying their best, or theeir capability if you like, is way better than their normal.

I agree.

Now, if Crows can gain a little experience, stability, etc ... then more often they should be able to produce at theeeir best. Just as last year wore on, they hit their best more often.

So that means that all things being equal, Crows "normal" standard should lift a little next year, as they more often hit their best form.

Thanks for agreeing with me. Should snare us a couple of extra wins, I'm sure you agree.
 
The odds against Carlton and Adelaide both playing to their best in a game aganist each other would be staggering.

They are the two most inconsistent clubs in the competition.
 
These are the current updated odds for 2002

Brisbane Lions To Win - $3.35
Essendon Bombers To Win - $3.60
Hawthorn Hawks To Win - $9.50
Port Adelaide To Win - $12.00
Carlton Blues To Win - $17.00
Richmond Tigers To Win - $17.00
Melbourne Demons To Win - $23.00
Adelaide Crows To Win - $26.00
Sydney Swans To Win - $26.00
Collingwood Magpies To Win - $29.00
Kangaroos To Win - $31.00
Western Bulldogs To Win - $41.00
St Kilda Saints To Win - $51.00
Geelong Cats To Win - $67.00
Fremantle Dockers To Win - $71.00
West Coast Eagles To Win - $101.00
 
Originally posted by Port01
The odds against Carlton and Adelaide both playing to their best in a game aganist each other would be staggering.

They are the two most inconsistent clubs in the competition.
Click to expand...
It'd be a match worth seeing though.....
 

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2002 AFL odds!

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