2005 AFC side

[mymansyd]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

Not a bad side that. If we have a decent run with injuries and are in form then we could sneak into the 8.

Yep, if we have an injury-free run a la 2002, then I think we'll surprise alot of experts next year.

Our depth is the big question mark, though. Also, hopefully, Craigy can shake Shirley and Doughty (in particular) out of his system.

 

[Mad Dog]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

Mad Dog, you lazy son-of-a-bitch!

Here goes then, the AFC Board's Consensus 2005 Best Crows' Team...

(As voted by CROWS98, SNAKEBITE01, STIFFY18, JEROME, 86CROW, FUDD, PERTHCROW, THE IRON SOCK, MAD DOG, KANE MCGOODWIN, JARS458, GRANDFINAL GURUS, RUSSIAN, MYMANSYD)

In brackets is how many selections - not including as an emergency - each player received. Maximum was 14.

F. EDWARDS (14), M.STEVENS (11), WELSH (14)
HF. HENTSCHEL (14), PERRIE (12), BURTON (13)
C. GOODWIN (14), RICCIUTO (14), REILLY (14)
HB. BEGLEY (12), MCGREGOR (14), JOHNCOCK (14)
B. BASSETT (14), RUTTEN (14), HART (14)
R. CLARKE (14), THOMPSON (14), MCLEOD (14)
I. BIGLANDS (13), TORNEY (11), BODE (8), MATTNER/SCHUBACK/JERICHO* (6)
E. MATTNER/SCHUBACK/JERICHO* (6), WATTS (5)

*Tie for the 22nd spot. 1 of Mattner/Schuback/Jericho would get a gig on the bench, the other 2 would be emergencies.

Other mentions-: Doughty# 3, Hudson 3, S.Stevens 3, Ladhams 2, Skipworth 2, Shirley# 1, Smith 1.
No mentions-: Bock (mentioned twice as an emergency), Krueger, Massie (mentioned once as an emergency).

#Obviously not alot of respect between us for these 2 Ayres/Craig regulars.

mymansyd....it lives !!!...... .....I knew you wouldnt be able to resist this task !...excellent work.
I suppose no surprises here...as you said it's interesting that not many of us have time for Doughty....I think this will continue to be a great source of frustration for me in 2005 particularly as NC seems to like him as much as GA.
My only other surprise is Torney getting as many votes.....he's a fine player but I just can't see him being involved for too many more years - thats why I would favour Mattner.....I am a Mattner fan (I'll give it one more year)
It's obvious we dont really see Watts being involved til '06.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

mymansyd....it lives !!!...... .....I knew you wouldnt be able to resist this task !...excellent work.
I suppose no surprises here...as you said it's interesting that not many of us have time for Doughty....I think this will continue to be a great source of frustration for me in 2005 particularly as NC seems to like him as much as GA.
My only other surprise is Torney getting as many votes.....he's a fine player but I just can't see him being involved for too many more years - thats why I would favour Mattner.....I am a Mattner fan (I'll give it one more year)
It's obvious we dont really see Watts being involved til '06.

It suprises me Thorney his held in such low regard by posters on this board. IMO, when he has played, he is one of the few that is willing to put his body on the line.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

It suprises me Thorney his held in such low regard by posters on this board. IMO, when he has played, he is one of the few that is willing to put his body on the line.

I am a JT fan and have been ever since he first played for us. He is one of the most courageous players on our list and busts his guts for the jumper. I am extremely surprised that people here have jumped on JT's back after he had an injury riddled year. And people forget that JT hasn't missed a game for 5 years prior to this year. He is an integral part of our backline IMHO and I am surprised that people don't rate him.

And Mattner over Torney???????? PLEASE!!!!!!

 

[crowsarethebest]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

I am a JT fan and have been ever since he first played for us. He is one of the most courageous players on our list and busts his guts for the jumper. I am extremely surprised that people here have jumped on JT's back after he had an injury riddled year. And people forget that JT hasn't missed a game for 5 years prior to this year. He is an integral part of our backline IMHO and I am surprised that people don't rate him.

And Mattner over Torney???????? PLEASE!!!!!!

Yeah i rate torney over mattner. Mattner was playing pretty well a few years ago but then dropped off. Massie and torney are simular players and we need more of them!

 

[- PC -]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

Not a bad side that. If we have a decent run with injuries and are in form then we could sneak into the 8.

Ive been trying to say that for weeks

Total_Package called me nuts but I reckon with a good run looking a the draw we can swing 12 games and possibly with luck 14

To quote Big Kev ''I'm excited''

 

[Jerome]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

Our depth is the big question mark, though. Also, hopefully, Craigy can shake Shirley and Doughty (in particular) out of his system.

As Player Development Manager I think that will be Alan Stewart's gig.

Its obvious we need someone at the club to develop the youngsters to get them out of bad habits and give them the right mindset for AFL footy.

We all agree that Stewie is the man for the gig. However I think there is another side to Stewies style that the players need to look out for.

Read an interview with Central's Captain Daniel Healy during GF week. When asked what he remembered of his early days with Centrals, he mentioned the impact of Stewart and how he weeded out people at CDFC who were'nt up to it. Alan's standards are high and narrow and they have been the foundation of our success.

Some of the duds on our list who think they are going along OK may be in for a bloody rude shock. I hope Stewie is given the freedom to give them one.

 

[Mad Dog]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

I am a JT fan and have been ever since he first played for us. He is one of the most courageous players on our list and busts his guts for the jumper. I am extremely surprised that people here have jumped on JT's back after he had an injury riddled year. And people forget that JT hasn't missed a game for 5 years prior to this year. He is an integral part of our backline IMHO and I am surprised that people don't rate him.

And Mattner over Torney???????? PLEASE!!!!!!

Agree with your thoughts on Torney - I've been a fan too - and in a normal side going along nicely - yes he would play in front of Mattner....my point is - we don't have the luxury of playing black flankers who may not be around in a year or 2. We need to give players like Mattner a full year to eliminate his mistakes and find out if he can play......I would like the Mattner question resolved in my mind one way or the other by R 22 next year - and the only way to do that is to play him. The other thing that isn't in Torney's favour is that I think Begley plays the same sort of role in the side when you look at the roles of the back 6 - and I think is probably a better long term prospect.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

You pick your side on their merits and if Mattner beats Torney for the spot then be it but I don't think he will. Torney still has good 4-5 years left in him and with Hart at 30 he would be a cool head down back that is there to bring the youngsters alone.

Just because Mattner is younger doesn't mean he should get a game before Torney. That spot should be given to the player that earns it and not the players thats younger.

I still have some bit question marks on Mattner. I really admire his endevaour and toughness but his decision making and disposal has not really improved in 3 years that he has been on our list. I am afraid his best bet is to make it as a tagger. With a bit more concentration excersises and another 4-5 kg on his frame he sould go alright in that role. If he can't cut it in the AFL that way, I am afraid he never will. He can do a taggin job on an outside player and he has been doing it well this year but he needs to move himself into the midfield and pick up a player that Stinger would have had in the past.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

I still have some bit question marks on Mattner. I really admire his endevaour and toughness but his decision making and disposal has not really improved in 3 years that he has been on our list. I am afraid his best bet is to make it as a tagger. With a bit more concentration excersises and another 4-5 kg on his frame he sould go alright in that role. If he can't cut it in the AFL that way, I am afraid he never will. He can do a taggin job on an outside player and he has been doing it well this year but he needs to move himself into the midfield and pick up a player that Stinger would have had in the past.

Well at least you have softened your attitude to Mattner
Still think your assessment is slightly coloured. You cannot tell me that Mattners disposal and skills are superior to Stingers - yet Stinger was put on some kind of pedestal - I would like to reflect on his hilites, games he won for us - no the fact is he claimed some early scalps as a tagger, and was a good average footballer

He was nowhere near scrutinised as much as Mattner who I thought had pretty fine season.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

Well at least you have softened your attitude to Mattner
Still think your assessment is slightly coloured. You cannot tell me that Mattners disposal and skills are superior to Stingers - yet Stinger was put on some kind of pedestal - I would like to reflect on his hilites, games he won for us - no the fact is he claimed some early scalps as a tagger, and was a good average footballer

He was nowhere near scrutinised as much as Mattner who I thought had pretty fine season.

I think your assement is slightly coloured

Stinger is far more versatile than Mattner and a LOT better player. Mattner's decision making in the clinches is very ordinary to say the least. His dispisal is also ordinary. While Stinger doesn't have a great disposal, the fact that Mattner is hopelessly one sided goes against him.

As I said if he wants to make it, then it will be as a tagger. He is a good average player that can be a solid contributor in the side but not someone that you can pencil in as a certain player of the future like say Reilly. Lets ask the question, if Mattner was playing for one of the better sides would he get a game??????

He had a solid season that faded out in the last month or so. He has done nothing to suggest to me that he will be someone who we can pencil in as a permanent fixture in the side 5 years down the track.

 

[snakebite01]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

I think your assement is slightly coloured

Stinger is far more versatile than Mattner and a LOT better player. Mattner's decision making in the clinches is very ordinary to say the least. His dispisal is also ordinary. While Stinger doesn't have a great disposal, the fact that Mattner is hopelessly one sided goes against him.

As I said if he wants to make it, then it will be as a tagger. He is a good average player that can be a solid contributor in the side but not someone that you can pencil in as a certain player of the future like say Reilly. Lets ask the question, if Mattner was playing for one of the better sides would he get a game??????

He had a solid season that faded out in the last month or so. He has done nothing to suggest to me that he will be someone who we can pencil in as a permanent fixture in the side 5 years down the track.

I don't think Mattner can be played as a tagger. He is not an in close player and not tight enough to play in that position.

His best attributes are his ball carrying ability, his pace and the length of his kick. Ideally, he is suited to a wing where he is given space and freedom to run, carry the ball and bomb goals from 60. His disposal is no worse than Stinger's. Stinger is a very accountable player, a great team man and great in clearances. His disposal was poor, often missing targets and is no better than Mattner's, and he is as one sided as Mattner. Which is precisely why Mattner should not be played in the midfield but on the wing. He needs room to be able to get onto his left and deliver the ball long and needs time to weigh up options and make decisions. He is not suited as an in close player, his strengths and weaknesses suggest this and hence should not be used as a tagger.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

I don't think Mattner can be played as a tagger. He is not an in close player and not tight enough to play in that position.

His best attributes are his ball carrying ability, his pace and the length of his kick. Ideally, he is suited to a wing where he is given space and freedom to run, carry the ball and bomb goals from 60. His disposal is no worse than Stinger's. Stinger is a very accountable player, a great team man and great in clearances. His disposal was poor, often missing targets and is no better than Mattner's, and he is as one sided as Mattner. Which is precisely why Mattner should not be played in the midfield but on the wing. He needs room to be able to get onto his left and deliver the ball long and needs time to weigh up options and make decisions. He is not suited as an in close player, his strengths and weaknesses suggest this and hence should not be used as a tagger.

AFC one-side players:
Mattner
Goodwin
Biglands
Clarke
Bassett
Perrie
Ladhams
Schuback

Co-incidence that a lot are left footers?
Many highly successful players have played the game being predominately one-sided.

 

[snakebite01]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

AFC one-side players:
Mattner
Goodwin
Biglands
Clarke
Bassett
Perrie
Ladhams
Schuback

Co-incidence that a lot are left footers?
Many highly successful players have played the game being predominately one-sided.

It's actually funny trying to imagine those players kick on their opposite foots. Try Clarke for example... Too funny. And Bassett. And pretty much everyone else.

Yes true, Fraser Gehrig springs to mind as a recent example and James Hird is one of the most highly skilled players in recent times but has never used his left foot in his life. It is just important to have the ability to create space and have that extra second that some seem to have [Hird, Jarman (not that he needed it)] to dispose of the ball.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

It's actually funny trying to imagine those players kick on their opposite foots. Try Clarke for example... Too funny. And Bassett. And pretty much everyone else.

Yes true, Fraser Gehrig springs to mind as a recent example and James Hird is one of the most highly skilled players in recent times but has never used his left foot in his life. It is just important to have the ability to create space and have that extra second that some seem to have [Hird, Jarman (not that he needed it)] to dispose of the ball.

Good point on Hird, I heard in a friday night game that no-one has ever seen him kick on his left side - still manages to be in the top half dozen players in the AFL.

 

[PowerKop]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

Ive been trying to say that for weeks

Total_Package called me nuts but I reckon with a good run looking a the draw we can swing 12 games and possibly with luck 14

To quote Big Kev ''I'm excited''

Your only setting yourself up for major dissapointment mate. Aim for the bottom 4 then u won't be so dissapointed, when u actually finish there.

 

[snakebite01]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

Your only setting yourself up for major dissapointment mate. Aim for the bottom 4 then u won't be so dissapointed, when u actually finish there.

Are you still here?

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

Your only setting yourself up for major dissapointment mate. Aim for the bottom 4 then u won't be so dissapointed, when u actually finish there.

Mate, you were kinda amusing a few days ago, but that has worn off now, now you are just a troll, showing no respect at all. (if you werent already )

 

[Macca19]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

Your only setting yourself up for major dissapointment mate. Aim for the bottom 4 then u won't be so dissapointed, when u actually finish there.

Come on give it a rest now. You arent impressing anyone.

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

Come on give it a rest now. You arent impressing anyone.

Amen

 

[- PC -]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

Your only setting yourself up for major dissapointment mate. Aim for the bottom 4 then u won't be so dissapointed, when u actually finish there.

Nah I have a positive mind set...I truly believe the Crows can make the 8..and if they dont I will have a million excuses ready..I tipped Adelaide every week except 1 last year ..and boy wasnt I glad I didnt pick them to beat Brisbane in Brisbane

Oh and if you wanted any other reaction that would have given you some sort of jollification....sorry no can do

 

[Jars458]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

I am a JT fan and have been ever since he first played for us. He is one of the most courageous players on our list and busts his guts for the jumper. I am extremely surprised that people here have jumped on JT's back after he had an injury riddled year. And people forget that JT hasn't missed a game for 5 years prior to this year. He is an integral part of our backline IMHO and I am surprised that people don't rate him.

And Mattner over Torney???????? PLEASE!!!!!!

Exactly, well said.

If Torney is out I think Massie is the ideal replacement ahead of Mattner, who looks good on the outside but scratch the surface and he loses his sheen.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Re: T H E C O N S E N S U S

Nah I have a positive mind set...I truly believe the Crows can make the 8..and if they dont I will have a million excuses ready..I tipped Adelaide every week except 1 last year ..and boy wasnt I glad I didnt pick them to beat Brisbane in Brisbane

You have to admire your optimism PC. Brilliant.

 

[Cap]

did anyone hear craigy say that he wanted to use biglands up forward more in 05' (sorry if this has been mentioned).

were does that leave the likes on hentschel and Watts ? is this telling us that he doesnt think that they will be ready for AFL football 05 ? (well you would think hentschel is considering he played most of the season)

 

[Mad Dog]

did anyone hear craigy say that he wanted to use biglands up forward more in 05' (sorry if this has been mentioned).

were does that leave the likes on hentschel and Watts ? is this telling us that he doesnt think that they will be ready for AFL football 05 ? (well you would think hentschel is considering he played most of the season)

I think Biglands will rest up forward when not on the ball.
If the last 9 rounds are any indication..Clarke will start on the ball...Biglands will start in the pocket to take the tallest defender...try and free up Welshy and co. a bit...then at the 20 min mark Clarkey will go to the bench and Rhett on the ball....and bring on a Jericho or something similar into the fwd line....how innovative.... ....(although I do like a resting ruckman up fwd)

as for Henschel...in a couple of years - he will play where he likes (he's a star)

as for Watts - another year in the SANFL before he's ready IMO