Draft Review 2007 - Redo the 2007 Draft

[eaglespremiers]

McEvoy and Bellchambers haven't shown as much as Kreuzer who has more ability.

Both had better years that Kreuzer.

 

[Ambrosia]

Kreuzer has smashed Mumford and Maric with better alround games due to his mobility and second efforts. Has more weapons and ability than Sauce who is still a plodder with his lack of agility and ability below his knees. Few rucks can match the Bulldozer's agility and alround game.

McEvoy and Bellchambers haven't shown as much as Kreuzer who has more ability. Kreuzer still had 44 hitouts against McEvoy when he needed a minor knee operation.

Warnock has smashed Bellchambers and Ryder as the sole ruck in the finals. Hampson and Warnock also had Hille's and Bellchambers' measure with Kreuzer out.

Strange argument if you're including Robinson and not a Yarran...

Warnock is far and away a better tap ruckman than Kreuzer who while being good below his knees has poor jumping ability and isn't overly strong. The last game in which the two matched up Kreuzer who was pretty much the lone ruck only got 19 hitouts against Belchambers 28.

Edit:Everyone dominates Mcevoy in the hitouts...

 

[Ambrosia]

When he gets back to that level he will again take a massive dump on all 3 ess ruckman. Ryder one of the best centre ruck man but the coach plays him out if the centre. Either you are full of it of Hird is crazy. Happy for either.

What? If you actually watched us play you would realise that he often rucks the entire last quarter because his tap work can be game changing. See the Sydney and ANZAC games.

Edit: Goldstein has never even bested the Essendon ruck duo let alone taken a dump on them.

 

[Sin City]

I am not sure what Kreuzer has done to warrant being ahead of Goldstein, Bellchambers, Ryder or McEvoy.
Certainly has scope for dramatic upside but, on what they have presented in their respective careers, all should basically be ahead of Kreuzer (with no disrespect to his career offset by injuries as it is).

On performance I think he's been better than Bellchambers and McEvoy, equal with Ryder and behind Goldstein who had a bad year but is one of the best rucks in the league. Kreuzer played with a tear in his meniscus for most of the season, let's hope he's back to best consistently next year.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Strange argument if you're including Robinson and not a Yarran...

Well Yarran is also a very classy player not very compareable to Jacobs
I was using Robinson as a solid hardworking grunt in the midfield a simliar player to Jacobs i believe

 

[Browne Eye]

Well why does crazy Hirdy play him as a forward? No chance he smashed Kreuzer - he is in the same 12-15 best rucks. Goldy is much better than any ruckman on your list.

There is more to being a ruckman than hit outs now. Goldstein excels in this area but I watched many games this year where he looked too slow to cope with the pace of the game. Ryder is inconsistent and can definitely be lazy but he doesn't have that problem, and Bellchambers copes with game pace better than Goldy and has equal rucking skills from what I've seen.

You're overrating Goldstein.

 

[Browne Eye]

Todd Goldstein 2012
Average Disposals: 12.2
Average Marks: 2.7
Average Hit Outs: 31.6
Average Tackles: 2.5
Goals: 2

Tom Bellchambers
Average Disposals: 11.6
Average Marks 4.8
Average Hit Outs: 28
Average Tackles: 1.8
Goals: 10

Patrick Ryder
Average Disposals: 13.6
Average Marks: 5.9
Average Hit Outs: 21.9
Average Tackles: 2.5
Goals: 17

Bellchambers and Goldy are similar in their ball winning and hit out skills, but Bellchambers is more of an impact player. He takes more marks and kicks more goals.
Ryder wins more of the ball than both and has the biggest scoreboard impact on games.

One thing is definitely not true, and that is...

Goldy is much better than any ruckman on your list.

 

[TFloyd]

Cotchin #1, all day, everyday day.
Closest thing to Gazza Junior iv seen and still has room to improve.
Cotchin: skills, poise, decision making, speed, work rate, footy smarts, etc etc.
Dangerfield is also a rare beast with his combo of brute strength and incredible speed.
His contested work is incredible.
Amazing how often he will grab the ball in close, have three or four blokes wrap him up, for him to find an avenue out through hands or a clearing kick.
1. Cotchin
2. Dangerfield
3 4 5 Walker, Rioli, Taylor (in any order you like)

At this stage anyway...

 

[Slattery_20]

Well why does crazy Hirdy play him as a forward? No chance he smashed Kreuzer - he is in the same 12-15 best rucks. Goldy is much better than any ruckman on your list.

Essendon rucks vs North rucks, 2012

rd 20 Ess v NM Bellchambers 48 hitouts 9 marks 14 disposals 130 SC points SMASHED Goldstein 34 HO 2 marks 9 disposals 87 SC points

rD 1 NM v Ess Ryder 33 HO 9 marks 20 disposals 165 SC points SMASHED Goldstein 18 HO 1 mark 10 disposals 74 SC points
& Hille 10 HO 10 marks 20 disposals 74 SC points pretty even with McIntosh 11 HO 5 marks 11 disposals 77 SC points

Whoopsey daisy.


I said in one thread or another at the end of last year/start of this one, Bellchambers was no-where near Goldstein to that point, but if he came on, could be just as good.
Not too much between them now.
His work up forward was promising at times, as well. Very hard to outmark.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Whoopsey daisy.

 

[mufassa]

Essendon rucks vs North rucks, 2012

rd 20 Ess v NM Bellchambers 48 hitouts 9 marks 14 disposals 130 SC points SMASHED Goldstein 34 HO 2 marks 9 disposals 87 SC points

rD 1 NM v Ess Ryder 33 HO 9 marks 20 disposals 165 SC points SMASHED Goldstein 18 HO 1 mark 10 disposals 74 SC points
& Hille 10 HO 10 marks 20 disposals 74 SC points pretty even with McIntosh 11 HO 5 marks 11 disposals 77 SC points

Whoopsey daisy.


I said in one thread or another at the end of last year/start of this one, Bellchambers was no-where near Goldstein to that point, but if he came on, could be just as good.
Not too much between them now.
His work up forward was promising at times, as well. Very hard to outmark.

They got close after a poor year from Goldy - if he gets back to 2011 then it is see you later again and the gap becomes massive.

 

[Slattery_20]

They got close after a poor year from Goldy - if he gets back to 2011 then it is see you later again and the gap becomes massive.

The old "you're not any good, we just played badly" trick

Goldy got spanked. Twice. Two separate players. Just as he got spanked against WCE and a few other guys. Admit it, you can stop tying yourself into knots defending the indefensible.
Liberating.

 

[Browne Eye]

They got close after a poor year from Goldy - if he gets back to 2011 then it is see you later again and the gap becomes massive.

You're assuming that Bellchambers doesn't keep improving.
And ridiculously underrating Ryder.

 

[GarnerSmash]

The old "you're not any good, we just played badly" trick

Goldy got spanked. Twice. Two separate players. Just as he got spanked against WCE and a few other guys. Admit it, you can stop tying yourself into knots defending the indefensible.
Liberating.

Goldy had a poor year in comparison to his 2011 season. It was evident from as early as the NAB cup clash against the Dogs that something was nqr. His contested work was down as was his impact around the ground. This continued for pretty much all of 2012.

What is also a fact is that Bellchambers is a very good prospect who took some big strides in 2012 and toweled Goldstein up when they clashed this year. He should be the Essendon number 1, no question.

How do they compare? Well, I'd take Goldy's best over Bellchambers best.

 

[Slattery_20]

Goldy had a poor year in comparison to his 2011 season. It was evident from as early as the NAB cup clash against the Dogs that something was nqr. His contested work was down as was his impact around the ground. This continued for pretty much all of 2012.

What is also a fact is that Bellchambers is a very good prospect who took some big strides in 2012 and toweled Goldstein up when they clashed this year. He should be the Essendon number 1, no question.

How do they compare? Well, I'd take Goldy's best over Bellchambers best.

See, KA? You can actually be a North supporter and a real, actual person rather than a cardboard cut-out.

 

[GarnerSmash]

See, KA? You can actually be a North supporter and a real, actual person rather than a cardboard cut-out.

Just don't leave me out in the rain.

 

[mufassa]

You're assuming that Bellchambers doesn't keep improving.
And ridiculously underrating Ryder.

You are assuming Bellchambers does not go backward.

Ryder is 12-15 best ruckman in the AFL. Do you have him is the top 3?

 

[Astro Bomber]

What has a 2007 draft redo come to a discussion about essendon?... oh hi mufassa.

 

[mufassa]

Top 10 ruckmen:
1. Dean Cox
2. Sam Jacobs
3. Ivan Maric
4. Nic Naitanui
5. Shane Mumford
6. Aaron Sandilands
7. Patrick Ryder
8. Todd Goldstein
9. Tom Bellchambers
10. Matthew Kreuzer

There you go, he makes it in I reckon.
8 - 10 is pretty tight.

It all started here Astro Boy. LOL - Ryder and Bellchambers in the top 10.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

It all started here Astro Boy. LOL - Ryder and Bellchambers in the top 10.

Bellchambers beat Maric, Jacobs, Goldstein and Kreuzer throughout the year.
Ryder beat Goldstein and Mumford easily when playing number one ruck.

You're definitely in the top 10 rucks if you can do that.

 

[stormee]

Possible bias here, but anyone else think Chris Mayne could slot into the 11-20 category in this draft? Seems to have been missed completely so far.

 

[Astro Bomber]

It all started here Astro Boy. LOL - Ryder and Bellchambers in the top 10.

I guess you didn't start it. But you somehow turned up on time.

 

[mufassa]

Bellchambers beat Maric, Jacobs, Goldstein and Kreuzer throughout the year.
Ryder beat Goldstein and Mumford easily when playing number one ruck.

You're definitely in the top 10 rucks if you can do that.

Gee you must have got excited when Bolton beat Goodes. Bellchambers was not named in the best V Maric, Jacobs and Kreuzer. Both he and Goldy were named in the best in round 20. So when you say "beat" do you mean got close enough to be ok?? Funny how its only the Essendon supporters putting Belly in the top 10. Over-rated!!!

 

[mufassa]

Possible bias here, but anyone else think Chris Mayne could slot into the 11-20 category in this draft? Seems to have been missed completely so far.

Agree - his goal kicking is elite.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Gee you must have got excited when Bolton beat Goodes. Bellchambers was not named in the best V Maric, Jacobs and Kreuzer. Both he and Goldy were named in the best in round 20. So when you say "beat" do you mean got close enough to be ok?? Funny how its only the Essendon supporters putting Belly in the top 10. Over-rated!!!

Being named in the bests is simply one persons opinion, no idea why you value it highly. Bellchambers beat Maric, Jacobs, Goldstein and Kreuzer as a sole ruck, whether he was named in the best in an article which shows the views of one person is not much evidence.