2009 National Draft

[Number32]

So what does the GC actually get in next years draft?

I hope not too much because i believe we need another solid year of drafting to be fully re-built

Thoughts?

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

Nothing. Or in other words, zero, nada, zilch, same as the number of girls Bill Gates would've slept with if he didn't start up Microsoft.

They are allowed to sign a few 17y.o. who aren't eligible for the draft, but they have NO picks in the draft.

The only change to next years draft is the age players need to be eligible has moved from 30 April the following year to 31 December of the draft year. Which would mean that if that rule was in this year players like Watts, Sidebottom, Ziebell, Blease, Johnston all would've been ineligible. Sidebottom would've missed out by 2 days

 

[master bate]

It will be a smaller talent pool which means every pick will be weakened a bit and the late picks the equivalent of a rookie selections in many years. That's why most clubs stocked up on youth this year. As for us the top end talent should still be okay, and then we should hopefully have enough stocked up to build for a premiership. The gold coast could be quite useful for us in trimming some of the more successful teams, and screwing the teams that will be the next to take there turn down the bottom (Saints, Roos???). We just have to make sure that after next year we have 95% of a premiership list lined up, and we have built a purpose in the group so half of them don't leave for the cash.

 

[Colin Grigson]

Nothing. Or in other words, zero, nada, zilch, same as the number of girls Bill Gates would've slept with if he didn't start up Microsoft.

lol! I think the only woman Bill Gates has ever slept with is his wife

I don't think a motherboard counts...

 

[bomba4eva]

See this is what I really dislike. The pathetic attitude that Demons 'fans' all seem to have about wanting the club to get the PP next year. You have already given up and the only optimism is over the draftees you now have and may receive next year. Seems like everyone will be going into next year and from Round 1 wanting to lose. I have noticed this disgraceful attitude throughout this site by Melbourne supporters and it is embarrassing and a blight on our game. You may well 'earn' a PP through being a terrible team but the horrible thing is that you all welcome another humiliating season

 

[Bartram_Class]

Don't even bother taking the bait.

Not worth it.

 

[Beats]

Don't even bother taking the bait.

Not worth it.

I still feel like doing it even though I know the troll won't come back to read it...
Bleh, I'm going to just to give a good justification for any Melbourne supporters who will potentially adopt this 'attitude' in the future.

What's the point of being positive about next year?
Already the majority of opposition supporters have written us off for the wooden spoon, and no-one expects us to climb out of the bottom four(bar a miracle), let alone the bottom half of the ladder.
We may as well resign ourselves to this and be realistic, sure I want to go and watch my team perform succesfully, it's the best remedy for my ailing club, but that success is very very unlikely to come next year, the next best remedy is to build the team from the ground up and then success will come, and next year will be our 3rd year of that, after next year I doubt you will hear a Melbourne supporter say that we're stuffed for the coming year, and you will definitely not hear a supporter say they want to finish down the bottom.
I could go on about how our run down the bottom has been perfect timing as next years draft is likely to be the only good draft for the 'original 16' teams and that any teams down the bottom after next year are seriously screwed as they will not be able to rebuild through the draft due to the new teams, and that if we were to take next year as an opportunity we would most likely set ourselves up for an extremely dominant period which can be juxtaposed against a mediocre one if we do not get decent draft picks next year, I could go on about how our premiership drought is driving our supporters to want dominance, not just mediocrity.
Instead I will raise another point, What is the predicted amount of games we could win if everything goes right for us next year? I'm assuming it's around 6-7, but optimistically speaking let's say 8.
Where does 8 wins get us next year? And what do we have to do to get those 8 wins?
8 wins would likely get us a ladder position of 11-12, which translates to picks, 5-6, 21-22 etc. For a club which everyone labels as 'rebuilding' why would we want those picks, when we could instead receive picks 1, 2/3, 17/18 etc, with which we could completely top up our list and prepare ourselves for a full tilt premiership assault in 2011-2012?
As for what would we have to do to get those wins, in short, what we would do would be extremely unbeneficial for the club. Players like Wheatley, Bruce, Robertson etc are all still highly valued effective players, but they won't be around for our next premiership side, and to get those 8 wins the core of our team would be made up of ageing players who don't factor into future plans. This would be at the expense of younger players for who the match experience would be an extremely valuable asset.
So those 8 wins get us 11-12, pick 5-6. But look at the end of the year, when the players who got us those wins are talking about retiring, where does that leave us then? With a massive amount of untried youngsters ready to come into the side in 2010, and I can predict where that will get us, another extremely mediocre finish in 2010, when it will be a terrible time to have a low draft pick.

So my argument in short -
Go all out, get 8 wins(max) playing older players who will retire in the next 2 years, get pick 5-6 and 21-22, likely to finish the same position in 2010 and slightly higher in 2011/12(and get screwed over in these drafts).
Vs.
Play youngsters and nurture the list, get 4(wins) playing youngsters who are in our future plans, get picks 1, 2/3, 17/18 to top up our list, finish 9-11 in 2010 and top 4 in 2011/12.

Or another argument if that one doesn't sway you over -
Where do you honestly see us finishing next year? If it's in the finals disregard everything I've said, If it's very much in contention for the finals, ie 7-10, disregard everything I've said. But I would put money on it not being either of those. What's the point of finishing middle of the road, Knowing we are not in contention for finals(which we all know we aren't) from the start of the year and not getting high draft picks in recompense for it?

 

[Bring-Back-Powell]

See this is what I really dislike. The pathetic attitude that Demons 'fans' all seem to have about wanting the club to get the PP next year.

Hmm, winning 5-7 games next year (which is what will probably happen to Essendon) and finishing an awesome 14th, or win 4 games get the PP and picks 1 and 2 next year.

Gee I wonder which option is the smarter one

 

[Pipefitter]

A winning culture wins flags not tanking. They day carlton wins a premiership with this list i stand corrected.

 

[richskee]

So whos in the 09 draft??? Names?Info?

I know the name Butcher has been thrown around, but dont have a clue about him.

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

A winning culture wins flags not tanking. They day carlton wins a premiership with this list i stand corrected.

With the list they've built i think you may stand to be corrected several times

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

So whos in the 09 draft??? Names?Info?

I know the name Butcher has been thrown around, but dont have a clue about him.

It's been said plenty of times before, but Butcher, Scully & Lucas (the latter 2 both mids) are the earlier favourites for top 3. Couple of others Stevens, Bastinac, Christensen, Morabito are a few other names that have been suggested as top 10 picks.

If you want more in depth info go to the D&T board and there's a thread on '09 prospects.

 

[The Dr]

I still feel like doing it even though I know the troll won't come back to read it...
Bleh, I'm going to just to give a good justification for any Melbourne supporters who will potentially adopt this 'attitude' in the future.

What's the point of being positive about next year?
Already the majority of opposition supporters have written us off for the wooden spoon, and no-one expects us to climb out of the bottom four(bar a miracle), let alone the bottom half of the ladder.
We may as well resign ourselves to this and be realistic, sure I want to go and watch my team perform succesfully, it's the best remedy for my ailing club, but that success is very very unlikely to come next year, the next best remedy is to build the team from the ground up and then success will come, and next year will be our 3rd year of that, after next year I doubt you will hear a Melbourne supporter say that we're stuffed for the coming year, and you will definitely not hear a supporter say they want to finish down the bottom.
I could go on about how our run down the bottom has been perfect timing as next years draft is likely to be the only good draft for the 'original 16' teams and that any teams down the bottom after next year are seriously screwed as they will not be able to rebuild through the draft due to the new teams, and that if we were to take next year as an opportunity we would most likely set ourselves up for an extremely dominant period which can be juxtaposed against a mediocre one if we do not get decent draft picks next year, I could go on about how our premiership drought is driving our supporters to want dominance, not just mediocrity.
Instead I will raise another point, What is the predicted amount of games we could win if everything goes right for us next year? I'm assuming it's around 6-7, but optimistically speaking let's say 8.
Where does 8 wins get us next year? And what do we have to do to get those 8 wins?
8 wins would likely get us a ladder position of 11-12, which translates to picks, 5-6, 21-22 etc. For a club which everyone labels as 'rebuilding' why would we want those picks, when we could instead receive picks 1, 2/3, 17/18 etc, with which we could completely top up our list and prepare ourselves for a full tilt premiership assault in 2011-2012?
As for what would we have to do to get those wins, in short, what we would do would be extremely unbeneficial for the club. Players like Wheatley, Bruce, Robertson etc are all still highly valued effective players, but they won't be around for our next premiership side, and to get those 8 wins the core of our team would be made up of ageing players who don't factor into future plans. This would be at the expense of younger players for who the match experience would be an extremely valuable asset.
So those 8 wins get us 11-12, pick 5-6. But look at the end of the year, when the players who got us those wins are talking about retiring, where does that leave us then? With a massive amount of untried youngsters ready to come into the side in 2010, and I can predict where that will get us, another extremely mediocre finish in 2010, when it will be a terrible time to have a low draft pick.

So my argument in short -
Go all out, get 8 wins(max) playing older players who will retire in the next 2 years, get pick 5-6 and 21-22, likely to finish the same position in 2010 and slightly higher in 2011/12(and get screwed over in these drafts).
Vs.
Play youngsters and nurture the list, get 4(wins) playing youngsters who are in our future plans, get picks 1, 2/3, 17/18 to top up our list, finish 9-11 in 2010 and top 4 in 2011/12.

Or another argument if that one doesn't sway you over -
Where do you honestly see us finishing next year? If it's in the finals disregard everything I've said, If it's very much in contention for the finals, ie 7-10, disregard everything I've said. But I would put money on it not being either of those. What's the point of finishing middle of the road, Knowing we are not in contention for finals(which we all know we aren't) from the start of the year and not getting high draft picks in recompense for it?

Well said mate, you've hit the nail on the head. I can take one more year of pain if we can get a list capable of seriously challenging for a flag. I think we're all sick of the apparent satisfaction a few finals series that Daniher brought us without ever really building a list ready to challenge for flags over an extended period.

Sure, if we have a year out of the box, and challenge for a finals place, I would take that over draft picks any day.

But I'd rather another couple of gems in the draft than finish 12/13/14 whatever.

 

[whelan=legend]

.....

Awesome post Beats, my thoughts exactly. I tip Melbourne and Essendon next make finals the same year (2010).

Considering we havent made finals since 2006, and they haven't since 2004, we have done a much quicker and more efficient rebuild.

Who cares if people label it 'tanking'. I want what's best for my club. If we win 5 games next year i will go mental.

 

[RandB]

What's the point of being positive about next year?

The point of being positive next year isn't just about where we finish on the ladder. I want to watch the younger players improve over a season. I agree whole heartedly about playing mostly young players as much as reasonably possible but not so that we hardly win but to see genuine improvment in them.

We will not win 8 games at all IMO. 5 or 6 maximum I reckon and even then Bailey will still be moving players around so we won't have a settled team.

I agree that on paper we have nothing to gain by finishing with 5 or more wins with regard to the draft and I want high picks as well but it is out of our control so all we can do is sit back and watch the team. We got belted a lot this year, if we can be a bit more competitive in those sorts of games then that is a good step forward. We'll still lose roughly the same amount of games but we don't have to have our noses rubbed in it like we did a few times this year - which I think didn't sit well with anyone at all, especially the coach.

 

[jackmac7]

Let face it,

You guys want to be as bad as you can next year before GC17 and WS start raping the drafts from 2010 - 2012.

You have a solid backline forming so the Dees will probably get pick #1 or #2 next year to get another Power forward to go with watts. Play heaps of kids and maybe you might get 2 picks inside the top 10, then you can get another gun midfielder.

You have plenty of young mids at the moment and a solid young backline with some tall timber down back.

I think you might have to many small forwards like Maric, Jetta, Aussie etc..... and not enough medium forwards in the mould of a O'Keefe or Robbo.

But Melbourne will be a tough team to beat in few years. Way ahead of Essendon in my opinion when you look at how bad the don's midfield is and they are praying on Gumbleton to kick their goals if he can ever get out there.

 

[Clean Heels]

Beats..

Great Post..

 

[bomba4eva]

I still feel like doing it even though I know the troll won't come back to read it...
Bleh, I'm going to just to give a good justification for any Melbourne supporters who will potentially adopt this 'attitude' in the future.

What's the point of being positive about next year?
Already the majority of opposition supporters have written us off for the wooden spoon, and no-one expects us to climb out of the bottom four(bar a miracle), let alone the bottom half of the ladder.
We may as well resign ourselves to this and be realistic, sure I want to go and watch my team perform succesfully, it's the best remedy for my ailing club, but that success is very very unlikely to come next year, the next best remedy is to build the team from the ground up and then success will come, and next year will be our 3rd year of that, after next year I doubt you will hear a Melbourne supporter say that we're stuffed for the coming year, and you will definitely not hear a supporter say they want to finish down the bottom.
I could go on about how our run down the bottom has been perfect timing as next years draft is likely to be the only good draft for the 'original 16' teams and that any teams down the bottom after next year are seriously screwed as they will not be able to rebuild through the draft due to the new teams, and that if we were to take next year as an opportunity we would most likely set ourselves up for an extremely dominant period which can be juxtaposed against a mediocre one if we do not get decent draft picks next year, I could go on about how our premiership drought is driving our supporters to want dominance, not just mediocrity.
Instead I will raise another point, What is the predicted amount of games we could win if everything goes right for us next year? I'm assuming it's around 6-7, but optimistically speaking let's say 8.
Where does 8 wins get us next year? And what do we have to do to get those 8 wins?
8 wins would likely get us a ladder position of 11-12, which translates to picks, 5-6, 21-22 etc. For a club which everyone labels as 'rebuilding' why would we want those picks, when we could instead receive picks 1, 2/3, 17/18 etc, with which we could completely top up our list and prepare ourselves for a full tilt premiership assault in 2011-2012?
As for what would we have to do to get those wins, in short, what we would do would be extremely unbeneficial for the club. Players like Wheatley, Bruce, Robertson etc are all still highly valued effective players, but they won't be around for our next premiership side, and to get those 8 wins the core of our team would be made up of ageing players who don't factor into future plans. This would be at the expense of younger players for who the match experience would be an extremely valuable asset.
So those 8 wins get us 11-12, pick 5-6. But look at the end of the year, when the players who got us those wins are talking about retiring, where does that leave us then? With a massive amount of untried youngsters ready to come into the side in 2010, and I can predict where that will get us, another extremely mediocre finish in 2010, when it will be a terrible time to have a low draft pick.

So my argument in short -
Go all out, get 8 wins(max) playing older players who will retire in the next 2 years, get pick 5-6 and 21-22, likely to finish the same position in 2010 and slightly higher in 2011/12(and get screwed over in these drafts).
Vs.
Play youngsters and nurture the list, get 4(wins) playing youngsters who are in our future plans, get picks 1, 2/3, 17/18 to top up our list, finish 9-11 in 2010 and top 4 in 2011/12.

Or another argument if that one doesn't sway you over -
Where do you honestly see us finishing next year? If it's in the finals disregard everything I've said, If it's very much in contention for the finals, ie 7-10, disregard everything I've said. But I would put money on it not being either of those. What's the point of finishing middle of the road, Knowing we are not in contention for finals(which we all know we aren't) from the start of the year and not getting high draft picks in recompense for it?

I understand the lure of picks 1 and 2 but the attitude of going into a season hoping to cop losses right from the start is baffling and goes against supporting your team. Sure after maybe being 2-9 you can start thinking about the PP but 3-4 months before the season even begins wanting your team to come rock bottom?
You are correct in me thinking you are destined for the bottom 2 with the spoon likely but the thought process of already welcoming the spoon is what annoys me and makes me feel little sympathy for your club.

This attitude so long before the season has started is distasteful but if you are happy to see your team thumped every week then good for you

Good luck next season

 

[smithos]

Nothing. Or in other words, zero, nada, zilch, same as the number of girls Bill Gates would've slept with if he didn't start up Microsoft.

They are allowed to sign a few 17y.o. who aren't eligible for the draft, but they have NO picks in the draft.

The only change to next years draft is the age players need to be eligible has moved from 30 April the following year to 31 December of the draft year. Which would mean that if that rule was in this year players like Watts, Sidebottom, Ziebell, Blease, Johnston all would've been ineligible. Sidebottom would've missed out by 2 days

In other words, the rest of the comp picks from a vastly inferior talent pool to previous years while the GC have the ability to sign the best bottom aged players in the land for nothing. So if the rule had have been brought in this year, you guys wouldn't have been able to draft the player you felt was the best in the land. I wouldn't describe that as 'nothing'.

 

[Beats]

In other words, the rest of the comp picks from a vastly inferior talent pool to previous years while the GC have the ability to sign the best bottom aged players in the land for nothing. So if the rule had have been brought in this year, you guys wouldn't have been able to draft the player you felt was the best in the land. I wouldn't describe that as 'nothing'.

I thought that it was only NT and QLD 17 y.o's who were able to be signed by them next year? There's only 1-2 standouts from the QLD/NT crop atm apparently...

 

[McLean_4_Captain]

I thought that it was only NT and QLD 17 y.o's who were able to be signed by them next year? There's only 1-2 standouts from the QLD/NT crop atm apparently...

That was this year, next year they can sign 17 y.o's from anywhere, but i think you'll find that most of the top kids will knock them back, just like local boy Beams did this year.

If the kids are good enough & know they're going to be drafted, they'll take their chances. Maybe they'll get 2 or 3 of the best 25 kids, but even that many i'd be surprised, i'd say that most the kids they sign would be 30+ picks in 2010.