2012 Draft Discussion

[Skoob]

but to me it seems, out of fear of Brown's departure and the fact we missed out on Hogan, that we are loading up on pretty much the same sized player in the hope that 'one' may stand up as his replacement. We brought in Lisle and Longer (to a lesser extent, albeit a ruckman) last year and then brought in Martin and drafted Paprone and Close who are all pretty similar. Sure one may stand up, but gee, to bring in 5 very similar players who you wouldn't classify as elite is pretty short-sighted in my opinion. In my opinion, this recent strategy smacks of paranoia and suggests we don't trust that any one of the recent additions (Lisle, Longer, Martin, Paparone and Close) is capable, so therefore bring in as many as possible and cross our fingers that at least one will step up.

.

I am happy with this strategy if that is in fact the case (though I don't think that has been the sole consideration).
The alternative is to pin your hopes on a single individual and when that doesn't work out, where is your depth? What is your plan B? Say we concentrate our efforts on getting one KPF hopeful, we put 2-3 years development into him only to find his ceiling isn't high enough. How long has Ace been on our list, and still not sure what he may or may not provide. I think that is what they call 'putting all your eggs in one basket'. Happy to have half a dozen to work with and weed out the duds. At the same time, these boys will be quite possibly proficient in other roles. All have played in other positions than their 'main' and are what is described as 'versatile'.
Nup, very happy to see how they go and with their inclusions.

 

[Skoob]

As for Mayes. I'm not excited. Reminds me of Polec too much, being that soft outside player without a mature hard body. And before you level all sorts of attacks my way, as is the custom around here, I don't mean 'soft' in the sense that he blatantly shirks the contest. I was really hoping Port would go local so that we got Wines, the type of physical and agressive player I like and suspect Mayes is not. To be honest, I would have rathered a guy like Hrovat over Mayes., but happy to cut him some slack and hope, like the others, prove me completely wrong.

But, that being said, I 100% agree with Wallace.

Good of you to state what you don't mean. Would be helpful if you explained what you do mean.
If Polec is "soft" I'll take that as meaning silky and sublime.

 

[Triple R]

Each to their own really, but I sadly agree with Wallace's comments on this occasion.

I have been left scratching my head since last night questioning the same thing. I'm not going to knock the lads we brought in yesterday, but to me it seems, out of fear of Brown's departure and the fact we missed out on Hogan, that we are loading up on pretty much the same sized player in the hope that 'one' may stand up as his replacement. We brought in Lisle and Longer (to a lesser extent, albeit a ruckman) last year and then brought in Martin and drafted Paprone and Close who are all pretty similar. Sure one may stand up, but gee, to bring in 5 very similar players who you wouldn't classify as elite is pretty short-sighted in my opinion. In my opinion, this recent strategy smacks of paranoia and suggests we don't trust that any one of the recent additions (Lisle, Longer, Martin, Paparone and Close) is capable, so therefore bring in as many as possible and cross our fingers that at least one will step up.

Like others have said, I would have felt a whole lot better about how we performed at the draft had the types of players drafted varied, with reference to the similarities between Paporone and Close after also brining in Martin and Lisle.

As for Mayes. I'm not excited. Reminds me of Polec too much, being that soft outside player without a mature hard body. And before you level all sorts of attacks my way, as is the custom around here, I don't mean 'soft' in the sense that he blatantly shirks the contest. I was really hoping Port would go local so that we got Wines, the type of physical and agressive player I like and suspect Mayes is not. To be honest, I would have rathered a guy like Hrovat over Mayes., but happy to cut him some slack and hope, like the others, prove me completely wrong.

But, that being said, I 100% agree with Wallace.

Ok, just making it clear...you agree with Terry Wallace? Really?

That aside, I strongly doubt when Mayes fills out (especially at his height) he will be a soft footballer. That being said, is he really soft? Have you seen him play or is it just the highlight reel you are going off? He has the skill already and fills a need as a goal kicking forward/mid. It was stated at the start of the trade period that we were looking for another outside midfielder. We didn't trade one so we got one with our first pick in the draft, and by the looks of him a rather good one that has versatility. To be honest he really reminds me of Nathan Fyfe, really long arms, great mark, good kick, smart and is able to do that something special.

All of the tall forwards we have traded for or drafted in the past 2 years have their flaws but they can be worked out. If only 1 or 2 of the 5 become something special and another serviceable then the recruiting staff have done their job. Are you expecting we clone J Brown? Which other truly elite KPFs have we drafted in his time at the club? Who would you have picked?

I was rather excited that we took Paparone, his disposal is sometimes hit and miss but he knows how and where to lead. He has a big tank and knows where the goals are, even when he is crumbing packs. How many KPFs have you seen do something like that?

Close, drafted because of fitness, size, disposal and competitiveness. I see two of those traits in Retzlaff and Cornelius. With both of the boys drafted last night there is a willingness to commit the body to attain a high level of fitness. The application is there; a little something that is not always in drafted footballers and has not been the case of Ace (that rhymed, unintentional).

Who would you have drafted?

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Polec will be my whipping boy for 2013 (Even over Polka), He just has way to much talent and needs to take the next step already for crying out loud!

Why do you feel you need a whipping boy? I find that rather sad.

 

[jackess]

Just because you're an outside mid doesn't mean that you're soft.

 

[Judge]

I would have thought that life's hard enough without having pessimism as your default setting, but maybe that's just me.

It must be conflicting to almost hope your football team fails for the sake of vindication.

FFS.....

 

[Skoob]

Why do you feel you need a whipping boy? I find that rather sad.

He's studying to be a priest. Don't judge.

 

[JasRulz63]

Don't know if it's been mentioned but Herald Sun's Sam Landsberger's thoughts on the Lions' draft;

Sam Landsberger:
Hi Daniel, from a needs basis I like what they did.

Some clubs rated Sam Mayes a top-five talent with the classy half-forward who marks strongly and kicks goals sliding past the Dogs and Port, who both showed serious interest.

They also addressed a need at 23, nabbing big forward Marco Paparone, with an eye to Jonathan Brown’s career drawing to a close.

The 193cm target boasts elite endurance and creativity, while Michael Close is raw but can play as a leading forward and pinch-hit in the ruck.

Lions get a tick from me.

 

[KeSter]

I'm excited about Mayes but I like your comparison to Polec.

Polec will be my whipping boy for 2013 (Even over Polka), He just has way to much talent and needs to take the next step already for crying out loud!

Since Mayes will probably start in the forward line unlike Polec, I'm hoping that will make his adjustment to AFL standard easier and he can grow from there.

You know this reminds me of why Moloney said he was so happy to come play with us, 'cause he was told he would be allowed to play his natural game.

Polec is an outside mid, case closed; even Richy rich is more damaging out there.

With enough supply he will show his wares.

This 'total football' idea where everyone can play in any position will pass, just like it did in European soccer.

Especially after the bench rotations get capped, as Vlad was overheard saying when he thought the mics were off!

 

[karix]

Each to their own really, but I sadly agree with Wallace's comments on this occasion.

I have been left scratching my head since last night questioning the same thing. I'm not going to knock the lads we brought in yesterday, but to me it seems, out of fear of Brown's departure and the fact we missed out on Hogan, that we are loading up on pretty much the same sized player in the hope that 'one' may stand up as his replacement.

But, that being said, I 100% agree with Wallace.

I'm not going to tear you down, or attack you for your opinion. But if you think the decisions were bad. Who would you have taken with our picks?

And who would you have traded for if not the guys we went after?

I find it hard to believe that the solution to our list weaknesses/problems was available to us and we missed it. That seems to be the position you're taking though, that somehow we failed, and missed other options that were clearly better.

I'm happy for you to correct me on this, but I doubt very much that you can.

I will tear you down for agreeing with Wallace though. He's a fool, and very regularly he is very wrong. In fact he doesn't often get much right, or offer any actual insight, his contributions are typically regurgitated opinions of others, or vague and/or obvious observations. Agreeing with him does bring your own judgement into question

 

[Toffee Lion]

Why do you feel you need a whipping boy? I find that rather sad.

Why does it bother you? I find that rather sad.

 

[KeSter]

He's studying to be a priest. Don't judge.

 

[Nuggo]

Versatility in our forward line has been sadly lacking. It would appear on paper we have addressed this. Kerr mentioned that we got the players we were after. If this is true than one can only suggest that draft day was a success.

 

[Offsider]

My thoughts on our draft:

Overall I thought that we did ok, not great imo but not poor either. I think that all of our picks have a certain degree of risk, and there is uncertainty over what position they will end up, but the talent is definitely there.

Sam Mayes - I though that this was a great pick up, I rated him at 5 personally and was surprised that he got past the Dogs, although I thought that Port did the right thing in picking Wines up, I rated him at 4. I think that he is capable of playing some senior footy next year, probably as a medium forward who pushes up the ground. He needs to put on a bit of weight but I think that he will never be a huge player. Best case scenario imo is that he turns out like Pendlebury, only better as a forward, at worst we have picked up a very good medium forward and good flanker. Rating - A

Marco Paparone - I am a bit unsure on this pick, personally I think it was a bit early, I had more at the early thirties. Nevertheless I can understand why the club picked him up, he has a ton of potential and a lot of things going for him. His endurance, ability to find the ball, clean hands below the knees and athleticism are all really good positives, i really like the fact that as a KPF he can get midfield like numbers. I am unsure of where he will play, and think that he may be a wide roaming CHF or even a tall winger. I do think this will be a risky pick though as I feel that his disposal needs a lots of work (fixable imo), and his marking especially contested marking needs a lot of work. I also worry that he is not really a physical presence which is what we lack in the forward line. But he does have his uses elsewhere probably as a utility type imo. Rating - B-

Michael Close - I am also a bit unsure on this pick, it wasn't bad but it wasn't great imo. I can understand with this pick as well, the club wanted a KPF and he was probably the highest rated KPF prospect left. I do believe that the club had its sight set on getting a KPF at this pick so it was purely needs over best available imo. He has a fair bit of upside, missed a lot of the year but showed some very good signs. I see him possibly as a hardworking tall forward, probably CHF. I think he has some great attributes as a forward, he is a big lad, good endurance, good skill set, seems to be a solid mark and reasonable athlete. I don't think that he is particularly fast so will need to work hard and pump multiple leads out to get separation. I think his marking is inconsistent, he can take a pack mark, but drops to many marks for my liking. I think he has a fair bit of upside but is quite a risky pick, I rated him late second/early third round but he was probably the best KPF available at 32 imo. Rating - C+

I thought that our recruiters had a plan in mind and they stuck to it well, we got some talls which we needed, I did rate some small players higher at certain picks. I personally rated Tanner Smith and Adam Carter higher than Close, but the recruiters went with Close. I also rated O'Brien as better than Paparone as I felt he was the better mark, but they play completely different roles. Still you would have to back the recruiters in they see more footy than anyone else. But they are not immune from criticism, and they still do make mistakes, coff Karnezis over Darling coff.

 

[13Beast]

I reckon out of the players we have drafted in the last 3 years Docherty will be the best. Thinking of having something on him for the rising star next year

I think Docherty may be good. But my money is on Billy Longer. He did very well in those games when thrown into the mix as the main ruck last year. Even against Sandilands! (Talk about baptism by fire).

 

[KeSter]

I think Docherty may be good. But my money is on Billy Longer. He did very well in those games when thrown into the mix as the main ruck last year. Even against Sandilands! (Talk about baptism by fire).

Yeps BL's going to be a gun, he will die for his mates judging from his early season antics.

I still think Harwood will surprise a few, that lads going to be one powerful mofo when he stops growing.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Why does it bother you? I find that rather sad.

Answer the question and I'll let you know if it bothers me.

 

[Toffee Lion]

Answer the question and I'll let you know if it bothers me.

For me I want Polec to use the talent he has to get to the next level and in 2013 I'll be watching and judging him more closely then others, Like a lot of people (including myself) did with Polkinghorne this year.

 

[KeSter]

For me I want Polec to use the talent he has to get to the next level and in 2013 I'll be watching and judging him more closely then others, Like a lot of people (including myself) did with Polkinghorne this year.

It's a little vague, what exactly is the 'next level'?

How would you measure this?

 

[13Beast]

For me I want Polec to use the talent he has to get to the next level and in 2013 I'll be watching and judging him more closely then others, Like a lot of people (including myself) did with Polkinghorne this year.

I agree too. If he gets game-time, I want to see him perform. He certainly showed promise last year, yet didn't get too many games. It'd be nice to see him play almost every game this year, so he can be let off his leash.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

For me I want Polec to use the talent he has to get to the next level and in 2013 I'll be watching and judging him more closely then others, Like a lot of people (including myself) did with Polkinghorne this year.

As do i. But it may be that he does not have the mental tools to take advantage of his talents (and perosnally I don't think he does, but will be more than happy to be proven wrong). If that's the case, then it's beyond his control and he does not deserve to be derided for it. It is what it is.

It initally sounded like you felt you needed to select a sacrificial lamb each year to unload frustrations on.

 

[KeSter]

As do i. But it may be that he does not have the mental tools to take advantage of his talents (and perosnally I don't think he does, but will be more than happy to be proven wrong). If that's the case, then it's beyond his control and he does not deserve to be derided for it. It is what it is.

It initally sounded like you felt you needed to select a sacrificial lamb each year to unload frustrations on.

Send 'em my way.

 

[Haso]

I'm seriously looking forward to seeing Close fill out and put a couple of kilograms on. Watching with interest, over here.

 

[Haso]

Looking for Elliot to help Marco out with the transition, as well.

 

[Mr Ripper]

And Marco can return the favour by helping Yeoey with his spelling.