Draft Review 2014 - Redo the 2014 AFL Draft

[Sedat!]

I've barely watched a Saints game the last couple of years and though I watched yesterday's game McCartin didn't play. The way the game has moved in the last 3 years, big strong goalkicking mids are worth their weight in gold as is depth in midfield stocks - 2017 looks like an even more pronounced emphasis on these two elements. On that score Petracca ticks both of those boxes, but who is to say the wheel won't turn again in a couple of years time when someone like McCartin will be approaching his prime as a footballer?

Too early to tell is the answer.

 

[aussierulesrules]

One thing that needs to be taken into account here is that had we not drafted Paddy, we believed we would then need to go out and "buy a KPF" of the sort of quality that we believed Paddy could get to and Boyd had just cost WB a mil a year over 7 years, Buddy had just cost Sydney a mil a year over 9 (?) years (by which time he may be retired!) and even Tippett cost $800K PA, so given that we figured we wouldn't need to pay Paddy anywhere near that for at least 4 years, it left us with hundreds of thousands of dollars in the salary cap over several years that we could "roll over" (by front-ending contracts) and then be in a position to be able to then go out and "buy" a "gun mid" and they tend to be much easier to get your hands on. It's not like there's a Buddy Franklin up for grabs every offseason and even if they are there would be 17 other clubs in the hunt for them!

We may see the payoff for that as soon as this offseason, since we're supposed to have so much salary cap space free it's not funny, and two first rounders as trade currency in this years draft.

So even if Petracca ends up having a better career, it may not matter that much, if not picking him means we didn't have to go out and pay someone a mil a year to play KPF for us, when hopefully Paddy will be able to do so to a good enough level and the money we save can then be spent on someone good enough to make up the difference between him and Petracca.

The only way I see it being a "total bust" is if say concussion ruins his career, but I'm pretty sure we had no inkling that this would be an issue prior to drafting him. Any more than say Melbourne did drafting Angus Brayshaw two picks later, who's had similar concussion issues.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

McCartin is still going to end up a good key forward, he showed some encouraging signs over the last season but he just needs to keep getting games under his belt.

Hopefully this year he doesn't suffer the head knocks he did last year.

Premature thread, he's a KPF starting his 3rd season so judge him at the end of the season and not after a round 1 game that he didn't even play in.

He makes a good point though - regardless how good McCartin ends up the saints could use a Petracca type player. They were monstered in the midfield after quarter time yesterday and looked very undersized - especially when you consider guys the size of Cripps and Bont now getting round as mids. It's not about how good McCartin will be it's whether the saints could have afforded to overlook the "clear" number 1 pick for the majority of the year and a big goal kicking midfield beast. Early picks you always go best player available later picks you go for need. We've learnt that lesson ourselves many times.

 

[Old navy]

Petracca is playing as a forward.

I agree about the prematurity of the thread.

I don't get why so many people are making the KPF Vs MID comparison, Patracca has been playing almost exclusively as high half forward and a very effective one at that, love he's kicking inside 50 very creative.
Even when Max Gawn was asked about Patracca, he said that he sees him more as a natural forward then a midfielder.
With the traits that Patracca has, he can be just as damaging playing as a forward as he would be playing as a mid, may be more so given he's particular skill set.

 

[Cleric]

Paddy isn't even the best forward in that draft.
Who now would take Paddy over Mitch McGovern?

 

[aussierulesrules]

He makes a good point though - regardless how good McCartin ends up the saints could use a Petracca type player.

Here's the thing though. Unless you have GWS or Gold Coast type concessions, you have top 10 picks year after year, or you land a Viney/Liberatore/Wallis/Hunter or 3 on the cheap through father-son, quality lists take a while to build and the way we've largely gone about it is to get the "talls" (who tend to take longer to develop) first and then go for "mids" (who tend to be cheaper, easier to come by and can make an impact sooner) next, which is our primary focus now.

Our list is not a finished product yet and we have two first rounders in this year's draft (maybe two top 10 picks if yesterday is anything to go by!) and as much as a couple of mil in salary cap space (depending on retirements and so-on), so we're now in a position to go mega-hard at the likes of Fyfe/Dusty/Rockliff/Shiel/Kelly/Hopper at the end of the year. If none of the "biggest fish" are willing to come, we can then throw the kitchen sink at someone like Hopper and make him an offer he would find very hard to refuse and easily have the trade currency to get a deal done with GWS.

Worst case scenario may be that we have a couple of early to mid first rounders to use in a very strong looking draft on said "mids", to go with those we already have developing, like Steele (20 games), Gresham (19 games), Acres (26 games), Billings (44), Dunstan (55) and Ross (60) and the more established Steven, Armitage, Newnes and Stevens.

 

[theprospect]

Paddy isn't even the best forward in that draft.
Who now would take Paddy over Mitch McGovern?

Still probably most people, I would imagine.

 

[Cleric]

Still probably most people, I would imagine.

Let's see.

 

[Sylvia Saint]

I think people are forgetting how highly rated McCartin was prior to the draft. I think it's even mentioned in one of Emma Quayle's books that Melbourne rated him #1 ahead of Petracca.

As things turned out, it was a probably a mistake by the Saints and our gain, but that's only with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[Old navy]

Paddy isn't even the best forward in that draft.
Who now would take Paddy over Mitch McGovern?

Haven't seen enough of McGovern to make a educated call, but I'd take Peter Wright and Darcy Moore over McCartin.
Not to say I don't rate McCartin, just rate the other two higher and McCartin's durability is also slightly concerning.

 

[Cleric]

Haven't seen enough of McGovern to make a educated call, but I'd take Peter Wright and Darcy Moore over McCartin.
Not to say I don't rate McCartin, just rate the other two higher and McCartin's durability is also slightly concerning.

I agree, but I have seen a fair bit of McGovern and he is a freak. There is a reason SOS wanted him for Gibbs.
Also, people underestimate the problems diabetes can cause outside of blood sugar.

 

[deerailed]

Here's the thing though. Unless you have GWS or Gold Coast type concessions, you have top 10 picks year after year, or you land a Viney/Liberatore/Wallis/Hunter or 3 on the cheap through father-son, quality lists take a while to build and the way we've largely gone about it is to get the "talls" (who tend to take longer to develop) first and then go for "mids" (who tend to be cheaper, easier to come by and can make an impact sooner) next, which is our primary focus now.

Our list is not a finished product yet and we have two first rounders in this year's draft (maybe two top 10 picks if yesterday is anything to go by!) and as much as a couple of mil in salary cap space (depending on retirements and so-on), so we're now in a position to go mega-hard at the likes of Fyfe/Dusty/Rockliff/Shiel/Kelly/Hopper at the end of the year. If none of the "biggest fish" are willing to come, we can then throw the kitchen sink at someone like Hopper and make him an offer he would find very hard to refuse and easily have the trade currency to get a deal done with GWS.

Worst case scenario may be that we have a couple of early to mid first rounders to use in a very strong looking draft on said "mids", to go with those we already have developing, like Steele (20 games), Gresham (19 games), Acres (26 games), Billings (44), Dunstan (55) and Ross (60) and the more established Steven, Armitage, Newnes and Stevens.

 

[Old navy]

^^Still getting the hang of BF^^

 

[Cleric]

Yep, SOS rates the kid extremely highly, do you think you guys will hold onto him ? from what I understand there may be a big push to get him over to Westcoke, to play with his brother.

It's actually hard to tell. He doesn't seem the type to cut and run, but he is a quite guy who apparently is a bit introverted, unlike Jeremy. He was homesick when he first came over as his mom came over and spent a bit of time with him here.
You would think he would love the opportunity to play his career out with his brother as they are a close family.
It is well known both Freo and WC are into him BIG time. The club has been trying to sign him up but he has resisted till now. Not a great sign. But then with the new CBA coming out most managers are wanting to see what is in that before signing contracts. Not only that but if his manager was worth his salt he would play the WA clubs off against us to get the best coin.
Now while he would love to play with Jeremy he hates WC. And then his father played for Freo and he barracks for them as well. But why move home and not play with your brother?
That's why its a bit hard to read it at the moment.
Also when his name came up at Carlton something happened to spook Adelaide. That along with him not signing has made them nervous.

 

[deerailed]

Here's the thing though. Unless you have GWS or Gold Coast type concessions, you have top 10 picks year after year, or you land a Viney/Liberatore/Wallis/Hunter or 3 on the cheap through father-son, quality lists take a while to build and the way we've largely gone about it is to get the "talls" (who tend to take longer to develop) first and then go for "mids" (who tend to be cheaper, easier to come by and can make an impact sooner) next, which is our primary focus now.

Our list is not a finished product yet and we have two first rounders in this year's draft (maybe two top 10 picks if yesterday is anything to go by!) and as much as a couple of mil in salary cap space (depending on retirements and so-on), so we're now in a position to go mega-hard at the likes of Fyfe/Dusty/Rockliff/Shiel/Kelly/Hopper at the end of the year. If none of the "biggest fish" are willing to come, we can then throw the kitchen sink at someone like Hopper and make him an offer he would find very hard to refuse and easily have the trade currency to get a deal done with GWS.

Worst case scenario may be that we have a couple of early to mid first rounders to use in a very strong looking draft on said "mids", to go with those we already have developing, like Steele (20 games), Gresham (19 games), Acres (26 games), Billings (44), Dunstan (55) and Ross (60) and the more established Steven, Armitage, Newnes and Stevens.

Gresham - skilled but tiny
Steele - tough but can't kick
Acres - Tough But can't kick
Billings - Skilled and soft (ss)
Dunstan - Can't kick
Ross (stanton)
Armitage - can't kick
newnes - Good kick, goes missing
Stevens - Gun
.............. Notice something?....

please point out a victorian club, outside of the 8, who has traded for a midfielder in the caliber of christian petracca? these mids who you seem to think are so easy to come by are not. If you do get one you'll paying them close to a mil a year and same with fatty mcartin if he reaches is potential? what's the difference? I'll tell you.... you're a 10% chance of getting one of those mids.

A strong dominant midfield protects and enhances their back line, it's a lot easier to defend when you're seeing 15 less inside 50s and most coming in, under immense pressure the mids.

Find me a forward that doesn't love it being pumped in 50 odds times, long and fast.

a well prepared and organised defence is as good as any defence full of stars.. it's as simple as the old saying.. a champion team beats a team full of champions. Saints should of built from the midfield out. Now they have the pillars but nothing in between to protect and enhance them. Saints are unskilled but their manic game plan will make them look good against the bottom teams and the softer teams. Any team who can match you for pressure with a touch more skill will polish you up real good. You're list has a long way to go.

cheers,
you've been deerailed

 

[Old navy]

It's actually hard to tell. He doesn't seem the type to cut and run, but he is a quite guy who apparently is a bit introverted, unlike Jeremy. He was homesick when he first came over as his mom came over and spent a bit of time with him here.
You would think he would love the opportunity to play his career out with his brother as they are a close family.
It is well known both Freo and WC are into him BIG time. The club has been trying to sign him up but he has resisted till now. Not a great sign. But then with the new CBA coming out most managers are wanting to see what is in that before signing contracts. Not only that but if his manager was worth his salt he would play the WA clubs off against us to get the best coin.
Now while he would love to play with Jeremy he hates WC. And then his father played for Freo and he barracks for them as well. But why move home and not play with your brother?
That's why its a bit hard to read it at the moment.
Also when his name came up at Carlton something happened to spook Adelaide. That along with him not signing has made them nervous.

That does make things hard to read.
If he does go I'm hearing a first rounder will be the staring price, your forward line is mega stacked, so wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to happen.
Although from what I've seen he does add a point of difference with his contested marking IIRC.
Basically if he does go you should be well compensated and I tip my hat to AFC recruiting of key positions players, absolutely plucking them.
Gives me some real confidents in Harry McKay, as I've heard you guys were very keen on him.

 

[LeverPuller]

Haven't seen enough of McGovern to make a educated call, but I'd take Peter Wright and Darcy Moore over McCartin.
Not to say I don't rate McCartin, just rate the other two higher and McCartin's durability is also slightly concerning.

Jesus, I forgot that Wright was in that draft. Could be a big blue in hindsight.

Anyone remember why he dropped away? I spent the year watching the midfielders myself, didn't pay much attention to the forwards.

 

[Superstar swan]

Mccartin has alot of undeniable talent however imo he is carry quite a bit of extra kgs. Maybe some saints fans can shed a bit of light on the issue

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Mccartin has alot of undeniable talent however imo he is carry quite a bit of extra kgs. Maybe some saints fans can shed a bit of light on the issue

He only weights 95 kilos.

He just has a big arse and is quite stocky compared to Riewoldt, Lynch and Cameron who are more skinny and lean

 

[Old navy]

Jesus, I forgot that Wright was in that draft. Could be a big blue in hindsight.

Anyone remember why he dropped away? I spent the year watching the midfielders myself, didn't pay much attention to the forwards.

IIRC the main knoc on him was his contested marking, for a kid who was 200cm+ he didn't deal well with body contact, considering key forwards that size would traditionally be expected to spilt packs and take big contested marks, think there was a bit of a worry with that and with his agility too.
Too be fair he has improved his agility, but he still isn't the best contested mark, I guess it doesn't really to much, when you play in a forward line with Tom Lynch.
ATM he plays like a 203cm lead up forward, gets a lot of his marks on the lead uncontested.
Emma Quayle did have him a clear number 1 in her rankings.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Yes

 

[dergert]

Just let the damn kids play footy

 

[master bate]

Very premature thread. I love Petracca, but he's not without some issues in his game as well. Everyone's talking him up as a mid - he's barely played there yet and he's hardly a huge goal kicker. Let's ease up a bit on deciding he's all of a sudden Dangerfield/Martin already.

McCartin has shown everything he's needed to show to be worth taking first as well. It's disappointing he hasn't shown it regularly and if that continues it will be an issue but right now he's still on track to be a gun. Hard to criticise as a Melbourne fan when we gladly would've taken him if he was available.

The only criticism I can give St Kilda is a that there was quite a bit of leaking that Petracca had failed a psych profile and was deemed unsuitable to being a number 1 pick. Everything he's done at Melbourne has been humble, respectful, team first and a joy to see. If that was the reason the saints went McCartin then I still think they were wrong to let that information leak in to the public. Especially given McCartin's diabetes has played a big role in holding him back so far. A club wouldn't come out and say they passed over a player due to diabetes regardless of whether it was true or not. There wasn't really any reason to spread word that Petracca was some kind of arrogant idiot who would let it get to him.

 

[Tulip]

The only criticism I can give St Kilda is a that there was quite a bit of leaking that Petracca had failed a psych profile and was deemed unsuitable to being a number 1 pick. Everything he's done at Melbourne has been humble, respectful, team first and a joy to see. If that was the reason the saints went McCartin then I still think they were wrong to let that information leak in to the public. Especially given McCartin's diabetes has played a big role in holding him back so far. A club wouldn't come out and say they passed over a player due to diabetes regardless of whether it was true or not. There wasn't really any reason to spread word that Petracca was some kind of arrogant idiot who would let it get to him.

Brodie Grundy failed the personality test at Melbourne.

Neeld: "Do you think having long hair makes you soft"

Grundy: "What a stupid question"

It has less to do with the result than it does who is doing the testing.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

Wasn't a mistake but if they had their time again I think they would take Petracca. Forward line without McCartin still looks good but their midfield is vanilla as it comes.