Draft Review 2014 - Redo the 2014 AFL Draft

[00Stinger]

Unfortunately, paddy spares no one..

Has he even kicked more than 2 goals in a game?

What is his once in a generational traits? Slowness? Ability to not find the ball? Glass chin?



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[Crusty Demon]

Kid can play. Will be a very dangerous KPF for years to come. Great marking ability and sound kicking action. Just needs to have a decent run with injury. I really like watching him play. Needs to keep on top of the weight as well. Looks a little heavy. But look at Tom Hawkins this year, looks leaner and ready to have a big year. This kid is still only 21, and KPF take time to develop unless a freak like Hogan or Cameron. What is hurting Saints more is the lack of progression from Dunstan and Billings. Both have looked like they could be anything, yet have struggled to take a significant step. Billings you could argue still looks to be heading in the right direction, but Dunstan for me has been disappointing of late. If these midfielders can keep improving, then the McCartin trade looks a winner as they will have a 10 year Full Forward waiting in the goal square.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Would you pick McCartin over Peter Wright?

This is the better question imo

Obviously the recruiters had their reasons

And Wright slid well past pick 1

But he has looked super impressive so far

 

[Ian Dunross]

Has he even kicked more than 2 goals in a game?

What is his once in a generational traits? Slowness? Ability to not find the ball? Glass chin?


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We'll have to defer to your greater experience in blowing early draft picks

But seriously, his traits are great hands, natural forwards' instincts in leading and body on body contesting

Natural footballer, not just a huge kid who can monster his u18 opponents

Good field kick of the footy (needs to polish his set-shot kicking)

I don't think he is a once in a generation forward

But I think he should reach Taylor Walker levels and I think that's a good comparison from a playing style, with a fair bit of Hawkins thrown in

He's a far better contested mark than Walker, but lacks his mobility

Others think he's more like Jarryd Roughead, but I don't see that personally

 

[master bate]

This is the better question imo

Obviously the recruiters had their reasons

And Wright slid well past pick 1

But he has looked super impressive so far

I was surprised the Dees weren't interested in 2m Peter at the time given his height and easy goal kicking would've made him a perfect goal square compliment to Hogan, but I thought Wright was lacking in physicality and killer instinct for such a big man where as Paddy had that covered. Wright's really impressed me and his 2 position status remains a nice bonus as well so he's raised his stock since the draft. All up though it would come down to the medical/fitness appraisal on McCartin. If/when he comes good he'll be very very good.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Wright's ability to play second ruck should have made him more valuable one would think

Players like Jenkins and Wright and Tippet (though much maligned) are rarer than key forwards who can't ruck

But I agree, he didn't look very physical in the u18s

 

[astrodee]

I think McCartin will prove to be a very good KF. I'm very pleased he went #1 as i believe Petracca has the potential to be a great player. Nevertheless, had the picks been reversed, i would not have been too disappointed to have Paddy running around with Hogan.
Both will (injuries allowing) prove to be good picks.

 

[NAB777]

I don't mean to have a go at McCartin here, however I'm starting to think St.Kilda made a mistake selecting him with the #1 pick of the 2014 draft.

All year, Christian Petracca was rated as the clear #1 pick; a beast of a midfielder with elite athleticism and goalscoring ability. In the end, St. Kilda opted to select McCartin because they wanted a key-forward, even though he had more question marks over him than Tom Boyd did the previous year.

Now McCartin could well become a good, or even great player, and I know it's harsh to judge him right now because he didn't play, but in yesterday's game, Melbourne's midfield absolutely smashed St.Kilda's; there was a clear gap in quality. In this modern game, midfield depth is more valuable than ever, and Melbourne probably knew this, which is why they stockpiled them with most of their early picks in the last few years, including both Petracca and Brayshaw in 2014. Meanwhile St.Kilda's only top 10 picks since 2012 have been Billings and McCartin, two forwards (one potentially moving into the midfield); their midfield hasn't changed much on paper, and so far, it's not looking like it's improved much, or at least enough.

Should they have taken Petracca instead? Did they get too hungry for a tall forward?

St Kilda were tossing up between McCartin & Petracca until they met Petracca's family.

 

[Trav 20]

St Kilda were tossing up between McCartin & Petracca until they met Petracca's family.

Wasn't Richardson a friend of the Petracca family ?

 

[NathanMX]

Unlike other teams who blow their early draft picks I have faith in our recruiters. Nick and Brendon were our previous top draft picks and both turned into superstars, and one still is.

McCartin vs Petracca is not Fraser vs Pavlich or Boyd vs Bontempelli or Cotchin vs Franklin even. Paddy will be good in time, and with a great person to learn from in Nick Riewoldt he can be anything. Nick though is one of a kind, so don't expect Paddy to be a like for like replacement, moreso in the Stewart Loewe mould perhaps but with the agility and perhaps a bit of athleticism too like Nick.

Heck there probably would have been fools questioning us even taking Nick top pick at the start given he only played 6 games in his first season....

 

[00Stinger]

Unlike other teams who blow their early draft picks I have faith in our recruiters. Nick and Brendon were our previous top draft picks and both turned into superstars, and one still is.

McCartin vs Petracca is not Fraser vs Pavlich or Boyd vs Bontempelli or Cotchin vs Franklin even. Paddy will be good in time, and with a great person to learn from in Nick Riewoldt he can be anything. Nick though is one of a kind, so don't expect Paddy to be a like for like replacement, moreso in the Stewart Loewe mould perhaps but with the agility and perhaps a bit of athleticism too like Nick.

Heck there probably would have been fools questioning us even taking Nick top pick at the start given he only played 6 games in his first season....

Weird you chose Boyd vs Bontempelli and not Billings v Bontempelli

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[NathanMX]

Weird you chose Boyd vs Bontempelli and not Billings v Bontempelli

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Boyd vs Bontempelli moreso because if GWS had picked Marcus at pick 1 I reckon they would have won the flag last season instead. but was also keeping with past number 1 picks, in Fraser, Cotchin, Boyd, Riewoldt and Goddard.

Billings vs Bontempelli is irrelevant pretty much, even with Marcus we would have been lucky to even make the 8 last season.

 

[00Stinger]

Boyd vs Bontempelli moreso because if GWS had picked Marcus at pick 1 I reckon they would have won the flag last season instead. but was also keeping with past number 1 picks, in Fraser, Cotchin, Boyd, Riewoldt and Goddard.

Billings vs Bontempelli is irrelevant pretty much, even with Marcus we would have been lucky to even make the 8 last season.

You said st kilda do not blow their draft picks and you have confidence in your recruiters. So you are obviously happy you have Billimgs instead of Bontempelli?

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[SterlingArcher]

Weird you chose Boyd vs Bontempelli and not Billings v Bontempelli

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Weird that you were unable to see he was using number 1 draft picks as an example

 

[00Stinger]

Weird that you were unable to see he was using number 1 draft picks as an example

Weird that he said st kilda do not blow their early picks. I was merely pointing out he is obviously happy they have Billings and not Bontempelli

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[NathanMX]

You said st kilda do not blow their draft picks and you have confidence in your recruiters. So you are obviously happy you have Billimgs instead of Bontempelli?

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In the same way Luke Ball gave us what we needed when we could have had Chris Judd instead yes.

Why though do people feel the need to see things in black and white only? Cause we didnt pick Chris Judd or Marcus Bontempelli that means Luke Ball and Jack Billings are pathetic losers are they?

How bout some positivity and hope that both players turn out good? Lord knows after all the picks that have not gone perfectly, eg Watts, Scully, Trengove for starters your mob deserve to find someone ready to be classy right from the start.

Or does there always have to be a bad side to everything.....

 

[00Stinger]

In the same way Luke Ball gave us what we needed when we could have had Chris Judd instead yes.

Why though do people feel the need to see things in black and white only? Cause we didnt pick Chris Judd or Marcus Bontempelli that means Luke Ball and Jack Billings are pathetic losers are they?

How bout some positivity and hope that both players turn out good? Lord knows after all the picks that have not gone perfectly, eg Watts, Scully, Trengove for starters your mob deserve to find someone ready to be classy right from the start.

Or does there always have to be a bad side to everything.....

I just merely pointed out how you have faith in your recruiters to get it right with early picks when they have quite they clearly got Billings wrong. There is no shame in that, no one gets them all right though.

If you had Judd instead of Ball you probably, no definately win either the 09 or 10 premiership or maybe even both

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[citizen-erased]

This is the better question imo

Obviously the recruiters had their reasons

And Wright slid well past pick 1

But he has looked super impressive so far

didn't he go at 5?
McCartin was the clear #2. Saints went with the second best kid because he was a key forward
Personally, i wouldn't. But i get why they did.

 

[Trav 20]

Sounds like someone who is very inconsistent to me, hence going at 50% kicking efficiency last year, scoring very, very badly in the kicking and goalkicking tests at his combine (bottom 10% in the kicking test and bottom 4% in the goalkicking) and having a rep in the juniors for being a poor kick (something that was spoken about plenty on our board prior to his draft, as we debated who we thought we should get). Butchering of kicks is also something I have seen with my own eyes, along with his crackingly good kicks. There is perhaps not much in between.

His consistency may well improve of course, but until it does, it isn't, so that's what we have to go on and it's not like it's only gone down since he joined the AFL and had to adjust to the intensity- it was apparently like this in the juniors against his peers there as well.

Found this from Emma Quayle's second book The Draftees.

Your recruiter Tony Elshaug on Petracca:

At the start of the year you wondered how he’d go with keeping his feet on the ground and he’s been questioned about that along the way, but he's grown up a lot over the year. I think he's a much more level-headed kid now. He lifted the team in a lot of games, he had a lot of good second halves and he’s strong, he has an AFL body. We think he could take a bit more care with his kicks at time. His penetration is fine but sometimes you think, Can you take more than two steps before you kick?, that’s all. He just needs to remember to take more care, but there's nothing actually wrong with it.'

 

[NathanMX]

I just merely pointed out how you have faith in your recruiters to get it right with early picks when they have quite they clearly got Billings wrong. There is no shame in that, no one gets them all right though.

If you had Judd instead of Ball you probably, no definately win either the 09 or 10 premiership or maybe even both

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Is your life so shit you gotta look for the negatives in life rather then the positives? Seriously?

One player does not make a team, no matter how great that player is (eg GAJ). But if you wanna nitpick fine, I change my statement. With our number 1 pick St Kilda does not mess up unlike clubs that pick Tom Scully, Jack Watts, Tom Boyd, Jonathon Patton, Lachie Whitfield, Travis Johnstone, shit how many times can your team f**k up the number 1 draft pick buddy?

Every team can use their draft picks better in hindsight true, but the players we pick in the top 5, outside of injury and misfortune always give something positive to my club. Heck even Xavier Clarke sparkled before his bad luck began, or do you consider Nathan Burke a bad judge of character?

You talk like Jack Billings is Jack Watts and has had 8 years to do something, has not, but is somehow still on our list. Good one.

But in fantasy land yes you could be right. Judd could have had us over the line in 09 and/or 10, but in the same fantasy land who knows if Chris would even have stuck around long enough to get to 2009 at St Kilda. Drafted in 2001, there is no guarantee he would have still even been at my club and not lured away by a Hawthorn on the rise, poached by money bags Sydney (who have a fondness for big names from St Kilda) or by Collingwood even (who have a fondness for midfielders)

Yes, Richmond or the Bulldogs could have drafted Lance Franklin too, but does that automatically mean that he would have been a superstar for them and that they would have won it all in 2008? Or perhaps Alastair Clarkson and the Hawks coaching team may have had something to do with it, something Terry Wallace and Rodney Eade may have not been able to do in the same manner? That perhaps having Jordan Lewis and Jarryd Roughead by his side as they all began their careers may have helped too?

Or can you not grasp the concept that the environment a player is in can often be the difference between stud and dud? Eg put Jack Watts in Geelong 2008 and I reckon he would have blossomed given the different cultures your team and the Cats had end 2008.

 

[00Stinger]

Is your life so shit you gotta look for the negatives in life rather then the positives? Seriously?

One player does not make a team, no matter how great that player is (eg GAJ). But if you wanna nitpick fine, I change my statement. With our number 1 pick St Kilda does not mess up unlike clubs that pick Tom Scully, Jack Watts, Tom Boyd, Jonathon Patton, Lachie Whitfield, Travis Johnstone, shit how many times can your team f**k up the number 1 draft pick buddy?

Every team can use their draft picks better in hindsight true, but the players we pick in the top 5, outside of injury and misfortune always give something positive to my club. Heck even Xavier Clarke sparkled before his bad luck began, or do you consider Nathan Burke a bad judge of character?

You talk like Jack Billings is Jack Watts and has had 8 years to do something, has not, but is somehow still on our list. Good one.

But in fantasy land yes you could be right. Judd could have had us over the line in 09 and/or 10, but in the same fantasy land who knows if Chris would even have stuck around long enough to get to 2009 at St Kilda. Drafted in 2001, there is no guarantee he would have still even been at my club and not lured away by a Hawthorn on the rise, poached by money bags Sydney (who have a fondness for big names from St Kilda) or by Collingwood even (who have a fondness for midfielders)

Yes, Richmond or the Bulldogs could have drafted Lance Franklin too, but does that automatically mean that he would have been a superstar for them and that they would have won it all in 2008? Or perhaps Alastair Clarkson and the Hawks coaching team may have had something to do with it, something Terry Wallace and Rodney Eade may have not been able to do in the same manner? That perhaps having Jordan Lewis and Jarryd Roughead by his side as they all began their careers may have helped too?

Or can you not grasp the concept that the environment a player is in can often be the difference between stud and dud? Eg put Jack Watts in Geelong 2008 and I reckon he would have blossomed given the different cultures your team and the Cats had end 2008.

You realise you originally said your club does not stuff up early picks, i merely pointed out they do/have, both in previous drafts and the 2014 draft. Which i also said was no big deal all clubs do it.

Your response about Franklin and Richmond ext are totally irrelevant to the discussion, but i do appreciate that you needed a 300 odd work response to try to justify your incorrect original statement

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[Seedsfan]

When they went for McCartin neither Membrey nor Bruce had shown anything So they had a 31 year old Roo and no one else. At the time they HAD to select McCartin as they needed a key forward more than they needed a midfielder. We already had selected Hogan so we really didnt need McCartin. So as a Dees supporter I was pumped the 2 midfielders slipped through to us even though McCartin and Hogan would have been an awesome forward line.
Roo still kicked 4 for them last night and was the thing holding their spine together as Membrey and Bruce are 2nd and 3rd forwards who feed off space and mismatches. They still need McCartin to come on, even more so now that Roo may well be hurt

And you also used a top 10 pick on a key forward the next year so you had a clear plan on what you were targeting at the draft over a number of years

 

[NathanMX]

You realise you originally said your club does not stuff up early picks, i merely pointed out they do/have, both in previous drafts and the 2014 draft. Which i also said was no big deal all clubs do it.

Your response about Franklin and Richmond ext are totally irrelevant to the discussion, but i do appreciate that you needed a 300 odd work response to try to justify your incorrect original statement

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You talk like Billings is a complete catastrophe.

If that was a super bad pick why did some Doggies fans even admit they would have been happy if they had drafted Billings at the time? And how does it compare to

1999 Collingwood taking Fraser, Richmond taking Fiora both in front of Matthew Pavlich
2001 Melbourne taking Luke Molan (who) ahead of Nick Dal Santo, Steve Johnson and James Kelly
2004 Deledio, Roughead, Griffen and Tambling before Lance Franklin
2005 Hawthorn take Xavier Ellis one pick before Carlton pick Josh Kennedy and Collingwood take Scott Pendlebury
2007 Melbourne pick Cale Morton at 4, Dangerfield goes at 10, Cyril at 12, Harry Taylor at 17 WTF?
2008 Melbourne pick Jack Watts number 1, Nic Nat goes number 2. Hurley at 5, Sidebottom 11
2009 Melbourne take both Scully and Trengove with the top 2 picks, Dustin Martin goes at 3, Daniel Talia 13, Nat Fyfe at 20
2013 Jack Billings 3, Christian Salem 9, but Patrick Cripps at 13, so if we screwed up so did you guys

So I apologise for doubting your opinion at all buddy, compared to your club Jack Billings vs Marcus Bontempelli is but a drop in the ocean cause your drafting has been truly f**ked up until now. Your club could have had Nic Nat tapping it into the arms of Dusty who then hand passes to Danger who then puts it down the throat of Jack Riewoldt. Gee, hindsight is wonderful aint it

But I for one am glad you finally got some luck in Petracca, I have nothing against your club and wish the Dees well for the rest of the season.

You on the other hand seem to only see the black in my club, heck probably even think we shoulda taken Didak ahead of Roo and Kosi

 

[kranky al]

Its still too early as we saw last year with Tom Boyd. McCartin looks to be a good player, he's just had significant injury issues. If there is a good key forward prospect with a high draft pick its hard to label it as a mistake because you can generally only get these types of players at high draft picks which means you might only have a small window to act while you're at the very bottom of the ladder.

McCartin, Bruce and Membrey may be half of their forward structure for the next decade - I don't think they would be too upset about that.

If its just a player on player comparison then Petracca probably will be a better player (certainly right now he is) but in terms of how valuable they both are I reckon its much less clear cut. You only have to think about the cost Western Bulldogs had to pay to get Tom Boyd all because they only had pick #4 (which is still a bloody high pick) in the draft where he went #1 to realise that taking those key forwards when you can definitely has a lot of merit.

Eagles won a flag with the big q as our ff.

Rookie list journeyman / honest trier.

Star Mids > star forwards

 

[NathanMX]

Eagles won a flag with the big q as our ff.

Rookie list journeyman / honest trier.

Star Mids > star forwards

So Dustin Martin > Nick Riewoldt and Josh Kennedy?