2014 rising star

[The_Flying_Egg]

I think it will likely go to one of the non-finalists, largely because they have the freedom to allow their kids to play see ball, get ball football which makes them look good offensively, even if defensively they can be completely unaccountable.

However, I think players getting it done in good teams means more than being gifted games in a struggling team. Taberner for Freo, Cunningham for Swans, McDonald for us, etc.

McDonald is a midfielder, but he doesn't have the freedom to just be a see ball get ball player like most of the other players in struggling teams are allowed to do.

Bonts was on fire against us, McDonald goes to him, shuts him out of the game and it turns into a route. He wont make any highlight reel for that, but the club has bigger fish to fry than worrying about letting a young kid off the leash to play attacking footy. McDonald as a junior was a very aggressive offensive midfielder but this season was about tempering that aggression with developing the defensive instincts early. Young players in good teams just don't have the freedom to cut loose, they are bombarded with complex game plans, defensive structures, etc.

It is why when young struggling teams are allowed to attack they look good, when it becomes a defensive game they don't look very good at all. If you can't defend, you don't win grand finals.

It's not like Bonti doesn't work defensively, he averages more tackles than McDonald. And while there are advantages playing in a lesser side it also means Bonti does get players on him like McDonald, who have the role of shutting him down. Other teams place attention on Bont already. It goes both ways

 

[ManOfClay]

It's not like Bonti doesn't work defensively, he averages more tackles than McDonald. And while there are advantages playing in a lesser side it also means Bonti does get players on him like McDonald, who have the role of shutting him down. Other teams place attention on Bont already. It goes both ways

It's just because North's dog in the fight is a defender that the argument comes out. If McDonald was an attacking player it would be about how good McDonald is to be a dangerous player in a finals side.

Or maybe we should play a midfielder/forward in defence just to show we aren't letting him off the leash. Lets throw Jake Stringer back there again too, can't have a young player playing his ideal position when he could be playing defence.

Bontempelli isn't a defensive player but he does the hard physical stuff. He's a skinny kid who laid 10 tackles against the physically toughest team in the league in Geelong.

 

[Zgope1]

I was at the north dogs game and watched bonts closely. His quieter second half really didn't have that much to do with this tag people are speaking of. He tired like kids do and north belted the crap out of us. If you saw how bonts was everywhere in the second quarter you could probably understand why he wasn't able to produce 4 quarters of that type of footy

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I feel like people are going out of their way to find excuses not to think that Bontempelli because of:
- The fact he was somewhat undeservedly backed into being a heavy favourite early on
- The uniqueness of him, if he were to win, he'd be the latest nominee and least games played in recent RS history were he to win
- He has a contender for GOTY as well
- Many of his impact on games are intangible

 

[a mayes ing]

I feel like people are going out of their way to find excuses not to think that Bontempelli because of:
- The fact he was somewhat undeservedly backed into being a heavy favourite early on
- The uniqueness of him, if he were to win, he'd be the latest nominee and least games played in recent RS history were he to win
- He has a contender for GOTY as well
- Many of his impact on games are intangible

It might also be the fact that people might be getting irratated about the fact that every Bulldog's supporter can't possibly think that it might be anyone else other than Bont. I understand he is from your club but don't expect everyone to agree that he is the world champion of rising stars.

 

[ManOfClay]

It might also be the fact that people might be getting irratated about the fact that every Bulldog's supporter can't possibly think that it might be anyone else other than Bont.

Find me more than 1 or two Bulldogs supporters who have said that. I've seen a Collingwood supporter say it, and a Carlton one. Maybe the odd Bulldogs supporter.

Lions supporters have been every bit as bad when it comes to Taylor or Aish

 

[a mayes ing]

Find me more than 1 or two Bulldogs supporters who have said that. I've seen a Collingwood supporter say it, and a Carlton one. Maybe the odd Bulldogs supporter.

Lions supporters have been every bit as bad when it comes to Taylor or Aish

Yeah, l am not going to go through the whole thread to find every Bulldogs supporter that disagrees with other supporters that thinks others should be RS over Bonts. I have stuff to do not just post in the RS thread like some...

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Find me more than 1 or two Bulldogs supporters who have said that. I've seen a Collingwood supporter say it, and a Carlton one. Maybe the odd Bulldogs supporter.

Lions supporters have been every bit as bad when it comes to Taylor or Aish

I have, but only because I'm stirring the pot a little
But in all seriousness, this year isn't one where there can be a wrong winner, due to the uniqueness of it. It's hard to compare any two players. Bontempelli has had more impactful games, but has played less games. Aish, McDonald and Taylor have all played all or thereabouts of the season and been consistent, but have played different positions and in McDonald's case, a different team. The uniqueness of each player (and the fact that the criteria for the voting is unclear) means that every player has justification on why they should win.

It is of my opinion, however, that kicking goals, getting the ball forward and standing up in big moments (like last quarters) are a more important factor and as the fact that Bontempelli has been a lot more significant in those areas compared to other players, he, in my view, should win the Rising Star.

 

[a mayes ing]

I have, but only because I'm stirring the pot a little
But in all seriousness, this year isn't one where there can be a wrong winner, due to the uniqueness of it. It's hard to compare any two players. Bontempelli has had more impactful games, but has played less games. Aish, McDonald and Taylor have all played all or thereabouts of the season and been consistent, but have played different positions and in McDonald's case, a different team. The uniqueness of each player (and the fact that the criteria for the voting is unclear) means that every player has justification on why they should win.

It is of my opinion, however, that kicking goals, getting the ball forward and standing up in big moments (like last quarters) are a more important factor and as the fact that Bontempelli has been a lot more significant in those areas compared to other players, he, in my view, should win the Rising Star.

The thing is we still don't know how the RS votes. What they are looking for. One of the commentators was asking one of the judges what consisted of it and he didn't answer, just mumbled nonsense. If we don't know how they judge points, for all we know the winner could go to anyone.

 

[Tas]

It's not like Bonti doesn't work defensively, he averages more tackles than McDonald. And while there are advantages playing in a lesser side it also means Bonti does get players on him like McDonald, who have the role of shutting him down. Other teams place attention on Bont already. It goes both ways

He should average more tackles and disposals, he is constantly around the ball at stoppages.

I didn't say he doesn't work defensively, Bonts just has the freedom to play a more aggressive game because there is no expectation on the dogs to win or make the finals or to become a contender now or soon. That is freedom of not having that huge burden put on you.

I mean the coach came out and praised him for a one quarter effort in a game their team got pants in their captain's 200th game, you know expectation for success in the present or near future is non-existent when that scenario happens.

 

[Syrah]

He should average more tackles and disposals, he is constantly around the ball at stoppages.

I didn't say he doesn't work defensively, Bonts just has the freedom to play a more aggressive game because there is no expectation on the dogs to win or make the finals or to become a contender now or soon. That is freedom of not having that huge burden put on you.

I mean the coach came out and praised him for a one quarter effort in a game their team got pants in their captain's 200th game, you know expectation for success in the present or near future is non-existent when that scenario happens.

This thread just gets worse and worse.

 

[SterlingArcher]

I feel like people are going out of their way to find excuses not to think that Bontempelli because of:
- The fact he was somewhat undeservedly backed into being a heavy favourite early on
- The uniqueness of him, if he were to win, he'd be the latest nominee and least games played in recent RS history were he to win
- He has a contender for GOTY as well
- Many of his impact on games are intangible

As opposed to:
-McDonald can't win because then Impey would be upset because he also plays defence

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

He should average more tackles and disposals, he is constantly around the ball at stoppages.

I didn't say he doesn't work defensively, Bonts just has the freedom to play a more aggressive game because there is no expectation on the dogs to win or make the finals or to become a contender now or soon. That is freedom of not having that huge burden put on you.

I mean the coach came out and praised him for a one quarter effort in a game their team got pants in their captain's 200th game, you know expectation for success in the present or near future is non-existent when that scenario happens.

I don't think Bonti has more freedom because his team isn't expected to win. When North lose no one is blaming McDonald, there is no extra burden on the rookie. You could argue that Bonti performing in a difficult role such as swapping to basically full forward is a pretty big burden on a skinny teenager

And yeah we lost that game, but a game like Bonti played didn't deserve praise?? U can't have an impressive performances in a loss? A coach can't praise a rookie who was best afield at half time??

 

[SizeMatters]

when is it awarded?

 

[Tas]

I don't think Bonti has more freedom because his team isn't expected to win. When North lose no one is blaming McDonald, there is no extra burden on the rookie. You could argue that Bonti performing in a difficult role such as swapping to basically full forward is a pretty big burden on a skinny teenager

And yeah we lost that game, but a game like Bonti played didn't deserve praise?? U can't have an impressive performances in a loss? A coach can't praise a rookie who was best afield at half time??

I think Bonts will become a very good player and I think his consistency will improve from quarter to quarter, but my point is just that for teams like the Dogs, Saint, GWS, Melbourne, Brisbane, etc don't have the same kind of pressure to perform. Half of the Brisbane team has been nominated and they have an average losing margin of 56 points, there is obvious zero pressure to perform or do the defensive acts which allow you to win games consistently.

I don't think Bonts has had the consistency this season, I think past winners were a lot more consistent. O'Meara was very strong in his first season. Heppell, Hannebery, Rich, Selwood... they all have very strong consistent seasons.

 

[Silvagnis]

Emma Quayle: Is this year's Rising Star crop the most even ever?

The most brilliant bits of Troy Menzel's season were as good as anyone's, and the same goes for St Kilda's Jack Billings.

 

[Igloo]

I think Bonts will become a very good player and I think his consistency will improve from quarter to quarter, but my point is just that for teams like the Dogs, Saint, GWS, Melbourne, Brisbane, etc don't have the same kind of pressure to perform. Half of the Brisbane team has been nominated and they have an average losing margin of 56 points, there is obvious zero pressure to perform or do the defensive acts which allow you to win games consistently.

What a ridiculous thing to suggest. Case in point, Jackson Macrae having a great season for a 2nd year player, regularly lauded in the media. Brendan McCartney comes out and suggests he was lucky to keep his spot in the team, as he hasn't been doing some things expected of everyone. That's pressure directly from the man in charge of the whole team.
Just because there isn't as much pressure coming from people outside the team to those into the team, doesn't mean there isn't pressure coming from anywhere else. There are certain things expected of you, no matter what team you play in.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Thank Christ we've only got several more hours of bickering here its finally voted.

Reckon it will be

1 Bonts
2 Taylor
3 Aish
4 Luke McDonald
5 Zack Merrett

Still don't think Taylor or anyone else have done enough to pip Bonts for the award ..

 

[Dan]

When you play well and have a big influence in your side winning games I think that stands out more than anything else. That's why I think Bontempelli will win it this year.

That's not to say he'll be the best player from his draft group in the near future. Taylor may take that mantle or Kelly.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Anyone know when the result is announced? Reckon it'll probably end up being Bontempelli, for no other reason than people who would know better than I do believe it will go that way. I haven't seen nearly enough of him to really comment as to whether or not he's been better than either Taylor or Aish, but I trust others who have.

 

[ManOfClay]

teams like the Dogs, Saint, GWS, Melbourne, Brisbane, etc don't have the same kind of pressure to perform.

Yeah we only play a kick to kick most weeks. No pressure on us at all.

 

[Damon_3388]

They're showing the award ceremony on Fox Footy at 9pm AEST tonight.

 

[_M_16_]

With the Rising Star Winner to be announced in a few hours, and a lot of bickering between fans biased towards their own players, about who should win the award and such. I've decided to put together a list of 10 statistics featuring the eight likely finalists/favorites for the award, so we can all compare each and every contestant across each category.

Disposals Per Game

1. Aish - 17.6
2. Kelly - 17.3
3. McDonald - 17.2
4. Kolodjashnij - 17.1
5. Taylor - 16.9
6. Langdon - 16.6
7. Bontempelli - 15.9
8. Merret - 15.0

Contested Possessions Per Game

1. Bontempelli - 7.5
2. Aish - 6.24
3. Langdon - 5.37
4. McDonald - 5.25
5. Merret - 5.16
6. Taylor - 4.95
7. Kelly - 4.94
8. Kolodjashnij - 4.33

Inside 50's Per Game

1. Bontempelli - 4.19
2. Merret - 2.79
3. Taylor - 2.32
4. Aish - 2.28
5. Kelly - 2.22
6. McDonald - 2.0
7. Langdon - 1.79
8. Kolodjashnij - 1.67

Tackles Per Game

1. Merret - 3.89
2. Aish - 3.67
3. Bontempelli - 3.44
4. Kelly - 3.22
5. McDonald - 2.70
6. Langdon - 2.47
7. Taylor - 2.00
8. Kolodjashnij - 1.89

Marks Per Game

1. Langdon - 5.6
2. Kolodjashnij - 4.9
3. Aish - 4.5
4. Taylor - 4.0
5. McDonald - 3.7
6. Merret - 3.3
7. Kelly - 3.1
8. Bontempelli - 2.9

Contested Marks Per Game

1. Bontempelli - 0.8
2. Langdon - 0.6
3. Aish - 0.3
3. McDonald - 0.3
4. Kelly - 0.2
4. Merret - 0.2
4. Kolodjashnij - 0.2
5. Taylor - 0.1


Goals Per Game

1. Bontempelli - 0.9
2. Kelly - 0.7
3. Merret - 0.6
3. Taylor - 0.6
4. Aish - 0.3
4. Kolodjashnij - 0.3
5. Langdon - 0
5. McDonald - 0


Goal Assists Per Game
1. Kelly - 0.5
1. Merret - 0.5
2. Bontempelli - 0.3
2. Aish - 0.3
2. Taylor - 0.3
2. McDonald - 0.3
3. Langdon - 0
3. Kolodjashnij


Clearances Per Game

1. Bontempelli - 2.2
2. Aish - 2.0
3. Kelly - 1.3
4. McDonald - 1.0
5. Taylor - 0.9
6. Kolodjashnij - 0.8
7. Merret - 0.5
8. Langon - 0.4

Disposal Efficiency

1. Langdon - 76.5%
2. McDonald - 75.7%
3. Kolodjashnij - 74.7%
4. Merret - 72.7%
5. Aish - 71.6%
6. Taylor - 69.8%
7. Kelly - 69.2%
8. Bontempelli - 67.3%

So there you have it, stats don't lie, and I was rather surprised by some of them as well, which shows how one way some players are, and how much fans of their own team pump up certain aspects even more. For a little extra I decided to make a points tally, but using each players position in each category, with first place equaling eight points, second place seven points etc


Points Ranking

1. Aish - 62 points
2. Bontempelli - 57 points
3. McDonald - 52 points
4. Merret - 49 points
5. Kelly - 48 points
6. Taylor - 44 points
7. Langdon - 38 points
8. Kolodjashnij - 34 points

Some further notes....

• Bontempelli was the best ranked of the eight in 5 of the 10 categories, and top 3 in 7 of them
• Not surprisingly, the best ball users and markers were defenders, which backs up the theory that defenders get it easier due to less pressure and chipping it around. Those in the middle and who play more forward had the lowest efficiency
• Aish was the most consistent across all 10 of the categories, though he got the points win due to the gap in disposals per game and marks between himself and Bontempelli, which in statistical terms acts as an "outlier", and some placings in some categories were decided by the slightest margin possible
• Taylor is one of the favorites and talked up highly by fans of his own team. Though claims by many that he is the leading possession getter of all the contestants doesn't ring true, as he sits fifth on the list. Also as much as he loves to gets some ball and create some run, he hates being involved the hard stuff, finishing low in clearances, tackles and contested possesions, as well as contested marks. Likewise for Kolodjashnij. Do not see the talk of him being a favorite comes from, considering it seems people are only going by how many games he has played and how many disposals he got, two of the most flawed things to measure a rising star by. Looking deeper into statistics, including the important ones, puts him outside the top 3-4 in my opinion. In fact he even finished way down outside the top 30 in some categories of all the new players this season
• Langdon finished in the bottom three in 6 of the 10 categories
• Merret played up to 10 minutes, and even 15 minutes less minutes of game time per game than most of the other nominees, yet featured highly in a lot of categories. If he averaged in the 80's, he could easily be the leader and favorite
• Langdon is the most efficient with the ball, despite finishing low in many things. He also seems to dislike scoring, scoring no goals or setting up any himself

So there you have it, a full in depth run down of this years hottest rising star nominees. Remember people, statistics don't lie. We can all bitch and moan about this and that, but the reality is the reality.

As for my tip for the Rising Star and why....

Marcus Bontempelli, he may not have won the ball as much as some of the others. But it is not about how many disposals you get, but how you get them and what you do with them. The statistics place him in the lead or up high in goals per game, goal assists per game, clearances, tackles and inside 50's. As well as a big gap with contested possessions per game. All of the key/important statistics. Doing all those, whilst being possibly the youngest player of all of the nominees, and also playing the second least minutes per game out of them all. Could you imagine if he played more than 80 minutes per game? His statistics would be in line to blow everyone else away. Not only that, but his has been involved in many plays that create an impact in most games. He has been in the best players a few times, and single handedly won the Bulldogs both the Collingwood and Melbourne games. How often do any rookies come along who can do that, yet along have any of the other nominees won their team a game with a big last quarter, with goals and key plays? His poise, game sense and maturity is well ahead of his years. That is why he is my tip and most deserving choice of winning the Rising Star Award.

Aish would also be just as deserving if he won the award. It will be a nail biter of a finish between these two players in my opinion

 

[Big Sauce 21]

vossy reckons bontempelli

fox sports journo reckons Taylor closely followed by KK

 

[ManOfClay]

Excellent post _M_16_

well done on a thorough analysis