List Mgmt. 2014: The List

[I AM CARLTON]

Rebuilding doesn't mean getting rid of all players at the club over X years of age.

Every club - be it one rebuilding or challenging for a flag - needs a mix of players across all age groups.

Going in too young is very dangerous and can have serious negative effects on the club - look at what has happened at Melbourne as a prime example of that. They got rid of the vast majority of their experienced players - how successful has that been for them?

Look at the Western Bulldogs as an example. They've been rebuilding for a few years now with a strong emphasis on bringing the kids through....but the likes of Murphy, Morris, Giansiracusa, Boyd etc. all still have a significant role to play.

Yeah I hear ya, I actually don't think we are in a rebuild.

But if the club thinks we are recruiting Daisy wouldn't make sense.

Only 1 or 2 pieces of the puzzle are missing, 1 of which I think is a key forward which I believe we should try to trade for. Kruezer/Warnock & Yarran plus a pick. Would that get anyone interested?

 

[LordLucifer]

I think a traditional trade for a KPF would be impossible to pull off...we don't have a lot of cattle to trade, least not that will yield the player we need.

Sorry, I can't agree with you on that one.

We have a swag of players we should trade, the problem is, it's highly doubtful that the other clubs would be interested in any of them.

 

[chunkylover53]

Sorry, I can't agree with you on that one.

We have a swag of players we should trade, the problem is, it's highly doubtful that the other clubs would be interested in any of them.

Don't underestimate Mick. He will make the tough calls if necessary.

I'm preparing to lose a club favourite this year, just not sure who. Kreuzer/Gibbs*/Walker/Yarran/Garlett/Robinson/Warnock will all be on the table in my opinion.

(I am aware we re-signed Walker recently but you can't sell him if you don't own him).

 

[Kramer1]

Sorry, I can't agree with you on that one.

We have a swag of players we should trade, the problem is, it's highly doubtful that the other clubs would be interested in any of them.

???

That's exactly what I said...we don't have the players to trade that would yield us a great deal in return.

 

[LordLucifer]

???

That's exactly what I said...we don't have the players to trade that would yield us a great deal in return.

Yes, I saw that reasoning and I agree with you. The point I'm making is that I believe there are a number of them that other clubs wouldn't even want regardless.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

We should be targeting Sam Reid, absoloute gun when he's on. Won't get a game with Bud and Tippett in the side so would come cheap. IIRC he is on a big deal so that may up the asking price but he's ready made, well worth a risk. Collingwood would probably be front runners with the Ben in the side, really hope Mick would look into this.

 

[gbatman]

We should be targeting GC and GWS players and any Victorians who are interstate really. Would be after some of the big fellas at GWS for sure. Mostly I hope we get those extra early draft picks this year.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Have we ever had 2 first round picks? Not since the 07 draft IIRC, and we traded it. Before that they would've been end of first round priority's? Would be nice to have 2 or 3 top 20 picks to look forward to.

 

[smashbox gill]

We should be targeting Sam Reid, absoloute gun when he's on. Won't get a game with Bud and Tippett in the side so would come cheap. IIRC he is on a big deal so that may up the asking price but he's ready made, well worth a risk. Collingwood would probably be front runners with the Ben in the side, really hope Mick would look into this.

Hes contracted till 2017 im pretty sure. Signed a 5 year contract a year ago. They wont let him leave

 

[bmaurizio]

Definitely target both GS & GWS as they have an abundance of quality KPP. Any Of the Vic lads show slightest interest to return we should pounce, I'm certain the club will be aggressive , it may take a couple of trade periods but we'll get it right during Mick Malthouse's tenure.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

My personal feel here is that when Ratten was sacked and Mick was brought in the club thought we had the list to have a crack at a flag but lacked the finish(enter Mick). Now imo the club is not so sure if we do have the cattle.It has and will be frustrating as a Blues supporter but we must keep our faith in Mick.

It may take time but we must be patient if we want to contend any time soon.

Go Blues.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

My personal feel here is that when Ratten was sacked and Mick was brought in the club thought we had the list to have a crack at a flag but lacked the finish(enter Mick). Now imo the club is not so sure if we do have the cattle.It has and will be frustrating as a Blues supporter but we must keep our faith in Mick.

It may take time but we must be patient if we want to contend any time soon.

Go Blues.

Are we prepared to pay Mick 1mil plus whilst we go through a rebuild of a rebuild, when we can get a young fresh coach in who would do the job for half as much..

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Are we prepared to pay Mick 1mil plus whilst we go through a rebuild of a rebuild, when we can get a young fresh coach in who would do the job for half as much..

I cannot put a time frame on how long it may take but Mick is an excellent manager of men and IMO should be given the latitude to do what he deems is necessary.Good coaches cost big bucks it's simple just like in business.

 

[zeeCFC]

My personal feel here is that when Ratten was sacked and Mick was brought in the club thought we had the list to have a crack at a flag but lacked the finish(enter Mick). Now imo the club is not so sure if we do have the cattle.It has and will be frustrating as a Blues supporter but we must keep our faith in Mick.

It may take time but we must be patient if we want to contend any time soon.

Go Blues.

On paper it looks okay to me...let's compare the grand finalists with our side:

FB: Suckling, Lake, Stratton
HB: Birchall, Gibson, Mitchell
C: Hill, Hodge, Smith
HF: Rioli, Gunston, Breust
FF: Hale, Roughead, Puopolo
R: McEvoy, Sewell, Lewis
IC: Burgoyne, Whitecross, Simpkin, Shiels

FB: Ibbotson, Dawson, Johnson
HB: Duffield, McPharlin, Sutcliffe
C: Hill, Fyfe, Pearce
HF: Walters, Mayne, de Boer
FF: Clarke, Pavlich, Ballantyne
R: Sandilands, Mundy, Crowley
IC: Sheridan, Mzungu, Suban, Neale

FB: Tuohy, Jamison, White
HB: Walker, Watson, Yarran
C: Simpson, Gibbs, Thomas
HF: Menzel, Henderson, Everitt
FF: Kreuzer, Waite, Garlett
R: Warnock, Murphy, Judd
IC: Carrazzo, McLean, Curnow, up for grabs.

Obviously our issue is the uncertainty with KPDs and until Watson, McInnes, White, Everitt or Bootsma make a name for themselves we'll be relying too much on Jamison who will have his game suffer as a result. Freo's back line is a thing of beauty with McPharlin and Johnson patrolling while the others play their role adequately. Hawks' back line is filled with talent - Birchall, Lake, Gibson and Mitchell are elite which allows for Suckling to do his thing and Stratton plays his role well. Our backline is too suspect when Walker is forced to play deep defense or when we have White/McInnes playing too tall if our CHB/FB is struggling. Otherwise when Tuohy, Yarran, Walker are allowed to attack if the KPDs do their job we look better than anyone else coming out of defense.

The midfield can be unmatched with it's attacking prowess but the defensive pressure has always been an issue for us. Fremantle somehow manages to cover the run of Hill and Pearce with team defense and the Hawks are coached well to allow Hill and Smith to do their thing. Problem with Carlton is everyone wants to join the party and Judd, Murphy and Thomas in my opinion need to be let loose while Gibbs, Simpson, McLean, Carrazzo and Curnow are our defensive mids. Too often Gibbs, McLean and Carrazzo will get ahead of their opponents. Not to mention the usual suspects in Robbo and Bell.

The forward line is a work in progress. Waite is one of the comp's best KPFs in my opinion and Henderson is an A grader in any tall position. Walker or Everitt need to make sure they have an impact and aren't playing swingman roles for the fun of it, making contests etc isn't enough, hit the scoreboard. Garlett and Menz will get their couple of goals a game if allowed. Kreuzer needs to be fit and tire his opponent because I don't have that much confidence in his forward play when he's closely checked. Works best when he has that tiny bit of seperation coming into packs not when it's plonked on his head.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Also, Robbo needs to be delisted. Bell and/or Cripps is a huge upgrade on him. He just butchers it

 

[zeeCFC]

Also, Robbo needs to be delisted. Bell and/or Cripps is a huge upgrade on him. He just butchers it

he has his issues and will admit to cursing him last week at Etihad but he is one of the few younger mids we have that can accumulate the ball and change a game. Until Bell, Cripps, Holman, Graham make their way in consistently we'll have to accept the howlers for the good.

 

[gbatman]

Rebuilding doesn't mean getting rid of all players at the club over X years of age.

Every club - be it one rebuilding or challenging for a flag - needs a mix of players across all age groups.

Going in too young is very dangerous and can have serious negative effects on the club - look at what has happened at Melbourne as a prime example of that. They got rid of the vast majority of their experienced players - how successful has that been for them?

Look at the Western Bulldogs as an example. They've been rebuilding for a few years now with a strong emphasis on bringing the kids through....but the likes of Murphy, Morris, Giansiracusa, Boyd etc. all still have a significant role to play.

Precisely, guys like Judd and Carrazzo would likely be gone as they have struggled for fitness of recent times but it's more about getting rid of guys who are most likely not going to get to the required level to find a place in a top side, guys like Robinson, Bell and Mclean perhaps and replacing them with guys like Menzel, Cripps, Lucas, Graham and it also means guys like Giles develop in the seniors rather than the VFL. It means trading players who aren't overly good but are in our best 22 (like the ones i'v just mentioned) and getting extra draft picks and it means playing first and second year players. It might also mean giving the boot to those chasing big salaries and perhaps opening things up to chasing a big named youngster/middle aged player.

 

[gbatman]

Also, Robbo needs to be delisted. Bell and/or Cripps is a huge upgrade on him. He just butchers it

Robbo is miles ahead of Bell. Bell has no forward game, poor mark, no intensity, poor agility, poor hands. Robinson generally gets more of the ball, can take a mark and can kick a goal. They are both average and would be worth shopping around. I've actually seen Robinson stand up and influence games, still yet to see Bell do this.

 

[smashbox gill]

Robbo wont get dropped, he brings way to much to the team. Yes he wastes his disposal 70% of the time, but you wont find a player who is a bigger team player. Chases harder than anyone in our team, is the most courageous (simpson aswel), loves the hardstuff, shows aggression in a team full of introverts. He brings far to much to our team.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Robbo wont get dropped, he brings way to much to the team. Yes he wastes his disposal 70% of the time, but you wont find a player who is a bigger team player. Chases harder than anyone in our team, is the most courageous (simpson aswel), loves the hardstuff, shows aggression in a team full of introverts. He brings far to much to our team.

Armfield is the ultimate team player as well. Chases all day. Hard as nails. Skills have improved over the last few years. Was a lock last year. Surprised he didn't play round 1.Anyone know what is going on with Army?

 

[etsal1]

Armfield is the ultimate team player as well. Chases all day. Hard as nails. Skills have improved over the last few years. Was a lock last year. Surprised he didn't play round 1.Anyone know what is going on with Army?

Injured. VFL next week according to Macca

 

[SBYM]

Our recruiting strategy relies on the mercy of SOS at the next trade week. What if we can't shake free a Tomlinson or a Patton?

I should have grabbed him and had a word in his ear…he and Jo were on my flight to NY…maybe I'll bump into him.

 

[SBYM]

In any case, KPPs over the offseason are non-negotiable.

We have gone down a path for a while now...it hasn't borne fruit, time to change tack...and if that means giving up some quality smaller players, so be it.

 

[SeVi]

When we talk the list, it is important to recognise the different styles of building/improving the list quality.

Just look at two different contrasting styles in Geelong and Hawthorn. Geelong has done their homework going into the draft and nailed their picks, particularly when their top end best 22 team itself was winning flags. Hawthorn has be renowned for hand picking players post 2008 to improve and obviously everybody is talking Lake but we all know he was just one of many who have flourished at the Hawks.

If we aren't good enough, which I think is yet to be deterimined (and probably the season 2014 project in all fairness). Given how much effort went into our rebuild post 2003/4 I think we are better off trying to trade in players to play a specific role for our side ala Hawthorn. Historically we just haven't been strong enough in the draft to build serious quality. Under Rogers I think we will improve but compared to the Collingwoods, Geelongs and co we are so far behind the 8 ball its not funny. The success is always measured on the second picks and back. Simpson was a steal at 40 something, Robbo was nice. We've done ok on the rookie list with Touhy and Bell, and also Ellard; but beyond that we've been pretty terrible.

Securing Docherty, Everitt and Thomas was a good start. Also I like the decision to take Wood as a rookie after overloading Hampson. I like the suggestion to lure Reid from the Swans. He's on a longish contract but Buddy moving to the Swans will create more ripples. He's gettable. Collingwood won't take him, they are already too top heavy and couldn't guarantee him a game.

But its only week2 of a long season. Sometimes it only take 1 or 2 players to create a spark and transform a side.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Robbo is miles ahead of Bell. Bell has no forward game, poor mark, no intensity, poor agility, poor hands. Robinson generally gets more of the ball, can take a mark and can kick a goal. They are both average and would be worth shopping around. I've actually seen Robinson stand up and influence games, still yet to see Bell do this.

I disagree, Bell has some great hands and can definantly take a mark and kick a goal. Bell has the bigger body but also the bigger tank which is great around stoppages and he'll generally get to more around the ground. Robbo is great as a spark and he has some good leadership qualities but until he learns to dish it to a better user or actually hit a target instead of bombing it as high as he can then he's not in my best 22.

Let's hope he redeems himself tomorrow night because he was probably our worst against Port.