2015 Non-Crows AFL Discussion - Pt. 1

[NikkiNoo]

I can't believe this is the first of its kind in the world nikkinoo? Given the drug history of other countries in the olympics, are other teams in other countries just not tested as much as we are in Australia?

They have never gotten a sporting team with on-site and systematic doping like this before. Lots of strong suspicions, but nothing concrete that was followed through on is my understanding. Cases without positive tests can be difficult without a lot of the circumstantial evidence. The ACC started it all off here and handed over their intel to ASADA, who then had to go out and collect it all again, but the ACC told them where to look to build the case. Most other doping violations there would have been suspicions but no intel from other agencies ala police to 'assist'. The only other one that comes close is the Lance Armstrong/US Postal case.

 

[Mike Smyth]

Nikki, if you take out our emotion and interest in the game, what would you think is a suitable suspension period given the severity of the crime?

 

[Deaneus!]

Death penalty

 

[cmndstab]

I'll be really surprised if the Essendon players just end up with a slap on the wrist.

Not that I'd be surprised at the AFL offering that, mind you, but can't WADA come down on them like a tonne of bricks if they're not satisfied with the outcome?

 

[Mike Smyth]

I'll be really surprised if the Essendon players just end up with a slap on the wrist.

Not that I'd be surprised at the AFL offering that, mind you, but can't WADA come down on them like a tonne of bricks if they're not satisfied with the outcome?

What would you consider a suitable suspension term? Personally, I think anything short of 2 years is a slap on the wrist.

 

[happy_knackers]

NikkiNoo, what's your opinion regarding whether Watson and Fletcher should've been allowed to play in the IRS? I think it was a poor and weak decision by the AFL again (ie Handing back draft picks) and they've made a rod for their own backs in this case. Im telling you now they wont miss more than 2 games and Hird will keep his job. If this was the crows they would of folded us by now or ran us out of the comp. As Andy D said though, Essendon cooperated while we didn't so fair's fair...

Given that the space time continuum would be irrecoverably damaged if any hint at which players are (or aren't) actually under the spotlight was leaked, wasn't the story early on that Fletcher was not involved in the program? Is his name just being thrown in to back up Jobe playing (so brave) or has the idea that Fletcher is in the clear been donged on the head?

 

[Niximus]

What would you consider a suitable suspension term? Personally, I think anything short of 2 years is a slap on the wrist.

I think that < 2 years would be light, but I could be satisfied with 12 months. Anything < 12 months would be a disgrace.

 

[Deaneus!]

They have never gotten a sporting team with on-site and systematic doping like this before. Lots of strong suspicions, but nothing concrete that was followed through on is my understanding. Cases without positive tests can be difficult without a lot of the circumstantial evidence. The ACC started it all off here and handed over their intel to ASADA, who then had to go out and collect it all again, but the ACC told them where to look to build the case. Most other doping violations there would have been suspicions but no intel from other agencies ala police to 'assist'. The only other one that comes close is the Lance Armstrong/US Postal case.

Australia, punching above its weight in sport again

 

[Mike Smyth]

We've pointed our sanctimonious finger at other countries for along time now but now the spotlight is on us.

 

[Mike Smyth]

Good on Eddie for speaking out against the academies.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Australia, punching above its weight in sport again

only because the ACC were looking into organised crimes and peptides importation and that is how they discovered one Stephen Dank - self promoted peptide guru.

 

[NikkiNoo]

I'll be really surprised if the Essendon players just end up with a slap on the wrist.

Not that I'd be surprised at the AFL offering that, mind you, but can't WADA come down on them like a tonne of bricks if they're not satisfied with the outcome?

Yup, WADA can appeal to CAS. I think the AFL were very aware of the issues WADA had with the NRL penalties, so they handed over the prosecuting of the case to ASADA before their Tribunal, which is the first time they have done that. Normally it is ASADA giving the evidence to the sporting body and the sporting body then speaks to that evidence before their own tribunal.

 

[Mike Smyth]

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread but interesting article the day which said that according to champion data Phil Walsh has inherited one of the AFLs most talented playing lists. Champion Data says Walsh has more top end talent at his disposal than any club apart from Hawthorn. Excluding Crouch and Tex CD says we have 6 players who can be considered elite for their positions - Hawthorn has 8.

 

[FR0GGY]

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread but interesting article the day which said that according to champion data Phil Walsh has inherited one of the AFLs most talented playing lists. Champion Data says Walsh has more top end talent at his disposal than any club apart from Hawthorn. Excluding Crouch and Tex CD says we have 6 players who can be considered elite for their positions - Hawthorn has 8.

I'm guessing they are, Eddie, sauce, Talia, danger, sloane and smith? Not a bad little crop, I don't think we have problems with our top end players it's the 8 or 9th to 40th player on our list that needs improving. Draft sanctions certainly haven't helped this.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

So its reasonable to assume penalties may be 6 months backdated to November, which will effectively result in no penalty?

IMO, it will be 1 year bans backdated to November... & they have effectively been allowed to train for nothing - but at least they will be available then for next year's pre-season.

 

[footy4ever]

What would you consider a suitable suspension term? Personally, I think anything short of 2 years is a slap on the wrist.

Any penalties dished out need to be proportionate to Saad's.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Disgraceful, unprofessional and an embarrassment.

That penalty suits the situation which has been farcical since Day 1.

So you know the penalty???

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

If, as expected, Essendon players get zero games will it impact on the game or will there be 5 minutes of outrage and then business as usual?

If as you expect.

IMO, there is buggar all chance Essendon players will get off with no games.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread but interesting article the day which said that according to champion data Phil Walsh has inherited one of the AFLs most talented playing lists. Champion Data says Walsh has more top end talent at his disposal than any club apart from Hawthorn. Excluding Crouch and Tex CD says we have 6 players who can be considered elite for their positions - Hawthorn has 8.

When we are top after round 14 - this would be a very good thread to make on its own.

If we are not, I think iyts best to keep quiet about it as it will open a can of bay 13 idiot worms.

 

[NikkiNoo]

Any penalties dished out need to be proportionate to Saad's.

You can't compare to Saad's because his was a positive game day test. Apples and oranges.

 

[footy4ever]

If as you expect.

IMO, there is buggar all chance Essendon players will get off with no games.

I have to see it MS's way. It will be typical of the AFL to make sure Essendon players are all conveniently available for round one. They are already training as a club - which is already a bend over by the AFL. I hope you are more than 100% right though.

 

[happy_knackers]

When we are top after round 14 - this would be a very good thread to make on its own.

If we are not, I think iyts best to keep quiet about it as it will open a can of bay 13 idiot worms.

good thing it is buried in the 'non-crows' discussion thread then. cunning!

 

[Mike Smyth]

I'm guessing they are, Eddie, sauce, Talia, danger, sloane and smith? Not a bad little crop, I don't think we have problems with our top end players it's the 8 or 9th to 40th player on our list that needs improving. Draft sanctions certainly haven't helped this.

Yeah. I agree. That's why last years drsfts/fa and the next 2 years drafts/fa are so crucial for us. We need to go really hard if we really wont to break the draught. The foundation is there.

 

[Mike Smyth]

good thing it is buried in the 'non-crows' discussion thread then. cunning!

 

[footy4ever]

You can't compare to Saad's because his was a positive game day test. Apples and oranges.

Yes of course, but there are similarities. Did Saad know there was a banned substance in his drink? If ASADA say they can 'convict' on circumstantial evidence, a conviction surely is a conviction and whether a player tested positive or not should not effect the penalty…should it?