2015 Non-Crows AFL Discussion - Pt. 1

[GROTTO]

I personally think Port should be compensated for losing Monfries. They recruited him before this happened and this is an extreme case. But it wont happen, just like we were not compensated for losing Bailey's services due to his ban after coaching Melbourne.

But not Ryder, that was buyer beware.

Well whats worse is that with Bailey, it was obvious he was made the scape goat, others should have been punished instead to be honest.

 

[Geoffa32]

Well whats worse is that with Bailey, it was obvious he was made the scape goat, others should have been punished instead to be honest.

Not instead of, but as well. Yes he was a scapegoat, but was culpable as well.

He did coach them the way the club wanted and delivered on what they wanted. High draft picks. But it was still wrong.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Are the academies more about making sure the Qld and NSW afl teams remain competitive or about making sure nsw and Qld kids aren't lost to other codes. If its the later, than I don't see a problem with the other 14 clubs also being able to recruit nsw and Qld kids.

Just how many premierships are the administrators of this competition going to gift to Sydney, Brisbane etc

I'd love to see Academies in all states.

Horde the talent.

Other sports are starting to fight back.

 

[Geoffa32]

I'd love to see Academies in all states.

Horde the talent.

Other sports are starting to fight back.

T20 cricket is going to make an impact on future talent. Now that there are more than the contracted Test players making some real coin playing cricket it is a genuine carrot for the 15/16 year old kid who has to pick between cricket or footy.

 

[DD#23]

I'd love to see Academies in all states.

Horde the talent.

Other sports are starting to fight back.

absolutely, I think they should reintroduce the zones.

each club gets first dibs bidding on a player from their zone if they choose to, simple. I don't see the harm in that, keeping talent in their home state is just as romantic as a son playing for his father's old club.

 

[Geoffa32]

absolutely, I think they should reintroduce the zones.

each club gets first dibs bidding on a player from their zone if they choose to, simple. I don't see the harm in that, keeping talent in their home state is just as romantic as a son playing for his father's old club.

Under such a system we miss out on Talia, Lever, Crouch brothers............

 

[Deaneus!]

Under such a system we miss out on Talia, Lever, Crouch brothers............

Dangerfield, Sloane...

but we keep Gibbs.

 

[mattymac]

Good on Eddie for speaking out against the academies.

would love an academy! oh how the other half live

 

[Mattrox]

So how exactly did the ACC get involved?

Bikies need to launder money. They often do this through gambling. "Look it's all legal winnings, I have reciepts". But if they win large bets more often they don't lose to much in the "exchange rate".

If they can get inside info into team positions..... or tell a player to ensure X player gets the ball in the forward line in the 3rd quarter ..... they can influence outcomes of micro bets. They buddy up with players..... we have seen this at 9thmond. They get them to be "mates" or get them to do drugs at a party or set up a honeypot trap etc then they can blackmail said player. The ACC focus was drugs/bikies/gambling.


As far as I can join the dots they found out Charter supplied bikers peptides so their enforcers could bulk up. Charter led them to Essendon.... Essendon wasn't undertaking criminal activity so they handballed info to ASADA.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Under such a system we miss out on Talia, Lever, Crouch brothers............

You'd maybe have some sort of bidding system

 

[NikkiNoo]

Bikies need to launder money. They often do this through gambling. "Look it's all legal winnings, I have reciepts". But if they win large bets more often they don't lose to much in the "exchange rate".

If they can get inside info into team positions..... or tell a player to ensure X player gets the ball in the forward line in the 3rd quarter ..... they can influence outcomes of micro bets. They buddy up with players..... we have seen this at 9thmond. They get them to be "mates" or get them to do drugs at a party or set up a honeypot trap etc then they can blackmail said player. The ACC focus was drugs/bikies/gambling.


As far as I can join the dots they found out Charter supplied bikers peptides so their enforcers could bulk up. Charter led them to Essendon.... Essendon wasn't undertaking criminal activity so they handballed info to ASADA.

It was Dank supplying certain drugs as well to bikies that put him on the radar. He also was involved in importing peptides into the country and that led the ACC to Cronulla as well as Essendon, as Dank is the link there too.

 

[Doombs]

Channel 7 Melbourne reporting that Leigh Adams from North may have done an ACL.

 

[GROTTO]

Channel 7 Melbourne reporting that Leigh Adams from North may have done an ACL.

North supporters rather relaxed about it, appears to have hyper-extended the knee joint but not snapped the ACL.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Channel 7 Melbourne reporting that Leigh Adams from North may have done an ACL.

Is Judd a suspect?

 

[FR0GGY]

Is Judd a suspect?

The chicken leg tackle?

 

[cmndstab]

Under such a system we miss out on Talia, Lever, Crouch brothers............

Sure, but we gain access to the best SA player from each of those drafts.

 

[Deaneus!]

North supporters rather relaxed about it, appears to have hyper-extended the knee joint but not snapped the ACL.

Ouch. Did exactly the same before Xmas, was at Sportsmed today getting the good oil - no indoor cricket til April for me, bone bruising at the top of the tibia + slight tear. He's be limping all over the place and unable to run, poor bastard.

 

[Tex200]

Had a shocking dream last night. Port v Norf Grand Final this year. Norf have a shot after the siren to win but they miss.

I'm still laying in bed curled up in a ball

 

[GROTTO]

Had a shocking dream last night. Port v Norf Grand Final this year. Norf have a shot after the siren to win but they miss.

I'm still laying in bed curled up in a ball

Dont come on here and lie you had a dream champ!

Thats a nightmare.

 

[Carmo]

Not instead of, but as well. Yes he was a scapegoat, but was culpable as well.

He did coach them the way the club wanted and delivered on what they wanted. High draft picks. But it was still wrong.

Not having a go at you with this Geoffa - just needed your quote to provide context to my post

Well what about other coaches that obviously tanked, where was their penalty? Malthouse has done it. Sheedy has done it. Hawthorn did it and were all in on it from Dunstall, to president, to coach, where is their penalty? How did melb come to be in trouble for it when others have obviously done it.

I also say this though - if a system is known and transparent and you use that to your advantage, props to you for it.

Getting to my point, my gripe is that the AFL under Demetriou has been a joke. He was a make it up as you go cowboy. I cant speak scathingly enough about what he's done. The majority reason the game went well under his tenure was left over legacy from Wayne Jackson's work. Now Gill will probably experience a bit of a dent in performance thanks to Vlad that will take time to undo. Under Jackson, the system would have been fixed up and no one penalised as it was probably the AFL's fault that they made the draft system attractive like that. Under him the AFL would have rectified it and copped it on the chin that they made a mistake. Either that, or, they would have properly chased down all the clubs that "rorted" the system, not just one exemplar.

Vlad's reign has been a testament in how not to do things.

 

[Geoffa32]

Not having a go at you with this Geoffa - just needed your quote to provide context to my post

Well what about other coaches that obviously tanked, where was their penalty? Malthouse has done it. Sheedy has done it. Hawthorn did it and were all in on it from Dunstall, to president, to coach, where is their penalty? How did melb come to be in trouble for it when others have obviously done it.

I also say this though - if a system is known and transparent and you use that to your advantage, props to you for it.

Getting to my point, my gripe is that the AFL under Demetriou has been a joke. He was a make it up as you go cowboy. I cant speak scathingly enough about what he's done. The majority reason the game went well under his tenure was left over legacy from Wayne Jackson's work. Now Gill will probably experience a bit of a dent in performance thanks to Vlad that will take time to undo. Under Jackson, the system would have been fixed up and no one penalised as it was probably the AFL's fault that they made the draft system attractive like that. Under him the AFL would have rectified it and copped it on the chin that they made a mistake. Either that, or, they would have properly chased down all the clubs that "rorted" the system, not just one exemplar.

Vlad's reign has been a testament in how not to do things.

The standing down of Vlad handing over to Gill has been interesting.

I bet Vlad thought that the penalties handed to Essendon, in missing Finals and a fine were enough to sweep this saga under the rug.


Agree with all you say here. Plenty of clubs tanked and yet only one coach has been penalised for it. I wonder if Bailey's link to us and Vlad's hatred of our club (We didnt co-operate in Tipetgate, yet Essendon have according to Vlad) meant penalising Bailey was also penalising us, and Vlad enjoyed that. Bear in mind that Melbourne were found not have tanked, just Dean Bailey.

 

[GROTTO]

Bear in mind that Melbourne were found not have tanked, just Dean Bailey.

Absolutely a disgraceful decision, it was the MFC that should have been punished either that or both, but not just Bailey. He was taking orders from above and was honest about what had happened.

 

[Geoffa32]

Absolutely a disgraceful decision, it was the MFC that should have been punished either that or both, but not just Bailey. He was taking orders from above and was honest about what had happened.

Why was our club punished and not just Trigg and Harper, if we were to follow similar logic.

If anything there is less involvement from the overall club in negotiatiing the "cheat" clauses in the contracts, compared to organising a team of 22 players to lose a few games.



Just thinking about the most public cases of blatant tanking in the last few years and the players recruited due to it. None of Scully, Trengove nor Kreuser (Kreuser Cup) have had stellar careers. Karma?

 

[Carmo]

The standing down of Vlad handing over to Gill has been interesting.

I bet Vlad thought that the penalties handed to Essendon, in missing Finals and a fine were enough to sweep this saga under the rug.


Agree with all you say here. Plenty of clubs tanked and yet only one coach has been penalised for it. I wonder if Bailey's link to us and Vlad's hatred of our club (We didnt co-operate in Tipetgate, yet Essendon have according to Vlad) meant penalising Bailey was also penalising us, and Vlad enjoyed that. Bear in mind that Melbourne were found not have tanked, just Dean Bailey.

My view is that Triggy in particular was still pretty green for a CEO and continued for the most part with the professional and play by the rules at all costs policy that was the best choice under Jackson. Most others, whether by good luck or good management, found the two optimal ways to deal with Vlad far sooner than we did. With Vlad, you either had to suckhole to him or to stand up to him, or a combination of both. We did none of these. Leaving us in the worst possible position.

Look up the definition of inconsistency and there's a picture of Vlad.

 

[Pdub]

Why was our club punished and not just Trigg and Harper, if we were to follow similar logic.

Melbourne were already rock bottom, if the AFL punished them they would have folded. The AFL did try to fine them $500k but they couldn't afford to pay it so the AFL gave them money.