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2016 Draft discussion

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Elixuh said:
All of the misguided commentary and shock that we didn't pick him is nauseating. The academies are beginning to do their job in widening the talent pool for the entire comp, something that is lost on those who go on about them in the media.
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I think there's still a mindset that the Academy is a free hit. It isn't. The price to pay generally is only marginally less than what the market is prepared to pay.

If we had to trade out a decent sized 2017 draft downgrade for the rights to Watson then people would be quite upset. In reality, that would have been the cost of drafting Watson.

The other thing to look at is what trade item of value would we have been prepared to get rid of in order to get the second round pick we needed to match a bid on Watson. It probably would have meant downgrading one of our picks in the twenties and consequently missing out on Witherden or Cox.

The final aspect is whether we really want the club reaching with its draft selections. If we see Watson as worth pick 50+, do we really want to spend a pick in the 30s? Is the premium on getting the local kid that large?

I actually think we've got to readjust our attitudes towards these Academy players. They aren't our players until we take them in the draft. I sense people develop the same loyalty to them as our listed players. I see them regularly listed in teams/squads for the future, often 12 months prior to their draft. We obviously need to be mindful of them but any attachment beyond that creates a risk that people will be disappointed when circumstances change. We saw that with Ainsworth this year too when something perceived to be "locked in" went awry as the draft approached.
 
POBT said:
I think there's still a mindset that the Academy is a free hit. It isn't. The price to pay generally is only marginally less than what the market is prepared to pay.

If we had to trade out a decent sized 2017 draft downgrade for the rights to Watson then people would be quite upset. In reality, that would have been the cost of drafting Watson.

The other thing to look at is what trade item of value would we have been prepared to get rid of in order to get the second round pick we needed to match a bid on Watson. It probably would have meant downgrading one of our picks in the twenties and consequently missing out on Witherden or Cox.

The final aspect is whether we really want the club reaching with its draft selections. If we see Watson as worth pick 50+, do we really want to spend a pick in the 30s? Is the premium on getting the local kid that large?

I actually think we've got to readjust our attitudes towards these Academy players. They aren't our players until we take them in the draft. I sense people develop the same loyalty to them as our listed players. I see them regularly listed in teams/squads for the future, often 12 months prior to their draft. We obviously need to be mindful of them but any attachment beyond that creates a risk that people will be disappointed when circumstances change. We saw that with Ainsworth this year too when something perceived to be "locked in" went awry as the draft approached.
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The cost of not drafting Watson is the $100k and the years we spent training him only for another team to benefit from it. Good job Lions Management this is why the club is millions of dollars in the shit.
 
Ruse said:
The cost of not drafting Watson is the $100k and the years we spent training him only for another team to benefit from it. Good job Lions Management this is why the club is millions of dollars in the shit.
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/facepalm
 

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if we go the maximum we can take in the rookie (3 i think). i would like Liam Ryan, Zach Sproule and Tony Olango.

Liam Ryan
Subiaco
184cm/76kg
2/10/96
Ryan is an Indigenous prospect from Geraldton who is super talented and regularly produces eye-catching moments. Ryan plays as a half-forward but is aerially very strong for a player his size, and he likes to fly for marks. But he's also zippy and creative at ground level, where he makes the most of his chances.

Zach Sproule
Tall forward/defender
196cm/89kg
12/4/98
Murray Bushrangers/NSW-ACT

The GWS academy product didn't get a chance via the national draft but may appeal as a rookie selection. Sproule's best attribute is that he can play at either end, and he is also an excellent long-distance runner so is able to move up and down the ground. Sproule is a nice, long kick for goal when stationed in attack but may be best suited to defence in a negating role. The Giants nominated him as an academy pick but did not take him at the draft.

Tony Olango
Ruckman
197cm/82kg
2/9/98
St Marys/NT

Tim English and Sean Darcy were the only pure ruckmen to get a shot on Friday, showing that clubs tend to prefer to trade for rucks or take them as rookies if they can. That may open the door for Olango to get a shot after showing great athleticism and improvement across the year. The NT prospect is a strong leap and has added some muscle to his frame, plus he is quite good with the ball in his hands at avoiding traffic and being solid by foot.
 
Fatcat08 said:
I think elixuh was more talking about the media etc. Highly doubt he was addressing you in particular with his comments. Relax
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Sorry I read it differently, I haven't seen a lot of media on this issue. Most of the chatter I've seen has been on here. Apologies to elixuh if that was the case.


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jason pm said:
if we go the maximum we can take in the rookie (3 i think). i would like Liam Ryan, Zach Sproule and Tony Olango.

Liam Ryan
Subiaco
184cm/76kg
2/10/96
Ryan is an Indigenous prospect from Geraldton who is super talented and regularly produces eye-catching moments. Ryan plays as a half-forward but is aerially very strong for a player his size, and he likes to fly for marks. But he's also zippy and creative at ground level, where he makes the most of his chances.

Zach Sproule
Tall forward/defender
196cm/89kg
12/4/98
Murray Bushrangers/NSW-ACT

The GWS academy product didn't get a chance via the national draft but may appeal as a rookie selection. Sproule's best attribute is that he can play at either end, and he is also an excellent long-distance runner so is able to move up and down the ground. Sproule is a nice, long kick for goal when stationed in attack but may be best suited to defence in a negating role. The Giants nominated him as an academy pick but did not take him at the draft.

Tony Olango
Ruckman
197cm/82kg
2/9/98
St Marys/NT

Tim English and Sean Darcy were the only pure ruckmen to get a shot on Friday, showing that clubs tend to prefer to trade for rucks or take them as rookies if they can. That may open the door for Olango to get a shot after showing great athleticism and improvement across the year. The NT prospect is a strong leap and has added some muscle to his frame, plus he is quite good with the ball in his hands at avoiding traffic and being solid by foot.
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Great choices, hard to see getting them all but it would be nice.
 
Even if we had the picks to match Watson without going into debt we probably wouldn't have matched because we simply didn't rate him that highly in terms of bids. Our guys have been coaching and watching these academy kids for years, they have the best possible information to make that decision.
 
Not sure where this should go....

“He (Chris Fagan) had a little chat with Jarrod Berry and I and we sat with him most of the night. He’s a ripping guy and I’m looking forward to working with him. He just said he was looking forward to having us there and that there’s a good opportunity there if we work hard.” — Hugh McCluggage.


“It was a bit of a relief I guess. I was in the room with Andy and either way it went, we were both pretty happy. He’s a terrific guy and very deserving of it. It’s a bit of a weight off the shoulders, understanding where I was going to go when that first pick was read out.” — Hugh McCluggage.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...s/news-story/8e89333eb281903fa166a95607eb9fc3
 

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Looking at Cedric Cox's highlights, if he's a left footer his right is almost as good, and if he's a right footer I reckon his left is even better. Great skills on both sides in the highlights package. Very underrated these days and also very rare to see in the AFL these days. Mitchell, Aker, Black the only ones I can think of that were elite on both sides. Blacks handballing skills too were next level.
 
Matt_BL said:
Looking at Cedric Cox's highlights, if he's a left footer his right is almost as good, and if he's a right footer I reckon his left is even better. Great skills on both sides in the highlights package. Very underrated these days and also very rare to see in the AFL these days. Mitchell, Aker, Black the only ones I can think of that were elite on both sides. Blacks handballing skills too were next level.
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Haha, I came here to post the same thing! Just saw his highlight video, his ambidextrous ability is really exciting to see.
 
Matchu said:
How high are you guys expecting Connor Ballenden (Wests) to go next year?
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Cal Twomey has him in his 10 to watch (but having said that doesn't have Worpel in there who seems a potential number 1.)

We always tend to overrate our academy kids but he seems a genuine 1st round prospect at this stage
 
Always hard to know. Allison was meant to be a top 5 pick but ended up in the 50s. At thIs stage Ballenden is one of the top forward prospects in what is a very tall draft class. where he finishes depends on how much more he improves and how well he plays.

I love the though of having a 3 tall forward line of Ballenden/Schache/Hipwood in 5 years time, but 1 of those blokes will need to do some ruck work to make it work.
 

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chopperduck said:
Always hard to know. Allison was meant to be a top 5 pick but ended up in the 50s. At thIs stage Ballenden is one of the top forward prospects in what is a very tall draft class. where he finishes depends on how much more he improves and how well he plays.

I love the though of having a 3 tall forward line of Ballenden/Schache/Hipwood in 5 years time, but 1 of those blokes will need to do some ruck work to make it work.
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Thats the best bit. We have a forward line of completly different players. Ballenden is the typical Full Forward and he can ruck a bit (he actually has rucked before), Schache is the typical CHF who gets up the ground takes marks and kicks goals. While Hippy is the X-Factor who can bob up out of nowhere and kick several goals or even have a run through the middle. You don't want 3 forwards who play exactly the same.
 
Ballenden is a big lad with massive skin folds so he lacks conditioning, repeat efforts, and endurance etc. which are all related so IMO if he is to be a top 5 pick next year he needs to start training harder on these things. Honestly from what I've seen and heard from people he relies on his size far too much against 16 and 17 year olds. I think he will drop down next year as defenders get stronger and improve their technique (team defence for example) against the bigger bodies such as Ballenden. I would be rapt if he is top 10 as we see every year Lions academy players don't really improve from U16 to U18 for some reason.
 
What i like most about the highlights on Cox is that he still has physicality to him. He tackles hard, and he is willing to leave his kicks to the last split second and take some contact to nail it. Also like the weighting on his kicks, they are nice and flat, travel across the ground quickly but he also puts them into space well. His kicking nearly reminds me of Trapper in how he picks and hits good options, but unlike Trapper he doesnt seem to try drill the ball in to force it. Seems like he has a good ability to quickly find the right option too. Sums up the play quickly, then finds the right time and place to execute the pass.

Is the type of player id rather have playing from HB or wing to make best use of his kicking. Not sure what his ability to cover ground defensively is like though. He seems alright in the air, so dont think he would get exposed too much. But you gotta be able to run hard both ways playing from the back and through the middle.
 
SizeMatters said:
Ballenden is a big lad with massive skin folds so he lacks conditioning, repeat efforts, and endurance etc. which are all related so IMO if he is to be a top 5 pick next year he needs to start training harder on these things. Honestly from what I've seen and heard from people he relies on his size far too much against 16 and 17 year olds. I think he will drop down next year as defenders get stronger and improve their technique (team defence for example) against the bigger bodies such as Ballenden. I would be rapt if he is top 10 as we see every year Lions academy players don't really improve from U16 to U18 for some reason.
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From the limited vision I have seen of him I have witnessed the opposite, I have wanted him to use his size more, but hopefully this is beneficial in the long run (as you point out being overly reliant on being bigger than other kids is flawed in the long term).

He definitely has some work to do with his overall conditioning, but I think this will come as he works on his tank.

Every key forward can get fitter, but not every highly rated junior key forward has the capacity to build bulk (see Lucas Cook). He reminds me of Boyd in that size comes easy but fitness not so much.
 
WA Lion said:
From the limited vision I have seen of him I have witnessed the opposite, I have wanted him to use his size more, but hopefully this is beneficial in the long run (as you point out being overly reliant on being bigger than other kids is flawed in the long term).

He definitely has some work to do with his overall conditioning, but I think this will come as he works on his tank.

Every key forward can get fitter, but not every highly rated junior key forward has the capacity to build bulk (see Lucas Cook). He reminds me of Boyd in that size comes easy but fitness not so much.
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Fair enough about him using his size I'm only going by a well placed source as I haven't really seen enough of him but a few games and it looked like he towered over everyone else. Said his skin folds are a huge concern and said he will be one of those blokes that will struggle to stay 'AFL fit'. Biggest concerns are his repeat efforts and conditioning and he has been put on some exercise plans to help combat these apparently.
 

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