2016 Draft discussion

[Kevvo]

Tangentially related, but I noticed that in the AFL.com write-up of the NSW vs QLD U18s game, the bests for Queensland were as follows:

Queensland: Rolls, Scheer, D.Watson, Kempe, Williams, Bowes

It's a small sample, but that's encouraging given Bowes is being talked about as a top 3 prospect. Not sure how that squares with the view of people who watched the game (dlanod ?).

 

[dlanod]

Tangentially related, but I noted that in the AFL.com write-up of the NSW vs QLD U18s game, the bests for Queensland were as follows:

Queensland: Rolls, Scheer, D.Watson, Kempe, Williams, Bowes

It's a small sample, but that's encouraging given Bowes is being talked about as a top 3 prospect. Not sure how that squares with the view of people who watched the game (dlanod ?).

I haven't seen enough to comment on Bowes versus other players in the pool enough to say where he'd be, but IMO he was easily the best midfielder out there for Qld for most of the game. I'd rate Rolls' stint in the midfield in the second half as better, but his first half off the half-back line was quieter.

 

[Kevvo]

I haven't seen enough to comment on Bowes versus other players in the pool enough to say where he'd be, but IMO he was easily the best midfielder out there for Qld for most of the game. I'd rate Rolls' stint in the midfield in the second half as better, but his first half off the half-back line was quieter.

Yeah, sorry. My question was a bit unclear. I was angling more at whether AFL.com's bests seemed a fair ordering as opposed to where Bowes fits in the cohort. It sounds like you think line-ball or thereabouts.

One game isn't much to base an evaluation off, but it's encouraging to see our academy kids performing well in their tougher games. It also hopefully improves our chances of seeing them play for the Allies.

 

[Quigley]

It seems pretty fair to me. I might have put Bowes a bit higher but that order has the guys who probably impressed the most.

 

[M Malice]

just listened to the road to the draft podcast featuring kinnear beatson, very impressive individual speaking about how you go about building a list, what you look for in young players.

the trait he says he looks for in players is determination to succeed. he did make mistakes in the past selecting players with great natural ability but not the mindset to succeed. also an oldy but a goody i select "footballers not athletes". the swans rated luke parker in the low 20s in his draft year and could not believe he slipped to pick 40. some clubs knock on him was he wasn't a good mover.

hopefully rhys matheison is our luke parker.

 

[dlanod]

Yeah, sorry. My question was a bit unclear. I was angling more at whether AFL.com's bests seemed a fair ordering as opposed to where Bowes fits in the cohort. It sounds like you think line-ball or thereabouts.

One game isn't much to base an evaluation off, but it's encouraging to see our academy kids performing well in their tougher games. It also hopefully improves our chances of seeing them play for the Allies.

Ranking those guys from the sideline I'd have gone

Queensland: Bowes, Rolls, Scheer, Williams, D.Watson, Kempe

 

[Quigley]

For me it probably would have been:

Scheer, Bowes, Rolls, Watson, Kempe, Marsden

Watson would have been higher but the injury knocked him down a bit.

 

[Dylan12]

Scheer, Bowes, Rolls, Watson, Kempe, Marsden

Aside from Allison, Rolls and Watson, are the other guys Lions Academy players?

 

[dmac_55]

I think we need to go midfield heavy this draft.. Our stocks need to be boulstered because by the time our key position players reach their peak (Andrews, Schache, Hippa) our core midfield will be late 20's touching 30.

Question for some more knowledgable with our current list: What younger midfielders do we have in our side that could in 5 years time be A grade? Excluding Beams, Zorko, Rocky, Hanley, Rich, Bast, Bundy
Keays and Mathieson jump out but apart from that I think our stocks are quite thin.. Squizzy is more of a flanker, wings type that I am not sure could turn into a genuine midfielder.

 

[dlanod]

Aside from Allison, Rolls and Watson, are the other guys Lions Academy players?

Nope, GC academy.

Lions academy members for this year (the crossed out aren't eligible for bidding nominations, bolded have been mentioned in the thread):

First Surname Age in 2016
Declan Watson 18
Dominic Paino 18
Jacob Allison 18
Jack Rolls 18
Jack Mammone 18
Luke O'Sullivan 18
Elliott Himmelberg 18
Nathanael Carswell 18
Sam Copland 18
Jason Kennedy 18
Liam Molan 18
Hayden Tompkins 18
Luca Mason 18
Campbell Walker 18
Ryan Dadds 18
Lachlan Dennis 18
Charlie Pershouse 18
Samuel Blackberry 18
Will Fletcher 18
Lenny Christie 18
Troy Hammond 18
Matthew Went 18
James Puschman 18
James Barnes 18
Brodi Finn 18
Ben McGrory 18
Nick Smith 18
Billy Lambert 18

 

[WA Lion]

Nope, GC academy.

Lions academy members for this year (the crossed out aren't eligible for bidding nominations, bolded have been mentioned in the thread):

First Surname Age in 2016
Declan Watson 18
Dominic Paino 18
Jacob Allison 18
Jack Rolls 18
Jack Mammone 18
Luke O'Sullivan 18
Elliott Himmelberg 18
Nathanael Carswell 18
Sam Copland 18
Jason Kennedy 18
Liam Molan 18
Hayden Tompkins 18
Luca Mason 18
Campbell Walker 18
Ryan Dadds 18
Lachlan Dennis 18
Charlie Pershouse 18
Samuel Blackberry 18
Will Fletcher 18
Lenny Christie 18
Troy Hammond 18
Matthew Went 18
James Puschman 18
James Barnes 18
Brodi Finn 18
Ben McGrory 18
Nick Smith 18
Billy Lambert 18

I've never seen him play but Luca Mason has started the season well hasn't he? Just going from the QLD/Academy game match reports

 

[M Malice]

dmac_55 whilst i don't consider myself more knowledgeable i would add to keays and matheison, nick robertson, billy evans + jacob allison and jack rolls next year and i think tom cutler could transform into a good outside mid in time. i would also like lewy taylor to be given a bit more time as a mid apparently he was very good as a mid in his junior years.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Whilst I think we need inside midfielders pretty badly I think our list is at the stage where we take best avaliable with our first round pick. We need help at every line.

 

[Kevvo]

Whilst I think we need inside midfielders pretty badly I think our list is at the stage where we take best avaliable with our first round pick. We need help at every line.

I strongly agree, although I'd say we take the best available player who we're confident has the personality to stick around if we meet them halfway (to steal a Lambertism).

We're nowhere near the point where any region on the field is overloaded with talent. I think there's an argument that you begin a rebuild with the best talls you can find because of the time they take, but after a year or two of investment I'd pick best available from then on. For me, we're probably at that point, noting that Ballenden looks a likely tall for next year.

 

[jjami15]

I strongly agree, although I'd say we take the best available player who we're confident has the personality to stick around if we meet them halfway (to steal a Lambertism).

We're nowhere near the point where any region on the field is overloaded with talent. I think there's an argument that you begin a rebuild with the best talls you can find because of the time they take, but after a year or two of investment I'd pick best available from then on. For me, we're probably at that point, noting that Ballenden looks a likely tall for next year.

Understand your point but we currently do have a number of young talls that I think will hold us in good stead. Majority of those are KPD's and as highlighted Ballandean next year to add to our KPF's. I believe in building the spine and we have Schache and Andrews as our CHF and CHB, so possibly missing a FB and FF but at the moment Skinner/Close and Declan Watson might be able to fill the role of FB and Ballendean as FF. I wouldn't be adverse to taking another KPF from this draft depending on where we finish and how highly rated they were. As a must we need to draft two ruckman from this draft IMO with one being in the main and the other the rookie. Hopefully in five years we have a spine at the top of their game.

 

[Quigley]

Understand your point but we currently do have a number of young talls that I think will hold us in good stead. Majority of those are KPD's and as highlighted Ballandean next year to add to our KPF's. I believe in building the spine and we have Schache and Andrews as our CHF and CHB, so possibly missing a FB and FF but at the moment Skinner/Close and Declan Watson might be able to fill the role of FB and Ballendean as FF. I wouldn't be adverse to taking another KPF from this draft depending on where we finish and how highly rated they were. As a must we need to draft two ruckman from this draft IMO with one being in the main and the other the rookie. Hopefully in five years we have a spine at the top of their game.

Also from memory there is also a highly regarded KP in the academy the year after Ballenden. So we have a couple coming through. I am not sure I would be picking another this year.

 

[dmac_55]

dmac_55 whilst i don't consider myself more knowledgeable i would add to keays and matheison, nick robertson, billy evans + jacob allison and jack rolls next year and i think tom cutler could transform into a good outside mid in time. i would also like lewy taylor to be given a bit more time as a mid apparently he was very good as a mid in his junior years.

Hopefully rolls and Allison work out. Does anyone have approximate heigh/weight on these 2?

I like what the Dee's have done, secure hogan then go all out on inside midfielders who win their own ball. We can always look at trading further down the track for help but we need to lock down 3-4 foundation midfielders in the next 24 months..

Hopefully Robertson can become a future Mitch Robbo for us.. Contested ball, tackling and pressure inside.. It would be great to add a mid of the ilk of Bont, Cripps, Viney that can be a pillar of our side

 

[jjami15]

Allison - 194cm 80kg
Rolls - 183cm 74kg

 

[Eons]

We need class, outside, inside, tall, small, wherever. We need it.

 

[Eons]

Allison - 194cm 80kg
Rolls - 183cm 74kg

Rolls must have grown a bit this year, last time I saw him listed he was 180 or 181.

 

[jjami15]

Rolls must have grown a bit this year, last time I saw him listed he was 180 or 181.

He's out on a bit of size/muscle as well.

 

[briztoon]

To many posts I'd like to quote and respond to, but there would be a few repetitive responses, so I'm just going to add my thoughts in a single post.

I listened to the latest Road to the Draft podcast with Kenner Beatson. He mentioned two different routes to contending, both I agree with, but only one applies to Lions as I see the team right now. Beatson said of his time at the Lions, that the team deliberately went for a youth movement in the early to mid 90's and this resulted in the team that threepeated. That's basically what I have been advocating, suggesting that by bottoming out for about three years, we can draft a best player available, as well as adding top Academy talent, and picking up possible draft sliders. We could possibly draft 12 to 15 core players in that three year period, and then continue adding top Academy talent as we climb the ladder, or add solid interstate talent with a mid first round pick if the Academy is having a down year, such as the Swans academy this year isn't projected to produce a first round talented player.

I know it's early days, and a lot can change over the next 7 months, but this years draft pool is not expected produce as many KPP as last year, and I'm not sure if there are more than two projected Rucks in this draft, and I believe at least one of those is an over age player. Next years draft is expected to contain a decent spread of KPP, rucks and mids. This years first round is mainly viewed as either Academy talent, mids or undersized KPF's or smaller forward types with question marks.

There are four non Academy midfielders expected to be available (at this stage - they could slide back or others players/positions climb in to contention) at the top end of the draft. A Forward/inside midfielder, two contested inside midfielders, and a much hyped (and supposed Lions supporter) W.A midfield utility who is said to have similar traits to Shaun Burgoyne/Sam Mitchell/Cyril Rioli.

Personally, if the Lions end with a top 3 draft pick this year, I would be willing to trade over the odds to acquire another top 3 draft pick for the chance to draft both Sam Petrevski-Seton and William Brodie. Only players off the table would be our top 6 young players and next years first and second round draft picks.

My one concern about the Lions future is the talk I have read on here that the club isn't willing to spend the money off the field to provide a first class set up. Rarely does a sporting team succeed where appropriate facilities aren't available. It's usually a sign that the club lacks true ambition. And yes I realise that financial realities do come in to play

 

[James North]

My one concern about the Lions future is the talk I have read on here that the club isn't willing to spend the money off the field to provide a first class set up. Rarely does a sporting team succeed where appropriate facilities aren't available. It's usually a sign that the club lacks true ambition. And yes I realise that financial realities do come in to play

Sorry to just pick a bit out, but it's not that we're not willing, it's that we're already tens of millions in debt and no level of Government has been willing to come to the party, whereas they fall over themselves to do this in Victoria. The Government up here helped the Broncos expand at Red Hill and that club is loaded.

 

[briztoon]

Sorry to just pick a bit out, but it's not that we're not willing, it's that we're already tens of millions in debt and no level of Government has been willing to come to the party, whereas they fall over themselves to do this in Victoria. The Government up here helped the Broncos expand at Red Hill and that club is loaded.

It's all good. Hence the last line of the paragraph. I do realise there are debt constraints on the club. Maybe a more appropriate assessment would be as long as the club is financially constrained, genuine contention may be questionable.

 

[James North]

It's all good. Hence the last line of the paragraph. I do realise there are debt constraints on the club. Maybe a more appropriate assessment would be as long as the club is financially constrained, genuine contention may be questionable.

Yeah I definitely agree with that sentiment - it's tough to compete on-field when we spend less on football department and equipment etc. My understanding is that Collingwood's facilities helped push VFL Superstar James Aish over the line when he visited.