List Mgmt. 2016 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[Giant Strides]

Do we have academy boys who will be around when we have our first pick? And if yes, what are their names?

Also, don't we have to bid on them or something? Obviously we don't just get them for free, right? And they would want to be good enough if we bid on them.

Main GWS academy kids & their approximate rating:

• Will Setterfield - tall midfielder - top 10 pick
• Harry Perryman - inside midfielder / utility - top 10 pick
• Harrison Macreadie - KPD - late first round pick
• Zach Sproule - KPF - mid to late second round pick
• Kobe Mutch - outside midfielder - mid to late second round pick
• Ryan Garthwaite - KPD - third round pick
• Isaac Cumming - medium defender - third or fourth round pick
• Max Lynch - ruck - fourth or later round pick or rookie selection

This article will give you a bit of detail. Just note that Todd Marshall is from NSW but was excluded from our academy selections. http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/news/2016-10-05/future-stars

This article will tell you about the bidding process: http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/Father-son-bidding-system.pdf
Essentially, any club can bid on an academy or father-son kid. The club to whom he is affiliated then has the choice of matching the bid or not matching and letting him go to the bidding club. Matching bids are based on a points system, with a 20% discount to the matching club. Matching clubs must use their first available pick, and if that doesn't provide enough points, successive picks until the points are matched. Any points left over put that pick back in the draft order; any exhausted picks are returned to the back of the draft (where effectively they are not worth anything, although they could still be used for a selection but not to match a bid).

This year GWS seem likely to match on Setterfield, Perryman and likely Macreadie; but it depends on what the club sees as exact needs and who else they can get in the draft. i.e. if they get McGrath, it will cost several picks to trade up to be in a position to get him as he's not academy, so we might forego some academy selections as a result.

 

[Bokonon]

You took my post seriously?

.....dude.....

I did
Although I use sarcasm I dont read it that well. I thought about it, and I recall you're a fan of Stevie J.

 

[Giant Heart]

Main GWS academy kids & their approximate rating:

• Will Setterfield - tall midfielder - top 10 pick
• Harry Perryman - inside midfielder / utility - top 10 pick
• Harrison Macreadie - KPD - late first round pick
• Zach Sproule - KPF - mid to late second round pick
• Kobe Mutch - outside midfielder - mid to late second round pick
• Ryan Garthwaite - KPD - third round pick
• Isaac Cumming - medium defender - third or fourth round pick
• Max Lynch - ruck - fourth or later round pick or rookie selection

This article will give you a bit of detail. Just note that Todd Marshall is from NSW but was excluded from our academy selections. http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/news/2016-10-05/future-stars

This article will tell you about the bidding process: http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/Father-son-bidding-system.pdf
Essentially, any club can bid on an academy or father-son kid. The club to whom he is affiliated then has the choice of matching the bid or not matching and letting him go to the bidding club. Matching bids are based on a points system, with a 20% discount to the matching club. Matching clubs must use their first available pick, and if that doesn't provide enough points, successive picks until the points are matched. Any points left over put that pick back in the draft order; any exhausted picks are returned to the back of the draft (where effectively they are not worth anything, although they could still be used for a selection but not to match a bid).

This year GWS seem likely to match on Setterfield, Perryman and likely Macreadie; but it depends on what the club sees as exact needs and who else they can get in the draft. i.e. if they get McGrath, it will cost several picks to trade up to be in a position to get him as he's not academy, so we might forego some academy selections as a result.

Thanks for all that info! I'll get my hear around it all in time.

Wow, I never knew that there was so many talented kids in NSW that would sit so high up the ladder. And that's just our academies, right?

Sydney also has their own academy where they got Heeney and Mills, yes? So, without looking at their academy, there's potentially that many again talented NSW kids?

That really is great and it goes to show how relevant our (and Sydney) club is in growing the game and developing the kids of NSW.

In time, with our massive relative population, if the game grows to any significant level, NSW will be depositing truck loads of talent in which there'll be a surplus to requirements for Sydney and GWS.

Don't these muppets in Vic realise that it's short term pain for long term gain?

As a result of the NSW clubs' existence there will be plenty more talent in the draft pool as time goes by, and a lot more relative to the two expansion clubs (providing the same success is experienced in Queensland).

 

[Giant Strides]

List size seems a bit ambiguous at present, but I don't think we're too disadvantaged given that we seemed likely to reduce to 40 players for 2017 anyway. Previously my understanding was list size was 38 main list, 2 veterans and 4 rookies or 38 + 6 rookies. Although at one stage Brisbane & Sydney were allowed 9 rookies. I'm presuming that in line with the abolition of the veterans' allowance that the '2 veterans' list size goes also - I have seen comments around about list sizes of 38 to 40 but without explanation. If that is the case - and happy if anyone ITK can confirm or deny - then 40 seems like it is likely to be a final number for our list reduction anyway. And from what I can judge of the discussion on veterans' allowance, some clubs are disadvantaged by its removal.

So while I agree that it's shitty (although par for the course) for AFL to make a sudden and unannounced change to out conditions, I don't think we can complain too much about the substance of the final list size/TPP.

The bigger complaint is probably the impact on our TPP and list management when we were expecting to have a more gradual degradation. Even more so, it means that the other clubs raiding our players know that we can't push back because we need to reduce our salary cap. So the trade value for guys like WHE & McCarthy will probably be worse than previously expected because we've had a significant aspect of our counterargument just pulled out.

 

[Giant Strides]

Wow, I never knew that there was so many talented kids in NSW that would sit so high up the ladder. And that's just our academies, right?

Sydney also has their own academy where they got Heeney and Mills, yes? So, without looking at their academy, there's potentially that many again talented NSW kids?

That really is great and it goes to show how relevant our (and Sydney) club is in growing the game and developing the kids of NSW.

In time, with our massive relative population, if the game grows to any significant level, NSW will be depositing truck loads of talent in which there'll be a surplus to requirements for Sydney and GWS.

Yes, those guys are just GWS. Swans academy tends to only have 1 to 2 high end players each year and none this year; Lions had a good year last year, none really high this year, better prospects next year; Suns first couple of academy guns arrive this draft period.

There is plenty of discussion on several threads, but the number of kids drafted out of the GWS zone, which includes areas that do traditionally play Aussie Rules (i.e. the Riverina) has certainly increased dramatically since the GWS academy commenced. There were a handful of high draft picks in the 20 years prior to 2015, a few more lower down who have done well. But last year was the first year of high production: GWS drafted 4 kids, all academy, at #7, #13, #16 & #41 - all matched bids. The Victorian knock on the GWS academy is that it's traditional Aussie rules area and we're putting no effort in and just picking them up cheaply. That's certainly not true. The other criticism is that many of these guys go to boarding schools in Victoria in years 11 & 12 once they realise they might get drafted (often enticed by sports scholarships), so the Vics reckon they've done all of the development work.

Don't these muppets in Vic realise that it's short term pain for long term gain?

They don't care about long term, they care about how they push every other club down so they can climb over them to the top of the heap.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Thanks for all that info! I'll get my hear around it all in time.

Wow, I never knew that there was so many talented kids in NSW that would sit so high up the ladder. And that's just our academies, right?

And those were just the main ones. The one I want us to rookie list is a young kid called Connor Owen-Auburn. He played some really nice footy for us in the NEAFL the past couple of years. Had his best game, as far as I'm concerned, in the grand final. And the bonus for him is that he's from the St Clair Crows.

Now, as a mighty Penrith Giant, I would normally say "Boo Hissssss" at the St Clair Crows, but in this case.... He would be the first Western Sydney product on our list (if you don't count Dylan Addison*) and there's another WS product in Connor Byrne from the Hills area, but he might be next year. (What is it with the name Connor in WS?)








* or Setanta O'hAilpin, but he sort of doesn't really count.

 

[Vic pokiesmon]

Main GWS academy kids & their approximate rating:

• Will Setterfield - tall midfielder - top 10 pick
• Harry Perryman - inside midfielder / utility - top 10 pick
• Harrison Macreadie - KPD - late first round pick
• Zach Sproule - KPF - mid to late second round pick
• Kobe Mutch - outside midfielder - mid to late second round pick
• Ryan Garthwaite - KPD - third round pick
• Isaac Cumming - medium defender - third or fourth round pick
• Max Lynch - ruck - fourth or later round pick or rookie selection

This article will give you a bit of detail. Just note that Todd Marshall is from NSW but was excluded from our academy selections. http://www.gwsgiants.com.au/news/2016-10-05/future-stars

This article will tell you about the bidding process: http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/Father-son-bidding-system.pdf
Essentially, any club can bid on an academy or father-son kid. The club to whom he is affiliated then has the choice of matching the bid or not matching and letting him go to the bidding club. Matching bids are based on a points system, with a 20% discount to the matching club. Matching clubs must use their first available pick, and if that doesn't provide enough points, successive picks until the points are matched. Any points left over put that pick back in the draft order; any exhausted picks are returned to the back of the draft (where effectively they are not worth anything, although they could still be used for a selection but not to match a bid).

This year GWS seem likely to match on Setterfield, Perryman and likely Macreadie; but it depends on what the club sees as exact needs and who else they can get in the draft. i.e. if they get McGrath, it will cost several picks to trade up to be in a position to get him as he's not academy, so we might forego some academy selections as a result.

Of the few games I saw with Academy boys involved the only one who really impressed me was Kobe Mutch.I thought he looked a potential elite mid and clocked up a lot of possessions in the games I saw.Anyone who has seen more of him know why he is only rated a mid-late second round pick? Small build was the only negative I could see

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Of the few games I saw with Academy boys involved the only one who really impressed me was Kobe Mutch.I thought he looked a potential elite mid and clocked up a lot of possessions in the games I saw.Anyone who has seen more of him know why he is only rated a mid-late second round pick? Small build was the only negative I could see

Got to agree. The game I saw was against Vic Country and he was very nearly best on for mine. Kicked a coup,e and had two absolutely robbed (one that clearly wasn't touched off the boot and one where Marshall marked it almost over the line when all he had to do was not). Really liked him that day. Will be a steal if we get him cheap.

 

[Giant Strides]

Of the few games I saw with Academy boys involved the only one who really impressed me was Kobe Mutch.I thought he looked a potential elite mid and clocked up a lot of possessions in the games I saw.Anyone who has seen more of him know why he is only rated a mid-late second round pick? Small build was the only negative I could see

Have a read of Knightmare's draft thread with pros & cons. He a bit biased, tends to overrate academy kids, but his general description is always interesting.
The main knock on Kobe seems to be that he doesn't hurt the opposition with his possessions, and lacks 'x-factor'. The good points are impressive though - a slightly lesser Lachie Whitfield. Knightmare actually rates him more highly at #12, but he's generally outside anyone else's top 25, which I've elected to go with. Since he's probably a bit similar to Lachie Whitfield & Tom Scully, I'm of the view that he is one that GWS are likely to pass, although I'm like you in that what I've seen of him during the televised U18 Championships was impressive. I can see him going a bit earlier to a club that needs that outside run (and he can get his own ball from stoppages). However, if clubs think that GWS won't match, they're probably more likely to let him drift back a bit given the solid array of talent that will be available into the 20s.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Knightmare is known to be anti academy.

I will use alternate ratings to see where the academy boys sit but perryman, setterfield and macreadie are all locks.

Sproule is looking likely to be matched as we are losing lots of tall depth this off season and may lose brander next draft.

 

[dlanod]

List size seems a bit ambiguous at present, but I don't think we're too disadvantaged given that we seemed likely to reduce to 40 players for 2017 anyway. Previously my understanding was list size was 38 main list, 2 veterans and 4 rookies or 38 + 6 rookies. Although at one stage Brisbane & Sydney were allowed 9 rookies. I'm presuming that in line with the abolition of the veterans' allowance that the '2 veterans' list size goes also - I have seen comments around about list sizes of 38 to 40 but without explanation. If that is the case - and happy if anyone ITK can confirm or deny - then 40 seems like it is likely to be a final number for our list reduction anyway. And from what I can judge of the discussion on veterans' allowance, some clubs are disadvantaged by its removal.

The veterans outside of the list has been gone for a while. Brisbane & Sydney have the same number of rookie spots but there's a caveat as to how they can use them

The current situation for all clubs is:

1. 38 to 40 senior players.
2. 4 to 6 Category A (normal) rookies. These first two have to add up to 44 - so if you've got 40 senior players, you've only got 4 rookie spots.
3. 3 Category B (special) rookies. These can be Irish, non-AFL players, etc, or for the northern states, a rookie from their home state. This is why you thought Brisbane and Sydney have nine rookie spots - it's a lot easier for them (and us) to use these three.

http://www.afl.com.au/afl-hq/the-afl-explained/about-the-afl for confirmation.

Of the few games I saw with Academy boys involved the only one who really impressed me was Kobe Mutch.I thought he looked a potential elite mid and clocked up a lot of possessions in the games I saw.Anyone who has seen more of him know why he is only rated a mid-late second round pick? Small build was the only negative I could see

Mutch gets a lot of the ball but the knock on him is that he doesn't do much with it. I don't think that's unreasonable - it's not like he carved up teams so far.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Mutch gets a lot of the ball but the knock on him is that he doesn't do much with it. I don't think that's unreasonable - it's not like he carved up teams so far.

I remember when Toby Greene used to get a lot of it - and not only didn't he do much with it, he sort of did the opposite. I believed at one point that he should be wearing a blue and white stripped apron while out there on the field.

This year.... All Australian.

So Mutch doesn't do much with it - to which I say "At the moment"

And from what I've seen (limited admittedly, but more than just on field) I'd prefer to Mutch to Setterfield to be honest.

Like McCreadie, like Perryman, like Mutch, don't mind Sproule. Not sold on Setterfield.

 

[gee whiz giant]

I'm in the Kobe camp. Setterfield is bigger, like Cripps and Bont. (I've wondered if the near disappearance of the good ol' shirt-front has benefitted the bigger mid-fielders, -they can perfect sideways movement coz nothing's coming straight at 'em,) but back on topic, Mutch is more a 'Paul Kelly-profile' mid, the prototype accumulator.
Would like to see him in the orange.

 

[bungwahl]

Sydney also has their own academy where they got Heeney and Mills, yes? So, without looking at their academy, there's potentially that many again talented NSW kids?

Zero high rated kids coming through the Swans academy this year. Might be one late first round/2nd rounder next year, then maybe another decent kid in 2018.

 

[Big dog 25]

I reckon we should trade up for a big fish like rance or Martian

 

[coniglio_number1]

I reckon we should trade up for a big fish like rance or Martian

salary cap is the limiting factor for luring a big fish. also martin had an opportunityto join us a few years ago and the club knocked it back. obvious cultural problems

 

[Giant Pete]

Zach Sproule has huge potential. Elite runner and nearly 2m. Could be a smoky 1st round pick

 

[coniglio_number1]

Zach Sproule has huge potential. Elite runner and nearly 2m. Could be a smoky 1st round pick

Looking like a second rounder to me. Form hasn't been that great this season

 

[captainMyCaptain]

Watching the B&F coverage and apparently Finlayson isn't uncontracted and is actually contracted until '17

 

[actabunni]

McGrath will firm as the number 1 pick after the combine where he will absolutely kill it.

Kudos for our list management for identifying him as the pea well before anyone else but it will probably count for little.

If we miss him and have the 2 early picks we must take Ainsworth for needs and possibly Scrimshaw.

If Essendon keep their pick and we end up with 3 (from Dockers for 7) and 5 i think it may be:

1 - McGrath
2 - Bowes (Suns)
3 - McLuggage
4 - Ainsworth
5 - Scrimshaw

In this scenario would probably end up with Ainsworth, Scrimshaw, Setterfield, Perryman and Macreadie. Pretty good haul!

Alternatively if we managed 3 and 5 and gave that up for 1 and 19 we get:

McGrath, Setterfield, Perryman, and Macreadie. Also very nice.

For us 2 draft 5 players we will need 2 drop 8 players from our senior list. I just can't see that happening.

 

[Vic pokiesmon]

Brisbane has stated there open to trading pick two at the right price.I can't see a big name player wanting to be traded from any club so I think they are seeing what we may offer them

 

[Vic pokiesmon]

Agree with this but from what I remember of Kobe his disposal efficiency is a lot better than Toby's at the same age.

I remember when Toby Greene used to get a lot of it - and not only didn't he do much with it, he sort of did the opposite. I believed at one point that he should be wearing a blue and white stripped apron while out there on the field.

This year.... All Australian.

So Mutch doesn't do much with it - to which I say "At the moment"

And from what I've seen (limited admittedly, but more than just on field) I'd prefer to Mutch to Setterfield to be honest.

Like McCreadie, like Perryman, like Mutch, don't mind Sproule. Not sold on Setterfield.

this.From

 

[captainMyCaptain]

As expected Jack Steele has requested a trade to St Kilda
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-08/giants-man-of-steele-jumps-ship-to-saints

 

[Giant Strides]

Bugger!

 

[captainMyCaptain]

So if things go as expected Ahern could well be the last man standing from our '14 draft