List Mgmt. 2016 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[Bokonon]

I'm tipping Palmer to turn out one of the best trades Carlton has ever done. Salary aside, and I get it must have been a salary dump, he's a good small forward. Lost his spot to Stevie J and had a poor game in the PF I get. Maybe he struggled to focus in the NEAFL but with a regular spot in Carlton's best 22 beckoning I think he'll claim one.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

Just listening to Wayne Campbell on Sen and apparently we were only told 6 mths ago that our list size and cap would need to come in line with everyone else from 2017.

https://audioboom.com/posts/5188331...ent=card&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

 

[dlanod]

Palmer was an original out of contract player. One of the few brave souls that said - yep, I'll leave an established club to go out and stand in a wheelie bin full of ice at Gipps Road and do the hard yards building this brand new club that nobody wants in an area not known for football. Not like one of the young kids we had early access to who just wanted to be on a list. Palmer was a rising star winner at another club and it must have been a difficult decision to come to a club that had nothing. I'm happy we didn't just "de-list" him. We got him somewhere else without that concern. They can delist him instead.

Edit:
Just thought of another possibility:
maybe it was got for cover and protection, under the new rules. Maybe it was got simply to be able to give it back to the AFL when they say you have X list spots open so are only allowed X draft picks, you need to give up a draft pick or two to come down to that number. Giving up 135 is better than up 50 or 60something

In this case we also couldn't delist him as he was still under contract so someone had to pay that amount.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

Just listening to Wayne Campbell on Sen and apparently we were only told 6 mths ago that our list size and cap would need to come in line with everyone else from 2017.

https://audioboom.com/posts/5188331...ent=card&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

So it's confirmed - they changed the rules half way through the season when we started winning a few games. So much for list management and front loading/back ending contracts based on set rules. No wonder we had to dump players. That's actually really discgraceful.

 

[Determinant]

So it's confirmed - they changed the rules half way through the season when we started winning a few games. So much for list management and front loading/back ending contracts based on set rules. No wonder we had to dump players. That's actually really discgraceful.

We need Eddygate

 

[coniglio_number1]

Greater Western Sydney's keenness to retain players meant its first-round picks from several years ago had their initial contract extended before they had even played with big offers in their third season. It saw the Giants embark on something of a fire sale of talented youngsters who were unable to play regular senior football. Jarrod Pickett and Paul Ahern were on big deals before playing a senior game, while Will Hoskin-Elliott also had a handy pay packet lined up for 2017 and all three found new homes. Their departures alone trimmed the TPP by $1 million for next season.

So those 3 chewed up a cool mil of our cap?! Throw in the likes of Steele, marchbank, palmer(was on big bucks), Stewart, Etc and we have plenty of cap space to re-sign our core players in 2017.

Very shrewd work by our list manager as all we lost were fringe players and zero gamers. Biggest loss was Steele who in my eyes knew he wasn't best 22 lock and needs regular game time for the sake of his own career so I can't begrudge him.

Palmer is a loss simply due to his bigger body and experience but if you can't find yourself as best 22 regular when your 28 then it's best to move on. I thank him for his efforts during our early years but the core group doesn't need him anymore.

 

[dlanod]

So those 3 chewed up a cool mil of our cap?! Throw in the likes of Steele, marchbank, palmer(was on big bucks), Stewart, Etc and we have plenty of cap space to re-sign our core players in 2017.

League average wage is between $300k and $350k these days. For a first rounder that's not unexpected, so I can easily believe that especially with WHE re-signing when his stock was still very very high.

Very shrewd work by our list manager as all we lost were fringe players and zero gamers. Biggest loss was Steele who in my eyes knew he wasn't best 22 lock and needs regular game time for the sake of his own career so I can't begrudge him.

We're losing depth, but we're no different from any other team. You can't keep decent players in your reserves indefinitely, though ideally you want to keep them longer than two years a go.

Palmer is a loss simply due to his bigger body and experience but if you can't find yourself as best 22 regular when your 28 then it's best to move on. I thank him for his efforts during our early years but the core group doesn't need him anymore.

Agreed.

 

[Raymann]

So it's confirmed - they changed the rules half way through the season when we started winning a few games. So much for list management and front loading/back ending contracts based on set rules. No wonder we had to dump players. That's actually really discgraceful.

Don't think we have seen the end of equalisation of the Giants

 

[dlanod]

Don't think we have seen the end of equalisation of the Giants

What area? Academy?

 

[coniglio_number1]

So now that the trade period has wrapped up we are now moving into the next area of discussion which is the list lodgement period and then the draft.

What are everyone's thoughts towards our final OOC players

My thoughts are as follows
#26 Dawson Simpson (delist)
Was brought in as a mature age backup to mummy but when an opportunity presented we opted for Downie.

#28 Jake Barrett (re-sign for 1 year)
Overlooked for hopper, Steele, Palmer, Reid and Kennedy throughout the year but with the host of departures in the midfield depth he is now shot up the pecking order. Even though we are looking to bring in many quality midfielders this draft I would still like to spread the list age.

#39 Tim Mohr (demote to rookie list)
Poor tim has suffered perhaps the most of anyone on our list. With the emergence of Haynes and Tomlinson he is now surplus to needs with a host of younger, better players. Keep purely because he is a top bloke

#44 Tom Downie (re-sign for 1 year)
Keep him as insurance for mummy/lobb as only having Flynn could leave us exposed.

Happy to retain both rookies as they do not impact us in terms of cap.

 

[dlanod]

To be honest I'd rather send off Barrett with our best wishes in the hope he can find a better spot elsewhere. If Hopper and Kennedy are drafted and debuting straight away but Barrett can't come in, he's better off at another team.

 

[Gigantor]

Sam Killackey ‏@Killackey7 41m41 minutes ago
"How long will you be here for?"

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

So now that the trade period has wrapped up we are now moving into the next area of discussion which is the list lodgement period and then the draft.

What are everyone's thoughts towards our final OOC players

My thoughts are as follows
#26 Dawson Simpson (delist)
Was brought in as a mature age backup to mummy but when an opportunity presented we opted for Downie.

#28 Jake Barrett (re-sign for 1 year)
Overlooked for hopper, Steele, Palmer, Reid and Kennedy throughout the year but with the host of departures in the midfield depth he is now shot up the pecking order. Even though we are looking to bring in many quality midfielders this draft I would still like to spread the list age.

#39 Tim Mohr (demote to rookie list)
Poor tim has suffered perhaps the most of anyone on our list. With the emergence of Haynes and Tomlinson he is now surplus to needs with a host of younger, better players. Keep purely because he is a top bloke

#44 Tom Downie (re-sign for 1 year)
Keep him as insurance for mummy/lobb as only having Flynn could leave us exposed.

Happy to retain both rookies as they do not impact us in terms of cap.

The Dawson Simpson Appreciation Society is not going to like you for that....

Wouldn't be surprised to see Barrett delisted and picked up by one of the clubs that were supposedly looking at but didn't trade for.

 

[coniglio_number1]

Sam Killackey ‏@Killackey7 41m41 minutes ago
"How long will you be here for?"

This draft did not inspire me at the time and now I know why

 

[Big Stinky Monk]

Greater Western Sydney's keenness to retain players meant its first-round picks from several years ago had their initial contract extended before they had even played with big offers in their third season. It saw the Giants embark on something of a fire sale of talented youngsters who were unable to play regular senior football. Jarrod Pickett and Paul Ahern were on big deals before playing a senior game, while Will Hoskin-Elliott also had a handy pay packet lined up for 2017 and all three found new homes. Their departures alone trimmed the TPP by $1 million for next season.

So those 3 chewed up a cool mil of our cap?! Throw in the likes of Steele, marchbank, palmer(was on big bucks), Stewart, Etc and we have plenty of cap space to re-sign our core players in 2017.

Very shrewd work by our list manager as all we lost were fringe players and zero gamers. Biggest loss was Steele who in my eyes knew he wasn't best 22 lock and needs regular game time for the sake of his own career so I can't begrudge him.

Palmer is a loss simply due to his bigger body and experience but if you can't find yourself as best 22 regular when your 28 then it's best to move on. I thank him for his efforts during our early years but the core group doesn't need him anymore.

Hopefully Rhys doesn't get remembered for his last game with us (was ordinary). He was one of the pioneers and the work ethic that he brought across helped shape our club's culture. I hope he does well at Carlton.

 

[Giant Pete]

Does anyone know how many we will draft?

 

[Giant Pete]

If it's six, I hope we go with:
McGrath
Setterfield
Perryman
Macreadie (forgot him last time)
Sproule
Mutch

 

[Giant Pete]

I'm worried about our lack of tall forward depth.

 

[dlanod]

Does anyone know how many we will draft?

11?

 

[peters17]

If it's six, I hope we go with:
McGrath
Setterfield
Perryman
Macreadie (forgot him last time)
Sproule
Mutch

HH is versatile he can swing FWD (obviously) same as Jezza (Finlayson) I reckon.

 

[Giant Pete]

HH is versatile he can swing FWD (obviously) same as Jezza (Finlayson) I reckon.

Yeah I hope they train at both ends... we will need that flexibility going forward.

 

[Bogan Juniors]

I cannot believe we are worried about KPF depth most clubs would kill to have two of Cameron, Patton and Lobb in their side with we have Johnson, Smith, Green Delidio in the line and Himmelberg Flynn, Downie, even tomlinson could fill in in a pinch.....some of are are starting to sound a bit spoilt.

 

[Bokonon]

I cannot believe we are worried about KPF depth most clubs would kill to have two of Cameron, Patton and Lobb in their side with we have Johnson, Smith, Green Delidio in the line and Himmelberg Flynn, Downie, even tomlinson could fill in in a pinch.....some of are are starting to sound a bit spoilt.

Too much is barely enough. The general plays back a bit but next year looking good. We did look a bit short early this year with Jezza suspended. Particularly round three against the Swans with Lobb required in the ruck to stop Tippett.
If Flynn is ready next year we're good. Think Downie lives or dies as a ruckman. Last year he was ok as a contested mark, just ok in my view.

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

I'm worried about our lack of tall forward depth.

Himmleberg, TOJ, Flynn, Tomlinson

OK, so necessity has meant that they've all been swung back into defence, because we've been historically stretched down there, but all bar Flynn was a forward first and Flynn is a Lobb clone.

That's before we draft anybody.

 

[Giant Strides]

What are everyone's thoughts towards our final OOC players
#26 Dawson Simpson (delist)
Was brought in as a mature age backup to mummy but when an opportunity presented we opted for Downie.
#28 Jake Barrett (re-sign for 1 year)
Even though we are looking to bring in many quality midfielders this draft I would still like to spread the list age.
#39 Tim Mohr (demote to rookie list)
With the emergence of Haynes and Tomlinson he is now surplus to needs with a host of younger, better players. Keep purely because he is a top bloke
#44 Tom Downie (re-sign for 1 year)
Keep him as insurance for mummy/lobb as only having Flynn could leave us exposed.
Happy to retain both rookies as they do not impact us in terms of cap.

Can we demote straight onto the rookie list? I think we have to de-list then rookie draft don't we?
I would think our strategy will be linked to the National Draft and the numbers of picks we have/want to use. Currently have 32 list spots occupied, which only allows 8 picks, when we have 11 picks with points (and we traded for the later picks so presumably intend to use them). So I'd expect we'll de-list 3 of the 4 OOC players before draft night, to be able to use all picks with points, and then presumably re-draft with expended picks (provided no-one else grabs them), or rookie draft, some or all of them. Personally I think it's too high risk to only have Mummy, Lobb & a still very green Flynn as rucks, so one of Downie or Simpson for me gets re-signed early - I'd keep Downie personally.

Going into the ND then, we don't have a lot of capacity to match bids against all of our academy kids. Taking McGrath or McCluggage at pick 2, then matching Setterfield (assumed pick 6) & Perryman (assumed pick 10), we only have points to match about 1 kid in the 20s (Macreadie or Sproule I would think) and 2 kids in the 40s. The bidding system makes it very difficult to be definite about what we could do - if Setterfield and/or Perryman or bid later (as we saw last year with Kennedy), it gives more capacity to match in the 20s & 30s, if earlier, then less capacity. We might even choose to not match someone (would think Perryman in that case) to save pick points to take more kids in the 20s & 30s (e.g. Mutch, Macreadie & Sproule would all be possible without Perryman rather than just one of them). That gives us 6 draftees, making 35 spots, and 5 more to go (presuming that 40 is what we have to do - I would think that if we've been right-sized to the rest of the comp it is actually 38 to 40). So, options there would be to re-draft guys like Barrett and Mohr, upgrade Reid & Lloyd from the rookie list (allowing some new blood onto the rookie list) or pick up 'best available' kids at the back of the list.

Personal thoughts would be:

• re-sign Downie before the ND and de-list Mohr, Barrett & Simpson
• ND get McGrath/McCluggage, Setterfield, Perryman, Macreadie, Garthwaite, Cumming, re-draft Barrett, upgrade Reid & Lloyd (= 38 main list)
• At the rookie draft take up to 5 rookies from: Mohr, Fisher, Meline, Byrne, Owen-Auburn (Patfull on the books also)