Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion

[Funk]

Players that will likely have the spotlight on them next year to retain a spot on the list.

Possible retirees: Simpson & Walker if his knee says 'no more' = 2

Possible delistees: DVR, Rowe, Tutt, Whiley, Foster, Gowers, Dick, Armfield & Wood = 9 (not going to include any rookies just yet)

Out of contract: Buckley, Smith, Everitt, Casboult & Tuohy but these guys will stay or at worst some may be traded.

Looks like another 10 possible outs to me, for one reason or another.

Interesting Harks.

The player who has most disappointed me is Whiley.

I was hoping he would emulate Tyson/Caddy - but he has done nothing - he'll need to get wriggle along this year or his AFL career is over!!

 

[HARKER]

Interesting Harks.
The player who has most disappointed me is Whiley.
I was hoping he would emulate Tyson/Caddy - but he has done nothing - he'll need to get wriggle along this year or his AFL career is over!!

I like what Whiley brings but I'm not sure he's particularly confident.
He's a wonderful size for a mid and looks particularly fit right now..............but he has to make good, picking out the best option.

All too often this year he got caught trying to work things out on the run.
There's no time for procrastination . Get ball and move ball off quickly, or you will get caught......and he got caught.

 

[Dramoth]

I like what Whiley brings but I'm not sure he's particularly confident.
He's a wonderful size for a mid and looks particularly fit right now..............but he has to make good, picking out the best option.

All too often this year he got caught trying to work things out on the run.
There's no time for procrastination . Get ball and move ball off quickly, or you will get caught......and he got caught.

Hopefully with Bolts coming in and changing our mindsets, we can get him being proactive rather than reactive when things start going off.

 

[F_therest]

Interesting Harks.

The player who has most disappointed me is Whiley.

I was hoping he would emulate Tyson/Caddy - but he has done nothing - he'll need to get wriggle along this year or his AFL career is over!!

Not sure how you could ever hope for Whiley to emulate Tyson, who is a silky super talented player and former pick 2 or 3 iirc.
But was/am hoping he can be our Anthony Miles, who he has been constantly compared to...im hoping for a Jack Crisp like breakout year from him.

 

[F_therest]

I like what Whiley brings but I'm not sure he's particularly confident.
He's a wonderful size for a mid and looks particularly fit right now..............but he has to make good, picking out the best option.

All too often this year he got caught trying to work things out on the run.
There's no time for procrastination . Get ball and move ball off quickly, or you will get caught......and he got caught.

To be fair, most of the times we had the ball it looked like everything was made up as we went along and players had to constantly look around up field and backtrack etc...causing everything to take too long and be disjointed, which is due to poor coaching and teaching of a gameplan.

Hopefully this year with Boltons teaching, Whiley and all the boys will basically instinctively know where their team mates will be positioned, making it easier to make good decisions and make them faster, as Hawthorn do where they are all on the same page and its like clock work.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Players that will likely have the spotlight on them next year to retain a spot on the list.

Possible retirees: Simpson & Walker if his knee says 'no more' = 2

Possible delistees: DVR, Rowe, Tutt, Whiley, Foster, Gowers, Dick, Armfield & Wood = 9 (not going to include any rookies just yet)

Out of contract: Buckley, Smith, Everitt, Casboult & Tuohy but these guys will stay or at worst some may be traded.

Looks like another 10 possible outs to me, for one reason or another.

Looking at the numbers and knowing that we won't have the same draft picks as this year, and knowing that we are unlikely to bring in another 7 fringe players through trades, the cull will be interesting.

I can see all of the out of contract list you have there staying, with a slight question mark on Smith and his learning curve this year. Not so much games, just knuckling down to the task.

Two rookie upgrades next year, 4 draft selections, another delisted FA. That's 7 spots needed with 9 in your possible delistees or retirements (Gowers and Wood don't count as rookie listed players). I expect at least 1 of Simpson and Walker to go on, and I see 3 of the possible delistees standing up.

DVR and Gowers intrigue me. Impressed with the size Gowers has added and really hoping for DVR. Gowers can get a 3rd year on the rookie list if we cut one other rookie and elevate two.

At this stage, I'd be thinking Tutt, Whiley, Foster, Dick, Armfield, one of Simpson/Walker, then one of DVR/Rowe/Smith and early payout for Jones.

Those guys will have to come out of the starting blocks well. Rowe and Armfield can't afford to lose their senior spots. Tutt, Dick and Whiley need to play regular and consistent senior games. Jones needs to win back a senior spot. Walker and Simpson need to be in our top 10 players and avoid injury. DVR, Smith and Foster need to show they are too classy for the VFL.

 

[Funk]

Not sure how you could ever hope for Whiley to emulate Tyson, who is a silky super talented player and former pick 2 or 3 iirc.
But was/am hoping he can be our Anthony Miles, who he has been constantly compared to...im hoping for a Jack Crisp like breakout year from him.

Fair comment F - however he had a few very good games for GWS.

IIRC probably better than Tyson and Miles - hence my expectations and subsequent disappointment.

I also recall he started the year with an Achilles injury - and those little buggers take a long time to get better.

Certainly the entire team was devoid of confidence last year - hope he achieves his potential this year.

 

[1981]

It is interesting, when I map out a 26 Or Under side, we cover all 18 spots in a team (which is a relief!), and we also have depth in nearly all spots, though, only by about 1 player per position.

So, while I am happy we have already got about 22 odd players who genuinely have ability and/or potential, we certainly do lack depth, though this is to be expected.

 

[1981]

26 OR UNDER

B Buckley, Weitering, Plowman
HB Docherty, Jaksch, Tuohy

C Cuningham, Cripps, Boekhorst
FOLL Kreuzer, Gibbs, Kerridge

HF Lamb, Curnow, Sumner
F Everitt, Casboult, Silvagni


Back ups


Small/medium defender : Sheehan, Smith

Tall Defender : Dick (he plays tall IMO)

Onballer/midfielder : Graham

Ruck : Gorringe, Phillips

Tall Fwd : McKay

Tagger : Curnow

Small Fwd : Tutt, Wright, Gallucci


Wild Card : Byrne


There are others obviously but the above are the ones I rate the most at this stage.

 

[4thchicken]

I find the idea of trading Gibbs appealing, if we can get another top 5 pick, or say Tomlinson and GWS's first pick.
Gotta take a ruthless approach to list management now.

Way I see it, if players are no longer loyal to clubs, than it should be a two way street.

Also Gibbs isn't worth the coin he's (rumoured to be) earning, want us to clear the decks and try make a massive play for Jesse Hogan when he comes our of contact at the end of 2017.

Look at the age profile of the list - Gibbs is the wrong guy to trade - IF you are going to look at trading a big name, then murphy is the one. Why trade a 26 yo when you could trade a 28 yo?

Perhaps an engineered scenario of a disgruntled murphy leaving after a stellar year (disgruntled due to 'losing' captaincy).

In that scenario, trade week would look like
1. murphy -> top 10 pick + player (around 10)
2. everitt + mid 2nd round/3rd round -> GCS 1st round (around 10)
3. injury free kreuzer post-solid year -> 1st round pick (early teens)

Would give 4 X 1st round picks -> trade one for for a player (wines/o'meara as per rumours) but retain the other 3 picks (CFC 1st pick + pick 10 + teens pick)

 

[HARKER]

Look at the age profile of the list - Gibbs is the wrong guy to trade - IF you are going to look at trading a big name, then murphy is the one. Why trade a 26 yo when you could trade a 28 yo?

Perhaps an engineered scenario of a disgruntled murphy leaving after a stellar year (disgruntled due to 'losing' captaincy).

In that scenario, trade week would look like
1. murphy -> top 10 pick + player (around 10)
2. everitt + mid 2nd round/3rd round -> GCS 1st round (around 10)
3. injury free kreuzer post-solid year -> 1st round pick (early teens)

Would give 4 X 1st round picks -> trade one for for a player (wines/o'meara as per rumours) but retain the other 3 picks (CFC 1st pick + pick 10 + teens pick)

We don't know what will happen but if Gibbs does find himself as captain (unlikely, but far from impossible) then we'll have a pretty good idea of what may be on the cards.
Someone like Hawthorn would look at it very seriously as they know that nothing good lasts forever, so why not eke out every Premiership possible?
They'd find a way to get what's needed to get the deal done...............because they can.

 

[ferrisb]

I have a question about depth players, and by extension, the Northern blues.

It has been argued before that we could keep a couple of 'David ellard types' on the main list not just as depth but to provide valuable experience and leadership when playing in the seconds.

Why aren't we recruiting these types directly on the the NB list? Players like little Davey that despite their best efforts are not quite good enough to last in AFL but are impress at the lower level.

Should we have 4-5 ex-AFL players on the NB list? Would it help or hinder? Is salary cap an issue? Are these players better off financially plying their trade on WAFL / SANFL / local leagues?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I have a question about depth players, and by extension, the Northern blues.

It has been argued before that we could keep a couple of 'David ellard types' on the main list not just as depth but to provide valuable experience and leadership when playing in the seconds.

Why aren't we recruiting these types directly on the the NB list? Players like little Davey that despite their best efforts are not quite good enough to last in AFL but are impress at the lower level.

Should we have 4-5 ex-AFL players on the NB list? Would it help or hinder? Is salary cap an issue? Are these players better off financially plying their trade on WAFL / SANFL / local leagues?

Thinking the money isn't there to pay these guys, the Northern Blues aren't a great team to go to if you are seeking an avenue for AFL re-entry, and the success isn't there.

 

[Funk]

I have a question about depth players, and by extension, the Northern blues.

It has been argued before that we could keep a couple of 'David ellard types' on the main list not just as depth but to provide valuable experience and leadership when playing in the seconds.

Why aren't we recruiting these types directly on the the NB list? Players like little Davey that despite their best efforts are not quite good enough to last in AFL but are impress at the lower level.

Should we have 4-5 ex-AFL players on the NB list? Would it help or hinder? Is salary cap an issue? Are these players better off financially plying their trade on WAFL / SANFL / local leagues?

On the money here Ferris.

For CFC to be successful we also need (amongst many things!) a strong and consistent Bullants team.

We need the young guys to be playing in a well organised team with good game plan and culture.

This is an important part of developing our players - something we have been crappy at for years.

 

[JustaBattler]

The logic of having a top VFL Club aligned to you - is almost as compelling as taking it over and calling it Carlton VFL....but perhaps ODN is right when he says that maybe it is a question of money...

I wonder how much 'development' money is spent in wholly owned VFL CLubs - like Collingwood for example might contribute each year..for staff and facilities etc..I'd like the VFL coach to be a serious Club position..how many Northern Blues Coaches have made it to higher AFL appointment ?

 

[LordLucifer]

Look at the age profile of the list - Gibbs is the wrong guy to trade - IF you are going to look at trading a big name, then murphy is the one. Why trade a 26 yo when you could trade a 28 yo?

Bzzzt, wrong !!

For a start, neither of them will be traded this year so any movement would take place at the conclusion of the 2016 season.

By the time that the 2017 season kicks off, Gibbs will have turned 28yo but Murphy will only be 29yo.

 

[bad setanta]

You don't trade out you're Gibbs and Murphy's or you end up like Melbourne 6 years ago.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Bzzzt, wrong !!

For a start, neither of them will be traded this year so any movement would take place at the conclusion of the 2016 season.

By the time that the 2017 season kicks off, Gibbs will have turned 28yo but Murphy will only be 29yo.

There is 20 months between them which means they are closer to being 2 years apart than one. That part of the point wasn't wrong.

Personally, I think we need to see how many leaders stand up before we talk about trading more.

 

[LordLucifer]

You don't trade out you're Gibbs and Murphy's or you end up like Melbourne 6 years ago.

You trade out whoever you want, when you want, subject to the deal on offer !!

 

[LordLucifer]

There is 20 months between them which means they are closer to being 2 years apart than one. That part of the point wasn't wrong.

Personally, I think we need to see how many leaders stand up before we talk about trading more.

We have leaders ??

 

[4thchicken]

We don't know what will happen but if Gibbs does find himself as captain (unlikely, but far from impossible) then we'll have a pretty good idea of what may be on the cards.
Someone like Hawthorn would look at it very seriously as they know that nothing good lasts forever, so why not eke out every Premiership possible?
They'd find a way to get what's needed to get the deal done...............because they can.

hawks, north, richmond, swans - all possibilities.

Cant see gibbs as being captain - could readily see murphy not being captain though.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

We have leaders ??

Of course we do.

 

[4thchicken]

Bzzzt, wrong !!

For a start, neither of them will be traded this year so any movement would take place at the conclusion of the 2016 season.

By the time that the 2017 season kicks off, Gibbs will have turned 28yo but Murphy will only be 29yo.

of course any trade would be at the conclusion of the 2016 season. I'm familiar enough with the draft/trade period to know that - hence the statement that suggested 'an engineered scenario of a disgruntled murphy leaving after a stellar year (disgruntled due to 'losing' captaincy)'

and 20 months is closer to a 2 year age gap rather than 1.

 

[LordLucifer]

of course any trade would be at the conclusion of the 2016 season. I'm familiar enough with the draft/trade period to know that - hence the statement that suggested 'an engineered scenario of a disgruntled murphy leaving after a stellar year (disgruntled due to 'losing' captaincy)'

and 20 months is closer to a 2 year age gap rather than 1.

Why would we engineer a scenario like that ??

Your comment was "Why trade a 26 yo when you could trade a 28 yo?"

Gibbs will be just short of 28 when the next trade period opens.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Why would we engineer a scenario like that ??

Your comment was "Why trade a 26 yo when you could trade a 28 yo?"

Gibbs will be just short of 28 when the next trade period opens.

You can't be selective with these things.

If we are talking next year's trade period, Gibbs will be 5 months away from turning 28 and Murphy will be 3 months past turning 29. The almost 2 year age difference is going to be there whether you use the start of the season, the trade period or Passover. That particular point is irrefutable.

The only discussion is who is the better player for us and for how much longer.