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Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion

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Personally from what I've seen of Tomlinson - my own personal eye test - his potential is Lachie Henderson. Has the potential/quality to heavily impact a handful of games throughout his career and is a very handy player to have in your team but overall is not a game changer.

I just haven't seen enough of him to make a fair assessment either but given that SOS wasn't (apparently) keen on Henderson as a forward, because he wasn't of the imposing type, I wonder what the love for Tomlinson is?

Forward? Back? Wing? We must have had something in mind for him. Just wonder what that may be.
 
We all know that we just missed out on Tomlinson last year and that we're likely to be having another hit at him this year.

I understand the lure of his athletic profile but has Tomlinson ever shown more than potential, to date?
I may be wrong but I just don't recall him really taking any game apart. He's had some O.K. games but I don't recall many...if any...stand out games.

Loving that a few posters are continuing to look at our long term list profile Harks. Find myself constantly doing this too.
Tomlinson would be great to get on our list from the perspective that he can play key position at both ends. He is also athletic enough to play on a wing or pinch hit in the ruck.

The point you raise is valid though. Does not shape as a superstar, given that he is a workaholic type, it is hard to imagine he has much more development as a player.

The questions are:
Regarding cost - can we get him on our list without compromising our high draft picks?
Need - this season will/should tell us regarding
  • Plowman, can he get/stay on the park, and is he as good as we think/hope?
  • Glass-McCasker - can he show enough development to have us confident of his long term value?
  • Jaksch - does his "kick up the bum" fast track his development, and where does he play?
  • McKay - how quickly can he develop and command a best 22 spot?
  • Charlie Curnow - ditto McKay, and where is he best played?
  • Silvagni - ditto, will he grow a couple of cms to be a KPP
  • Foster - many have written him off, but still young. Development?
  • Casboult - can he be an effective front line KPF or is he a ruck/forward?
Walker and Everitt - role, form and fitness (particularly AW1), we need some experience to protect the boys.

If we can fast track a couple of boys, and Jammo and/or Rowe can be effective for two more years, we may not need a mature "bridging" KPP/swingman.

Interestingly the recent SEN interview had SOS suggesting we would use the draft and players in the 22-23 yo age bracket if they became available for trade. Surely free agency should not be ignored, it does not cost picks.
 
I just haven't seen enough of him to make a fair assessment either but given that SOS wasn't (apparently) keen on Henderson as a forward, because he wasn't of the imposing type, I wonder what the love for Tomlinson is?

Forward? Back? Wing? We must have had something in mind for him. Just wonder what that may be.

Perhaps the greatest "love" is that he can play a variety of positions. He would not become redundant in a couple of years if Harry, Charlie and Jack go past him and make our tall forward spots their own. Could move to a wing, 3rd tall defender etc.

Does this line of thought come from some "inside" info Harker? Are we ultra bullish on getting him?
 
Perhaps the greatest "love" is that he can play a variety of positions. He would not become redundant in a couple of years if Harry, Charlie and Jack go past him and make our tall forward spots their own. Could move to a wing, 3rd tall defender etc.

Does this line of thought come from some "inside" info Harker? Are we ultra bullish on getting him?

We all but had Tomlinson last year, without a doubt...........or at least with very little doubt, as parties can always play games.
The pick #11 was just about a done deal but as it panned out, we've got Curnow instead, which may not be such a bad result.

It doesn't always have to work this day but when one party lets another down, they may choose to be a little easier the next time around......although Graeme 'Gubby' Allen is no longer with the GWS. Anyway, things change so who knows whether we have a leg up in the next discussions with GWS, or not.
 

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Here ya go Lace_Out and anyone else interested: All of Sheehan's kicks from 2014.


I didn't go through the game in round 22 against Port Adelaide because he only had three kicks (came on as sub after Murphy knocked himself out if I recall correctly) and we lost by over 100 points. I ain't watching that shit again...

Overall, I'd say he is an excellent kick. There are a couple of times he was either caught with the ball or rushed, but that's not his kicking, it's a game sense thing which comes with experience. A key thing that stood out to me is that he seems to take the best option almost every time, even if it's a long kick down the line. The other is that in two games when we were trying to steal a win at the death, he stepped in and took responsibility for the kick forward to hit a target. One paid off, the other he just missed.
 
Ok, time to dump more of my time onto this forum...

The Season's Eve Player Review!

1. Andrew Walker
Strengths: Experience, Athleticism, Flexibility
Weaknesses: Patchy Form, Injury concerns

Walks hasn't really got started this pre-season, but you'd hope he rocks up for show time Round 1. When on form a seriously difficult player to handle. Looks like he is starting to feel the years

2. Jack Silvagni
Strengths: Game sense, Marking
Weaknesses: Light frame, Inexperience

SOSOS starts 2016 with an encouraging showing against Essendon but not much else to go off. Will see a lot of VFL this season, but has that real nous to make the step before his body is fully ready.

3. Marc Murphy
Strengths: Class, Goal sense, Ball magnet
Weaknesses: Some Injury Concerns, Needs Support to Dominate

The captain cops a lot of flak over his leadership, and while I wouldn't say he has the aura that some have, I don't think he's completely bereft. Besides that he is an elite midfielders who has had some up and down form, but I would expect him to return to dominance with a strong support unit.

4. Bryce Gibbs
Strengths: Skills, Clearances, Tackling (no really, look at the stats)
Weaknesses: Hands Below his Feet, Consistency

Two years ago Gibbs took out the John Nicholls and looked like he was ready for the next step. But 2015 was a let down. If Gibbs can find a real consistency through the year he could kick his performance up a gear.

6. Kade Simpson
Strengths: Calm, tough, leader
Weaknesses: Right foot, Contested Marking

Kade is my long term favourite player, and a legend of this football club in my opinion. His work in the back half last year was consistent and polished. The question is how far Father Time is behind him. Wiry footballers who use their wits are known to have excellent durability, so I will back him in to maintain form.

7. Dylan Buckley
Strengths: Energy, aggression, long kicking
Weaknesses: Composure, Sticking to the Game Plan

DylBucks hasn't set the world alight in the pre-season IMO, but he is a good enough player, whose dedication and perseverance will carry him a far way. I don't think his ceiling is too far above what he has already achieved honestly, but if he can be a good AFL player, I think that's a win.

8. Matthew Kreuzer
Strengths: 1%ers, Tackling, Contested Work
Weaknesses: Contested Marking, Hitouts to Advantage

MK has looked his normal bullocking self in the pre-season and I expect that to continue. He's not ever going to dominate aerial contests, but his ground work and size make him a real handful for opponents and I think he has a real value as an AFL player.

9. Patrick Cripps
Strengths: Clearances, Size, Extremely Difficult to Tag
Weaknesses: Foot Skills, Goal-Kicking

Cripps is a force of nature at stoppages, and even more frightening at centre bounces. His clearance work, combined with his efforts to get around the ground and stay involved in play make him a real A+ talent. If his kicking and shots at goal tick up a notch I think he will be considered elite by seasons end.

10. Harry McKay
Strengths: Athleticism, Ground Work
Weaknesses: Experience, Consistency

Hmac's big knock in his TAC Cup performances was that he only got about 10 touches at most. He'll need to put work into running and making repeat efforts as well as reading the play to improve this. Despite that his brief showing against Essendon made me feel confident he has the aptitude. Development year.

11. Sam Kerridge
Strengths: Endurance, Goal Sense, Physicality
Weaknesses: Polish, Speed

I am pretty bullish, as most Carlton fans are, about Kerridge's prospects. He's got a real flair in his play, despite being for the most part a consistent contributor with a huge tank. I think he's an early bet for the John Nicholls.

12. Blaine Boekhorst
Strengths: Speed, Agility, Penetrating Kicks
Weaknesses: Consistency,

I tried to think of anything else about BB's game that could use work, but honestly, all he needs is to consistently hold his form and he'll be a dynamite player. Outside runners will always fluctuate depending on the quality of the ball they receive, but hopefully Blaine can come into his own this year.

13. Jed Lamb
Strengths: Speed, Tackling, Endurance
Weaknesses: Goal Production, Skills

I am hopeful about Jed, his draft year depicted him as a livewire forward, but since joining Carlton I haven't really seen him as dangerous around goals. Hopefully this comes along with some improvement around his skills around the ground.

14. Liam Jones
Strengths: Explosiveness
Weaknesses: AFL-level Production

Jones is a solid performer at VFL level, but for whatever reason he struggles to have the same sort of impact at AFL. Perhaps his physical advantages are greater at VFL level where he dominates through these, or perhaps it is mental. Needs some very strong form to break seniors.

15. Sam Docherty
Strengths: Run and Carry, Effective Ball use, Game Sense
Weaknesses: Kicking Consistency

Docherty's 2015 was very good at times, and he is definitely capable at AFL level but he struggled with injury and form. Most notable was his tendency to go at a high disposal efficiency for a game, but to still have a "howler" every now and then. Work that out and he should be a very successful player.

16. Dillon Viojo-Rainbow
Strengths: Precision Kicking
Weaknesses: Endurance, Contested Work

I was encouraged to hear that DVR's VFL game involved better running and effort from Skittles. His kicking, when he is in form, is venomous, so if he can overcome his endurance limitiations, and become a more physical player he might still have a role at Carlton.

17. Sam Rowe
Strengths: Wrestling, Close-Checking
Weaknesses: Lead Coverage, Composure

He's a big, competitive defender who will go toe-to-toe in a grapple with the best in the league. Struggles covering leads and is prone to brain fades both in marking and disposal.

18. Kristian Jaksch
Strengths: Marking, Long Kicking
Weaknesses: Light Frame, Consistency

KJ has some really nice hands at full stretch, but he hasn't really shown much at Carlton. In part his body type restricts his viability as a key forward. A strong year in the VFL and a step-up to AFL would be ideal.

19. Liam Sumner
Strengths: Speed, Foot Skills
Weaknesses: Injury Concerns

Sumner could really be an exceptional AFL player, he just keeps getting injured. If he can get back on the park consistently I think he might break the 22 midway through the year.

20. Lachie Plowman
Strengths: Game Sense, Ball Movement
Weaknesses: Defensive Accountability, Injury Concerns

I like the attacking side of Plowman, but I query his defensive nous. I have seen little of his highlights which suggest a dominant KPP so much as a tall and powerful flanker. This could be fine, but I would like to see more of Lachie to gauge where he is at.

21. Ciaran Sheehan
Strengths: Kicking, Athleticism
Weaknesses: Game Sense, Injury Concerns

Still recovering from injury is a familiar phenomenon for Ciaran. Needs a good run with injury and then form to make a break for the seniors.

22. Jason Tutt
Strengths: Endurance, Pressure
Weaknesses: Disposal, Game Sense

Tutt is a real goer, who puts himself into trouble and makes a meal of things he could easily do. The contrast between his efforts and the results is disheartening. If he could bring more composure into his game, get his disposal under wraps he could still be a good AFL player.

23. Jacob Weitering
Strengths: Intercept Marking, Composure,
Weaknesses: Inexperience

He looks great. I could only imagine that his inexperience might affect him, but I see no evidence it will. Too early to call 2016 AA? :p

24. Mark Whiley
Strengths: Contested Work, Tackling
Weaknesses: Composure

He wins the ball, gets to the contest and has the physical attributes... he just hurries himself and gets into trouble. If he could iron out that little bit of panic then he could be a good foot soldier.

25. Clem Smith
Strengths: Speed, Toughness
Weaknesses: Consistency, Ball Winning

He has a real flash about him but neither wins the ball often enough, nor finishes his good work. If he can sort out what he is doing once he gets the ball, and lets himself a few more seconds to sum up things he will be a much better player.

26. Jayden Foster
Strengths: Marking, Goal Kicking
Weaknesses: Consistency, Game Sense

Foster didn't make many waves last year, hasn't made much during this pre-season and would want to get a go about it. He lead the TAC goalkicking in his draft year and has an opportunity to make headway in the VFL where Jones is likely to attract the oppositions primary KPD.

27. Dennis Armfield
Strengths: Speed, Persistence
Weaknesses: Disposal, Accumulation

Armfield is a goer, always has been, but he is also a fringe player with the wrong age profile with no pre-season. I hope he has cracking form in the twos and pushes into the senior side, but I don't see it.

28. David Cuningham
Strengths: Breakaway Speed, Contested Work
Weaknesses: Accumulation

Cuningham's bubble burst after he got super hyped in training reports and didn't lay a hand on it during he Essendon game. His time will come, and I wouldn't be too surprised with a senior appearance, but this is a development year.

29. Billy Gowers
Strengths: Good Size, Effective User
Weaknesses: Accumulation, Speed

The talk of the preseason surrounding Gowers has been about his size, and his work on the inside as an enforcer type. We haven't seen any of him in the NAB makes me think he'll be depth.

30. Charlie Curnow
Strengths: Marking, Endurance
Weaknesses: Disposal, Game Sense

2nd to Weitering in terms of draftees likely to make an immediate impact. He's a man-child who will be a handful for AFL defenders if he gets a go. A little worried about his disposal from what I have seen, it can be effective, but like his brother, ugly.

31. Matthew Dick
Strengths: Good Size, Defensive Accountability
Weaknesses: Brain Fades, Disposal

Dick's the sort who does the right thing, wins the ball and burns it. I can't help but be down on him. If he could get his ball use right he'd be an AFL defender IMO, his man checking is good and he has a good general pressure game.

32. Nick Graham
Strengths: Defensive pressure, Ball Magnet, Disposal
Weaknesses: Speed

Graham's been a forum darling for a couple of years now because his work in the VFL was so good. Tragically used as a sub on too many ocassions, his best work is as a full-time mid, where I think he will prove himself more than up to scratch.

33. Andrejs Everitt
Strengths:Flexible, Endurance, Marking
Weaknesses: Consistency

Dre is a good player, whose had a quiet pre-season, dampening expectations. He won the goal-kicking and kept primarily forward I wouldn't be surprised if he put together a similiar year on the scoreboard

34. Andrew Phillips
Strengths: Aerial Competition, Work Rate
Weaknesses: Marking, Hitouts to Advantage

Phillips is for me kind of a Kreuzer lite. He is better in the air, much worse on the ground. His chief attribute aerially is how he kills the contest or keeps the ball forward, an underrated aspect of flying for a contest. 2nd fiddle for sure in my view

35. Ed Curnow
Strengths: Work rate, Defensive Accountability, Ball Magnet
Weaknesses: Disposal, Speed

Ed is a known quantity. He does the same thing out there, nullifying opponents, collecting the pill and generally giving his all. If he used it better he would be known as a dangerous player in his own right, as Carrazzo was, but I don't think we'll see much more improvement

36. Cameron Wood
Strengths: Competes, Aggression
Weaknesses: Game sense, Disposal, Skills Below his Knees

Wood's looked pretty lacklustre this pre-season and is likely to continue to look so. He is what he is, a real fighter, but he lacks much of the required skillset to accomplish much more at AFL level

37. Daniel Gorringe
Strengths: Athleticism
Weaknesses: Game Sense, Marking, Disposal, Accumulation

Simply doesn't make an impact. Has been trialled, hasn't done much. Athlete more than a footballer IMO.

38. Ciaran Byrne
Strengths: Kicking, Speed
Weaknesses: Game Sense

Still adjusting to the sort of pace and awareness required at the top echelon. I think Byrne will make it, but I am not sure if he will be as good as Tuohy, if nothing else for a lack of the same durability.

39. Dale Thomas
Strengths: Pressure, Speed
Weaknesses: Long Kicking, Hairstyle, Former Pie, Injury Concerns

Daisy can play at a high level, and he was decent against Hawthorn. If he can find a vein of form and draw upon the wily instincts that a veteran like him should have, he can be a contributor, although my estimation of impact has declined since the start of preseason.

40. Michael Jamison
Strengths: Close Checking, Experience
Weaknesses: Injury, Optimistic Disposal

Jamo's biggest limitations are his recovery from injury and his tendency to sometimes go a bit too pinpoint on passes and grass them when they didn't need it. If he can get fit he should be good protection while the next generation develop.

41. Levi Casboult
Strengths: Marking, Ruckwork
Weaknesses: Leading, Below his Knees

Casbah takes big grabs, we all know it. He's also a decent hand in the ruck. His weaknesses is in getting separation from opponents and making effective space to avoid being mobbed. If he and the forwards can better arrange the forward line to give him more chances one on one, he'll be a better forward.

42. Zach Tuohy
Strengths: Kicking, Shot at goal, Defensive Coverage
Weaknesses: Zoning

Zach leaves his man a bit too much for my liking, trying to zone. He isn't a big intercept marker, but he often seems to have given a step he didn't need to against his man. Besides this he is an A-grade defender.

43. Simon White
Strengths: Marking, Aggression
Weaknesses: Disposal

White's a journeyman, who has made the most out of what he has to bring to the team. He could be top 8 depth or bottom 4 depth, but he is depth. He is undersized to be a KPP and not quite dominant enough to be an effective flanker better defending.

45. Andrew Gallucci
Strengths: Aggression, Speed, Agility
Weaknesses: Inexperience

I am very interested to see how Gallucci goes. Has a real Puopolo look to how he moves and plays but isn't as stocky. Might not make the grade in the end, but I am a fan.

46. Matthew Wright
Strengths: Flexible, Goal Sense, Pressure
Weaknesses: Consistency

Wasn't sure what to put down in weaknesses for Wright, he seems decent, just not necessarily mind-blowing. No real blaring holes, except that his time at Adelaide involved a clear decline in form.

47. Jesse Glass-McCasker
Strengths: Size, Close Checking
Weaknesses: Disposal, Inexperience

New player who is probably a bit closer to athlete than footballer but has a real combativeness to him and his defensive work. His disposal looked shonky in his draft year, but plenty of time to improve that.

48. Matthew Korcheck
Strengths: Immense Size, Athleticism
Weaknesses: Game Sense

Korcheck has a long road ahead to get to AFL standard. Mostly he needs to figure out what is going on and how he can affect things. His size and power will make getting confidence at VFL level easier after a few runs. Development year
As far as I am concerned, consistency and game sense comes with experience and game time... along with the inexperience bit.

A lot of the issues our guys have are related to a substandard development program we have had for years. Changing coaches a lot hasn't helped with that. However, I think that having Bolts in charge might change that. We might end up using most of our list this year regardless of whether they are injured or not. After all, this year (and next) is all about development.
 
I would have thought 3 of that list in gorringe who is a Ruckman has no idea in key posi or as a linkman foster and Jones are nowhere near getting a game and if so where in real trouble and McKay is out for 12 weeks . The sooner the likes of curnow glass/mccasker and mckay come on the better .
Gorringe was certainly drafted by GC as a ruckman, but he's shown himself to be wanting in the position despite some exciting athleticism.

At 200 cms, 97ish kilos and with fantastic athleticism at ground level as well as clean hands and clean disposal, they just need to train him how to be a forward, and how not to be nervous about his set shots. If they can do that, imagine a forward who can do this 10 times a game and kick 3 goals:



He's already shown in his time with us that the skills and running on show there aren't a fluke, he's just used to running from midfield into 50 instead of the other way around (and back).
 
Gorringe has terrific attributes and regardless of his high selection (pick #10 and one pick ahead of Tom Lynch) he was cleared by GC and no-one really cared to pick him up. There are warning signs in that alone.

He just doesn't seem to want to get engaged in the game. A 200cm player should have some presence but for now, unfortunately he has little.
 
Gorringe has terrific attributes and regardless of his high selection (pick #10 and one pick ahead of Tom Lynch) he was cleared by GC and no-one really cared to pick him up. There are warning signs in that alone.

He just doesn't seem to want to get engaged in the game. A 200cm player should have some presence but for now, unfortunately he has little.
As a ruck, or a ruck/forward I understand why he was overlooked. We're in a position to invest some time in training him into a forward/ruck, where he could excel.

The separation of Everitt with the height of Casboult? He could be huge for us if they work with him in the VFL.
 
As a ruck, or a ruck/forward I understand why he was overlooked. We're in a position to invest some time in training him into a forward/ruck, where he could excel.

The separation of Everitt with the height of Casboult? He could be huge for us if they work with him in the VFL.

He could. I just haven't seen anything to date that says he will...........neither did GC........nor another 16 teams........but he could.
Would still sooner see him trialed as a back-man..........and give him some angry pills while we're at it.

SOS loves his Key Forwards and it's not as though we not desperately in need of at least one. Will be high on the 2016 agenda.
 
Foster and Rowe are likely gone at the end of the season, and they'll be looking to push Jones out as cheaply and quickly as possible. Jaksch will be deployed in defence most likely (as will Foster if he stays).

With Everitt and Casboult out of contract and one likely to be traded off for best value, the senior forward depth isn't as rusted on as you think.
 
my feel is g-mac will be upgraded for next year. byrne as well. not sure what's happening with sheehan but i rate him.
early days but i reckon jones thomas dick dvr armfield walker rowe tutt everitt (all for different reasons) that will be under pressure come years end. we need to keep turning list over and sos will look to bring in another 6-8 new faces.
 
Gorringe in my opinion has to be given the everitt treatment.
Wb were always trying to make him into a kkp either fwd or back, sydney basically took him for nothing started him on the hbf them moved him to the wing.
When we got him he played as a midfielder who could go fwd he's now a lil older 27 this year he knows his body and is now starting to use it.

We should start gorringe on the wing and throw him fwd during matches. I think he'd be an impossible match up on the wing.
 

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my feel is g-mac will be upgraded for next year. byrne as well. not sure what's happening with sheehan but i rate him.
early days but i reckon jones thomas dick dvr armfield walker rowe tutt everitt (all for different reasons) that will be under pressure come years end. we need to keep turning list over and sos will look to bring in another 6-8 new faces.

I like the look of gmac for some reason my gut says he's gonna make it but..... He may have to sit on the rookie list for 3 yrs which isn't a bad thing.
 
Here ya go Lace_Out and anyone else interested: All of Sheehan's kicks from 2014.


I didn't go through the game in round 22 against Port Adelaide because he only had three kicks (came on as sub after Murphy knocked himself out if I recall correctly) and we lost by over 100 points. I ain't watching that shit again...

Overall, I'd say he is an excellent kick. There are a couple of times he was either caught with the ball or rushed, but that's not his kicking, it's a game sense thing which comes with experience. A key thing that stood out to me is that he seems to take the best option almost every time, even if it's a long kick down the line. The other is that in two games when we were trying to steal a win at the death, he stepped in and took responsibility for the kick forward to hit a target. One paid off, the other he just missed.

Oh gawd, that game. I will forever associate you with heartbreak and misery.
 
Gorringe in my opinion has to be given the everitt treatment.
Wb were always trying to make him into a kkp either fwd or back, sydney basically took him for nothing started him on the hbf them moved him to the wing.
When we got him he played as a midfielder who could go fwd he's now a lil older 27 this year he knows his body and is now starting to use it.

We should start gorringe on the wing and throw him fwd during matches. I think he'd be an impossible match up on the wing.
Your not suggesting he could be as good as Blicavs are you ?
 
If I was to guess at say 6-7 list changes, before the season begins.

Would most likely be out of Armfield, DVR, Simpson (Retire), Rowe, Foster, Dick, White and Tutt

Sigh. I like the look of dick.
Not saying he deserves a list spot but he does have some good sigh attributes.
 

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