Analysis 2016 List Management Discussion

[Chalky Blues]

if we had got tomlinson last trade period he was gone. last players sigend and given a one year deal. why would it be any different this year? right or wrong that was the clubs thinking and i cannot see it changing. we are rebuidling and lots of players will be moved on

C'mon Soapy, don't use logical truthful facts to shoot my comments down

 

[Soapy V]

C'mon Soapy, don't use logical truthful facts to shoot my comments down

i like armfield but reading between the lines i think he will be gone. he's playing like its his last year. the club will make another 10-12 changes at the end of the year. both sos & bolton have said in the last few weeks the list has a long way to go. be nice to keep them all but the system means we need to make tough decisions to be a top side again. in two years we wont recognise the list

 

[Chalky Blues]

i like armfield but reading between the lines i think he will be gone. he's playing like its his last year. the club will make another 10-12 changes at the end of the year. both sos & bolton have said in the last few weeks the list has a long way to go. be nice to keep them all but the system means we need to make tough decisions to be a top side again. in two years we wont recognise the list

Maybe your right but i think 10-12 more changes is a couple to many but I guess we'll just have to see what SOS thinks is best for the club

 

[Soapy V]

Maybe your right but i think 10-12 more changes is a couple to many but I guess we'll just have to see what SOS thinks is best for the club

agree. i am happy with what ever they do. i have no doubt they are on the right track. my comments are based on what i think they will do based on their comments. everything they have said since the end of the last year says big changes to me. a 66 game rebuild turning over around 25-30 players says a lot is still to happen

 

[Iamcarlton]

Cameron or Hogan would be very easy to understand. Boyd is a long way from a sure bet as a future elite KPF. Only very fleeting glimpses so far.

Yep, I think people are getting seduced a little by the forner number 1 pick tag.
He may well become a quality kpf but to date he's close to the highest paid player in he comp having done sfa.
The desire to recruit him is a little confusing tbh.

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Fair chance he'll be taking a Tom scully style pay cut at the end of his current contract . Cannot understand why any Carlton person would want him on our list . Phillips has had as big of an impact on a game this year as Boyd for fifth of the cost . And I don't subscribe to the he's young he'll be quality in a few years . But good luck to the doggies .

 

[HARKER]

GIANTS NEAFL:

Goal Kickers: R. Palmer 4, J. Stewart 3, L. Gray 2, L. Redfern 2, A. Tomlinson 2, J. Steele 2, M. Flynn, J. Finlayson, M. Walker, D. Simpson, P. McKenna
Best Players: R. Palmer, J. Steele, M. Flynn, H. Himmelberg, P. McKenna, A. Tomlinson
Out with injury: Marchbank

Just going to do a little weekly look into the GWS4 Mk II

 

[gandaal]

Tom Boyd has the natural talent to be a dominant player. He is into his what - second year? Dud already? Please...

I've seen 17 year old kids called duds on these forums before they've even got drafted. Where's the imaginary point where people are allowed to point out that a player isn't performing to expectations?

Is he a dud by normal AFL standards? Probably not.

Is he a dud by pick 1, paid a million dollars a year, trading your captain/best player and pick 3 for him standards? Certainly.

Tom Boyd is a perfect example of the AFL recruiting obsessions blinding recruiters from reality. Not long ago there was an obsession with athletes over footballers. Currently the obsession is with turning 200 cm kids who probably should be playing ruck into key forward monsters. They do monster kids in the under 18s because they're so big and tall but get shown up again and again at AFL level. They're have been plenty of others in the same situation. We've got one in Harry McKay that we picked up with a top 10 pick. Some will make it but not all, and rarely to the standard you'd expect from a top selection. The best KPFs are generally around 192 to 195 cm tall. They have the speed and mobility to keep up with the modern game at that size.

So yes I'm calling Boyd a dud because he was unlikely to ever be that good.

 

[Blue87]

GIANTS NEAFL:

Goal Kickers: R. Palmer 4, J. Stewart 3, L. Gray 2, L. Redfern 2, A. Tomlinson 2, J. Steele 2, M. Flynn, J. Finlayson, M. Walker, D. Simpson, P. McKenna
Best Players: R. Palmer, J. Steele, M. Flynn, H. Himmelberg, P. McKenna, A. Tomlinson
Out with injury: Marchbank

Just going to do a little weekly look into the GWS4 Mk II

7 goals between the three of them......not bad

 

[HARKER]

if we had got tomlinson last trade period he was gone. last player signed and given a one year deal. why would it be any different this year? right or wrong that was the clubs thinking and i cannot see it changing. we are rebuidling and lots of players will be moved on

Are you stating that as a fact? If we had have got Tomlinson, we wouldn't have Harry Mckay may be closer to the fact.
We may have taken another pick in the ND though and if that was going to be the case it would have been the pick after Silvagni.....possibly Crocker.

 

[ferrisb]

GIANTS NEAFL:

Goal Kickers: R. Palmer 4, J. Stewart 3, L. Gray 2, L. Redfern 2, A. Tomlinson 2, J. Steele 2, M. Flynn, J. Finlayson, M. Walker, D. Simpson, P. McKenna
Best Players: R. Palmer, J. Steele, M. Flynn, H. Himmelberg, P. McKenna, A. Tomlinson
Out with injury: Marchbank

Just going to do a little weekly look into the GWS4 Mk II

Great idea, harks!

I would caution people against getting too carried away with neafl performances though.

Jed lamb kicked 43 goals in 17 neafl matches last year. At AFL level, hed probably kick 20 (maybe 25) from 17 games.

Tomlinson is 3rd in the neafl player of the year count this year, but remember Richard tambling won the award last year.

Consistently good performances will be meaningful, but don't read too much into individual games (especially blowouts ) as some of the sides are woeful.... i mean jed lamb kicked 8 goals in a match against the swans seconds. ..

 

[gandaal]

7 goals between the three of them......not bad

It's NEAFL so unfortunately I wouldn't read a huge amount into it. At that level Foster would be a 100 goal Full Forward.

 

[Dramoth]

Are you stating that as a fact? If we had have got Tomlinson, we wouldn't have Harry Mckay may be closer to the fact.
We may have taken another pick in the ND though and if that was going to be the case it would have been the pick after Silvagni.....possibly Crocker.

I think you'll find we probably wouldn't have gotten C. Curnow if we had gotten Tomlinson.

 

[HARKER]

I think you'll find we probably wouldn't have gotten C. Curnow if we had gotten Tomlinson.

I've heard both but tending to lean towards us having had a keener eye for CCurnow.
We had to get McKay before Adelaide, who also wanted him and hence the earlier selection. Not 100% though.

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

if we had got tomlinson last trade period he was gone. last player signed and given a one year deal. why would it be any different this year? right or wrong that was the clubs thinking and i cannot see it changing. we are rebuidling and lots of players will be moved on

Sure but you can't deny his form this year has markedly improved. Different decision now.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

No way de-list, well only if he was to be de-listed then rookie listed like Heath Scotland was a few years ago.

I think that re-rookieing rule is so ridiculous.

 

[ShanDog]

I've seen 17 year old kids called duds on these forums before they've even got drafted. Where's the imaginary point where people are allowed to point out that a player isn't performing to expectations?

Is he a dud by normal AFL standards? Probably not.

Is he a dud by pick 1, paid a million dollars a year, trading your captain/best player and pick 3 for him standards? Certainly.

Tom Boyd is a perfect example of the AFL recruiting obsessions blinding recruiters from reality. Not long ago there was an obsession with athletes over footballers. Currently the obsession is with turning 200 cm kids who probably should be playing ruck into key forward monsters. They do monster kids in the under 18s because they're so big and tall but get shown up again and again at AFL level. They're have been plenty of others in the same situation. We've got one in Harry McKay that we picked up with a top 10 pick. Some will make it but not all, and rarely to the standard you'd expect from a top selection. The best KPFs are generally around 192 to 195 cm tall. They have the speed and mobility to keep up with the modern game at that size.

So yes I'm calling Boyd a dud because he was unlikely to ever be that good.

I agree with your description of modern forwards.

With regard to 'not playing to expectations', this is the thing I'm saying people jump the gun on. People's expectations are rarely realistic. This includes Boyd IMO.

 

[DangerousD]

Here is the link for my previous post on who is out of contract at the Blues.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-06-02/unsigned-blues-face-nervous-wait-on-futures

 

[bad setanta]

Should we look to putting Smith on the rookie list, give him another 12 months or 2 years to prove himself?

 

[bad setanta]

Time to pull the trigger on Tutt and Whiley. I'd like to see DVR keep his spot on the list though.

 

[therubbernub]

I've seen 17 year old kids called duds on these forums before they've even got drafted. Where's the imaginary point where people are allowed to point out that a player isn't performing to expectations?

Is he a dud by normal AFL standards? Probably not.

Is he a dud by pick 1, paid a million dollars a year, trading your captain/best player and pick 3 for him standards? Certainly.

Tom Boyd is a perfect example of the AFL recruiting obsessions blinding recruiters from reality. Not long ago there was an obsession with athletes over footballers. Currently the obsession is with turning 200 cm kids who probably should be playing ruck into key forward monsters. They do monster kids in the under 18s because they're so big and tall but get shown up again and again at AFL level. They're have been plenty of others in the same situation. We've got one in Harry McKay that we picked up with a top 10 pick. Some will make it but not all, and rarely to the standard you'd expect from a top selection. The best KPFs are generally around 192 to 195 cm tall. They have the speed and mobility to keep up with the modern game at that size.

So yes I'm calling Boyd a dud because he was unlikely to ever be that good.

Boyd always seemed a bit soft to me. I think you must have aggression at the ball to succeed as a tall in afl. Height is just not enough. Footy smarts can be taught by the right coach. Our harry seems to have the aggression. That why i like him

 

[Dramoth]

Should we look to putting Smith on the rookie list, give him another 12 months or 2 years to prove himself?

He got badly distracted last year by a former member of the squad from the rumours floating about. This year is about readjustment for him. IF he can show that he has pulled it all together in the VFL, we might give him another year in the senior squad... I don't think that we are going to waste a rookie spot by delisting him and picking him up again. We could have done that with Holman... who I've heard had serious issues.

 

[therubbernub]

I've heard both but tending to lean towards us having had a keener eye for CCurnow.
We had to get McKay before Adelaide, who also wanted him and hence the earlier selection. Not 100% though.

How many key forwards do they want? Or maybe they just rated him very highly.

 

[Aphrodite]

Why is Boyd being discussed!

 

[Dramoth]

Dunno... someone suggested that we might go after him as he is being kept out of the doggies team by Peacock.

 

[LordLucifer]

Time to pull the trigger on Tutt and Whiley. I'd like to see DVR keep his spot on the list though.

Get rid of all three.