List Mgmt. 2017 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[Aussie18]

My view would be that Brander should have been the standout first selection for GWS in the 2017 draft, unless he absolutely crashed in the recruiters' opinion (such as Sproule did in 2016). We need to start looking to the next KPF after Jezza and the General - in a normal environment (i.e. not GWS 2012-215), it will take them several years to develop to first grade standard. While GWS would have naturally wanted Charlie Spargo also (and especially if Dev Smith were to leave), I should think that there are other small forward options such that he would have been the second priority.

This decision certainly changes how GWS approaches the draft this year and in future. Limiting us to one academy selection even if we have more first round picks is dumb in my opinion (fair enough if we only start with a single first round selection), and is an unnecessary constraint to drafting NSW/ACT talent when other constraints could have been applied. In some years we might be better to completely ignore local talent to go for 'best available' across the whole draft.

We will have to see how the academy crop develops throughout this year for the 2017 draft. With Brander & Spargo out, the other known/rated Giants Academy kids thus far include Jack Powell (Canberra, so he should stay in - a small midfielder/forward), Nathan Richards (Griffith - have to see if that's in or out but hopefully it's far enough north to remain in - ruck/forward) & Alex Paech (Walla Walla - have to see if that's in or out - a KP prospect). Hopefully some other options show some worth, but given the 1000 point draft penalty, we might actually take somewhat of a back seat in the draft and just try to retain our current guys. Suspect Powell, Richards & Paech are no higher than second round picks but obviously we'll have to see how everyone goes throughout 2017.

Do these players still play for GWS in next weeks Div 2 or are they cut?

 

[_GT_]

It is all rumour, but to entertain the bit about him not being happy with the club: What could he be legitimately be unhappy about? He was the source of his own trouble here. Goes on a bender with mates. Two of our staff gave him a poor steer, ok we know that. Then tells lies to girlfriend/ex girlfriend. Club then gets notified of situation and appears to do what it can for player, club and AFL. Has the support for him whilst on suspension been inadequate? I guess all will be revealed as he rejoins the playing group to train and how he goes about settling back into club life. One pointer you can look at is how he responded on field while this was all hanging over him and the club. Great finals campaign for example.

 

[Raymann]

Lachie is a Giant for as long as the club desires. Only way it happens is if the club needed to make room in the cap to sign Kelly etc.
Can confirm the saints have always been kéen on Lachie.

 

[Giant Strides]

Do these players still play for GWS in next weeks Div 2 or are they cut?

Well, from the tone of the news reports they are excluded from the GWS academy immediately. While there has been no confirmation, I presume that means they will not play for GWS Academy versus Swans Academy. The same would be the case for any other Albury-resident or other 'excluded-areas' GWS academites - the obvious problem being that the AFL hasn't actually decided what other areas are in and out of the GWS Academy! However, I presume that any NSW address remains valid, so they would still play for the NSW/ACT & Allies teams in the Div 2 & Div 1 championships. Brander & Spargo have enough body of work to remain in selection, but the exclusion of others would inevitably hurt their chances. A bit of a mess (the AFL specialty)!

EDIT: However, the squads have already been named so I guess it's possible that GWS will just play them anyway on the grounds that it's too late to change. It might depend on how many of the squad are actually excluded. http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/GWSGiants/Images/news images/U18 SENIOR ACADEMY SQUAD.pdf

 

[dlanod]

I don't have any inside mail but Lachie always struck me as one of the complete buy-in folks, similar to Patton.

 

[Matchu]

Does anyone know where the new GWS academy zone border is with these changes? For example, is Wagga Wagga still a part of the Giants' academy zone?

 

[Determinant]

Does anyone know where the new GWS academy zone border is with these changes? For example, is Wagga Wagga still a part of the Giants' academy zone?

I believe we are somewhat hopeful of retaining Picton

At this stage there are a bunch of media outlets bleating facts without any official sanction so appears to be leaked info only, hopefully we know very shortly what it really means.

I don't have any issue with reducing the access GWS has had via academy but the AFL need to be careful they don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Comments attributed to Spargo's parents seem to show they are bewildered by it and that pathways the academy has afforded, along with access to elite coaching from a very young age will be lost.

 

[Giant Strides]

Does anyone know where the new GWS academy zone border is with these changes? For example, is Wagga Wagga still a part of the Giants' academy zone?

No, no-one as far as I know (including the club) knows for sure yet as the AFL hasn't revealed the full story. (Taken from various news reports.)

 

[Aussie18]

My view would be that Brander should have been the standout first selection for GWS in the 2017 draft, unless he absolutely crashed in the recruiters' opinion (such as Sproule did in 2016). We need to start looking to the next KPF after Jezza and the General - in a normal environment (i.e. not GWS 2012-215), it will take them several years to develop to first grade standard. While GWS would have naturally wanted Charlie Spargo also (and especially if Dev Smith were to leave), I should think that there are other small forward options such that he would have been the second priority.

This decision certainly changes how GWS approaches the draft this year and in future. Limiting us to one academy selection even if we have more first round picks is dumb in my opinion (fair enough if we only start with a single first round selection), and is an unnecessary constraint to drafting NSW/ACT talent when other constraints could have been applied. In some years we might be better to completely ignore local talent to go for 'best available' across the whole draft.

We will have to see how the academy crop develops throughout this year for the 2017 draft. With Brander & Spargo out, the other known/rated Giants Academy kids thus far include Jack Powell (Canberra, so he should stay in - a small midfielder/forward), Nathan Richards (Griffith - have to see if that's in or out but hopefully it's far enough north to remain in - ruck/forward) & Alex Paech (Walla Walla - have to see if that's in or out - a KP prospect). Hopefully some other options show some worth, but given the 1000 point draft penalty, we might actually take somewhat of a back seat in the draft and just try to retain our current guys. Suspect Powell, Richards & Paech are no higher than second round picks but obviously we'll have to see how everyone goes throughout 2017.

If Richard's and Powell were in Vic playing TAC under the noses of the desktop experts they would definitly be 1st rounders, Giants to keep them quiet so they don't get bid on to early. Brendan Myers is a gun running h/b who plays tall and rolls into midfield could be the bolter as Cummins was last year

 

[Giant Strides]

If Richard's and Powell were in Vic playing TAC under the noses of the desktop experts they would definitly be 1st rounders, Giants to keep them quiet so they don't get bid on to early. Brendan Myers is a gun running h/b who plays tall and rolls into midfield could be the bolter as Cummins was last year

You are certainly entitled to your assessment, and I don't proclaim to be a draft watcher/expert, other than looking at all the reviews from actual draft watchers who post around here & other AFL sites. And as I said, we need to see how all the kids develop over this year to assess how they all rate. However, I think that calling them 'definite 1st rounders' risks overhyping them. That rating would make 4 GWS Academy kids out of the top 18 (when Brander & Spargo certainly have higher ratings) - you would recall that last year started with similar outrage over 4, and later when Perryman & Marshall emerged, then 6 GWS academy prospects in the first round. What happened? Marshall, Sproule, Mutch & Macreadie (the last originally tipped as a top 5 and possibly #1 selection) all fell away sharply, and only 1 ended up with GWS (as a rookie, too). Given that both Powell & Richards played in the Under 18 Championships last year as underagers I don't consider them to have been hidden away or kept quiet by GWS. There's no doubt that they are talented, but this year there's a lot of competition, including several South Australian prospects (when they had very few last year). I'm comfortable that my comments reflect where they have currently been rated across several different draft watcher assessments.

I am aware of Brendan Myers, and have seen some footage of him on Riverina AFL TV. He could indeed be a bolter, like Cumming in 2016, as those running qualities would appeal to GWS' (and no doubt other teams') game style. Unfortunately, I underrated Cumming last year, so possibly will underrate Myers this year.

My original comment was in relation to a question about possible GWS drafting strategy this year, so it's all very very hypothetical as this point of the year.

 

[Ralphyboy]

Well, from the tone of the news reports they are excluded from the GWS academy immediately. While there has been no confirmation, I presume that means they will not play for GWS Academy versus Swans Academy. The same would be the case for any other Albury-resident or other 'excluded-areas' GWS academites - the obvious problem being that the AFL hasn't actually decided what other areas are in and out of the GWS Academy! However, I presume that any NSW address remains valid, so they would still play for the NSW/ACT & Allies teams in the Div 2 & Div 1 championships. Brander & Spargo have enough body of work to remain in selection, but the exclusion of others would inevitably hurt their chances. A bit of a mess (the AFL specialty)!

EDIT: However, the squads have already been named so I guess it's possible that GWS will just play them anyway on the grounds that it's too late to change. It might depend on how many of the squad are actually excluded. http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/GWSGiants/Images/news images/U18 SENIOR ACADEMY SQUAD.pdf

Note, there is no NSW team in the under 18 championships. GWS, Swans, Gold Coast and Brisbane are fielding their own sides in Div 2. If Spargo is out of the GWS side then he can only play in the championships by making the Allies side. If he makes the allies side without playing in Div 2, and displaces Div 2 players who have had strong carnivals then people will get shitty.

This has the potential to be a complete mess. I think he will get to play for GWS in Div 2 on the basis of a notional split of the NSW area into Swans and GWS.

 

[Jaffa Fan]

Note, there is no NSW team in the under 18 championships. GWS, Swans, Gold Coast and Brisbane are fielding their own sides in Div 2. If Spargo is out of the GWS side then he can only play in the championships by making the Allies side. If he makes the allies side without playing in Div 2, and displaces Div 2 players who have had strong carnivals then people will get shitty.

This has the potential to be a complete mess. I think he will get to play for GWS in Div 2 on the basis of a notional split of the NSW area into Swans and GWS.

I think everything outside of a 50k radius from the Sydney CBD is now considered Victoria and they will have to play for them.

 

[Giant Strides]

Note, there is no NSW team in the under 18 championships. GWS, Swans, Gold Coast and Brisbane are fielding their own sides in Div 2. If Spargo is out of the GWS side then he can only play in the championships by making the Allies side. If he makes the allies side without playing in Div 2, and displaces Div 2 players who have had strong carnivals then people will get shitty.

This has the potential to be a complete mess. I think he will get to play for GWS in Div 2 on the basis of a notional split of the NSW area into Swans and GWS.

Ahhh, good point, I had completely forgotten that! You're right, that could be quite messy - although the weakness last year of the NT & Tasmanian sides (& presumably this year) would mean that losing Brander/Spargo brings GWS even further back into the pack. But Allies selection, yeah, that's going to be interesting.

 

[Ellie Aquitaine]

I think everything outside of a 50k radius from the Sydney CBD is now considered Victoria and they will have to play for them.

North of the Murray becomes East of the Nepean?

 

[fridgeman]

I was hoping for some contract news before round 1 but the next important game it could coincide with is the round 5 derby. plenty else to happen before then though

 

[Giant Strides]

I was hoping for some contract news before round 1 but the next important game it could coincide with is the round 5 derby. plenty else to happen before then though

I thought there might be something too, but perhaps they would prefer to announce something big before the first home game. The derby is the other likely focal point, I agree. Of course, the club has to get the signings to announce them!

 

[_GT_]

Club used try and time all re-signing announcements with key events to maximise media attention. Seems they are increasingly announcing re-signings when they occur. Player Managers seem to leak like a sieve. Given a recent drop in the media tweets on our OOC players, it is very likely that there isn't notable progress in recent weeks. Not a bad thing, not a good thing.

 

[Andre the Giant]

In the next off season our focus should be on speed through the midfield.

Due to bad luck or injury WHE, Ahern and Pickett did not work out for us and due to politics it looks like Spargo won't get to us so it is an area which will require a trade in.

We simply don't have a player like Charlie Cameron who adds so much zip and unpredictability to a team. We should be thinking about options now.

We have an inbalance in our midfield of too many tall slow players that offer the same skill sets. We may have lost the best of hem in Steele but we still have 4 or 5 of exactly the same player.

We also need a zippy small forward to add some diversity to our forward line. Teams like Adelaide and Hawthorn (Betts/Puopolo) have shown the benefits of this. Dev is super talented but he is yet to show the consistency to own this role. I suspect he might be one of the blokes that leaves at season's end.

If Dev goes I would love the club to consider moving for a trade with Nth for Kayne Turner. Ive watched a bit of him and think he's an underrated player and is tough. He would be a good fit and wouldn't cost the world.

 

[dlanod]

FWIW I felt we had a bit of focus on speed in our draft, with Cumming very quick (no pun intended), Taranto reasonably so as well, and Tiziani ok.

 

[Andre the Giant]

FWIW I felt we had a bit of focus on speed in our draft, with Cumming very quick (no pun intended), Taranto reasonably so as well, and Tiziani ok.

Yeah not sure about that, Cumming is more a half back, Taranto is not quick and Tiziani I doubt is good enough (although v early days).

The game on Sunday once again showed the lack of defensive pressure our forward line offers. A lot of their thrust emirated from moving the ball easily out of our forward line.

As much as we have the luxury of the 3 Towers as a marking threat it also exascerbates our lack of mobility which we saw the Western Bulldogs expose last year.

If we don't win the ball in the guts (which is hard without the best gatherer Cogs out) we find it hard to get the ball in to our talls. Unfortunately Shiel as flashy as he can be doesn't extract it enough.

I think we need to be rather bold in the next off season to bring in some zip across the board. We really look slow at times.

 

[Determinant]

Any chance Zac moves into the midfield more and Wilson takes over where Zac leaves off?

 

[Andre the Giant]

Any chance Zac moves into the midfield more and Wilson takes over where Zac leaves off?

I reckon if he can improve his tank that could be a winning move.

Zac is the dynamic runner missing from our midfield. He can be a very poor decision maker and can murder the ball but he is electric and if he can work out the nuances of the midfield he could be the point of difference.

I was surprised Wilson didn't play. Some of Leon's selections have been odd. I don't see why Adam Kennedy keeps getting a run.

 

[dlanod]

Yeah not sure about that, Cumming is more a half back, Taranto is not quick and Tiziani I doubt is good enough (although v early days).

I don't take junior positions as givens once they transitioned into seniors, otherwise Toby would still be an semi-effective inside mid and Tomlinson and Haynes forwards. Cumming could end up where ever we need him.

I'm not saying we can't do with more speed, but there appears to be some awareness of that need.

The game on Sunday once again showed the lack of defensive pressure our forward line offers. A lot of their thrust emirated from moving the ball easily out of our forward line.

As much as we have the luxury of the 3 Towers as a marking threat it also exascerbates our lack of mobility which we saw the Western Bulldogs expose last year.

If we don't win the ball in the guts (which is hard without the best gatherer Cogs out) we find it hard to get the ball in to our talks.

I think we need to be rather bold in the next off season to bring in some zip across the board. We really look slow at times.

I agree - I don't mind the three tall set-up, but Smith doesn't seem to have the football nous to be in the right place to crumb or chase, and Stevie J is way too slow these days. Toby's great, but I'd love one more defensively focused (but not cripplingly so, like Reid) forward down there.

I'd be half tempted to throw Zac up there and bring Wilson back in down back - it feels like we don't really lose anything in the defensive 50, but Zac could be a game changer with his speed and harassing now.

I was surprised Wilson didn't play. Some of Leon's selections have been odd. I don't see why Adam Kennedy keeps getting a run.

Adam's still our best defensive small. Playing him on Betts was a good call. Betts had a couple of moments of brilliance but he could've absolutely destroyed us if Shaw or Zac was on him, not that it mattered in the end given we lost it through the middle which I doubt was part of the gameplan.

 

[Andre the Giant]

I don't take junior positions as givens once they transitioned into seniors, otherwise Toby would still be an semi-effective inside mid and Tomlinson and Haynes forwards. Cumming could end up where ever we need him.

I'm not saying we can't do with more speed, but there appears to be some awareness of that need.



I agree - I don't mind the three tall set-up, but Smith doesn't seem to have the football nous to be in the right place to crumb or chase, and Stevie J is way too slow these days. Toby's great, but I'd love one more defensively focused (but not cripplingly so, like Reid) forward down there.

I'd be half tempted to throw Zac up there and bring Wilson back in down back - it feels like we don't really lose anything in the defensive 50, but Zac could be a game changer with his speed and harassing now.



Adam's still our best defensive small. Playing him on Betts was a good call. Betts had a couple of moments of brilliance but he could've absolutely destroyed us if Shaw or Zac was on him, not that it mattered in the end given we lost it through the middle which I doubt was part of the gameplan.

All good debate!

Will be great when we are full strength and have Lids, Whitfield and Cogs back. They are pretty formidable and will really change our set up.

The need for a small forward with strong defensive attributes is a key. Watch Kayne Turner, he is the prototype of what we require IMHO.

 

[dlanod]

Spargo would've been nice.